dreamdancer 0 #151 January 5, 2010 Quote >billvon is the one that likes corporations - but can't explain why they can > mooch with state sanctioned 'limited liability' I like good corporations and dislike bad ones. Both corporations and people can mooch, and both can limit their liability. (Google "personal bankruptcy.") I recall one skydiver who got a few credit cards and maxed them out buying gear (two rigs!) and jumps before declaring bankruptcy. He felt that since he had just gotten his SL jumpmaster rating he could justify them as a 'necessary business expense.' the difference is that corporate shareholders can't be bankrupted - if their corporation goes down billions in debt the shareholders are protected by the state. why is this? sounds like mooching to me stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #152 January 5, 2010 Quote The owner can randomly pick anyone he likes to give away the farm to after his death. That's currently allowed now anyway - though most typically want to care for their offspring as motivation to excel. you motivate them by continually giving them free gifts? - sounds like mooching to me stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwk1976 0 #153 January 5, 2010 The workers did not earn the wealth. The capitalist earned it by exploiting the workers. = The capitalist paid them less than their work was worth so that he, the capitalist, could make a profit. This skill of earning is a speciality, one that workers often do not have in their skill set. A worker should not be rewarded with the earnings of the capitalist for that was the capitalists work and his alone. The worker agreed to be exploited at a reduced wage and should bear the consequences. Or, rise in revolt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #154 January 5, 2010 Quote Quote The owner can randomly pick anyone he likes to give away the farm to after his death. That's currently allowed now anyway - though most typically want to care for their offspring as motivation to excel. you motivate them by continually giving them free gifts? - sounds like mooching to me So what? Why do you think mooching isn't Libertarian? If a parent makes a contract with his offspring to give them loadsa money then it's really no concern of yours, is it?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #155 January 5, 2010 Quote The worker agreed to be exploited at a reduced wage and should bear the consequences. Or, rise in revolt. or, insist on a libertarian karmic accounting system stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #156 January 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote The owner can randomly pick anyone he likes to give away the farm to after his death. That's currently allowed now anyway - though most typically want to care for their offspring as motivation to excel. you motivate them by continually giving them free gifts? - sounds like mooching to me So what? Why do you think mooching isn't Libertarian? If a parent makes a contract with his offspring to give them loadsa money then it's really no concern of yours, is it? except it's not a contract - it's a free gift (at least you agree it's mooching)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #157 January 5, 2010 Quoteexcept it's not a contract - it's a free gift A) Why can't a gift be it's own contract? B) Many, probably most, people put some conditions on large inheritances. Finish college and I'll leave this to you. Stay off the smack and I'll leave this to you, etc. That's a contract. Quote(at least you agree it's mooching) For the sake of argument I will otherwise we'll get nowhere. Now, for the N'th time, why do you think mooching isn't Libertarian anyway?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #158 January 5, 2010 Quote Quote except it's not a contract - it's a free gift A) Why can't a gift be it's own contract? you're just talking nonsense now (and mooching isn't libertarian - libertarians are those 'pull yourselves up by your bootstraps' sort of folks - definitely not moochers, or looters)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #159 January 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote except it's not a contract - it's a free gift A) Why can't a gift be it's own contract? you're just talking nonsense now Why? A contract is an agreement between two or more people. An agreement that one person will give another person some money is still an agreement whether there is any reciprocation demanded or not. You keep saying that Libertarianism is about contracts that people make between themselves, why do you think this type of contract is invalid? Quote (and mooching isn't libertarian - libertarians are those 'pull yourselves up by your bootstraps' sort of folks - definitely not moochers, or looters) The type of people who are attracted to Libertarianism isn't the same as what Libertarianism is. Why isn't mooching Libertarian? Any time you want to start actually explaining your opinions, then please do so...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #160 January 5, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote except it's not a contract - it's a free gift A) Why can't a gift be it's own contract? you're just talking nonsense now Why? A contract is an agreement between two or more people. An agreement that one person will give another person some money is still an agreement whether there is any reciprocation demanded or not. You keep saying that Libertarianism is about contracts that people make between themselves, why do you think this type of contract is invalid? Quote (and mooching isn't libertarian - libertarians are those 'pull yourselves up by your bootstraps' sort of folks - definitely not moochers, or looters) The type of people who are attracted to Libertarianism isn't the same as what Libertarianism is. Why isn't mooching Libertarian? Any time you want to start actually explaining your opinions, then please do so... a gift is a gift - a contract is a different beast entirely. i would like to seriously discuss libertarianism with you but you swiftly descend into semantic nonsense such as: i've explained my 'pull yourself up by the boostraps' view of libertarianism - can you explain why you think libertarianism encompasses mooching?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #161 January 5, 2010 Quotea gift is a gift - a contract is a different beast entirely. Why? In what way? Quotei would like to seriously discuss libertarianism with you Right. Y'know, I'd be more inclined to believe you if you would do more that give one line re-statements of your position. If you really do want a discussion, you'll need to start explaining your position. Quotesuch as: Such as what? Quotei've explained my 'pull yourself up by the boostraps' view of libertarianism - can you explain why you think libertarianism encompasses mooching? Libertarianism is about minimal government interference in people's lives and maximised personal freedoms for people to do whatever they choose. If that means they want to leave money to their workers, they can do that. If it means they want to leave it to their family, they can do that too. they can do whatever the hell they want.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwk1976 0 #162 January 6, 2010 To give a gift = intent to give + delivery + acceptance A contract is an offer + acceptance with consideration. Consideration basically means both parties lose and gain something which they consider of equal value. This can be for goods or services. A gift requires no consideration. It is completely one sided Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #163 January 6, 2010 QuoteTo give a gift = intent to give + delivery + acceptance A contract is an offer + acceptance with consideration. Consideration basically means both parties lose and gain something which they consider of equal value. This can be for goods or services. A gift requires no consideration. It is completely one sided And this has *what* to do with: A. Limited government interference in one's life. B. Freedom to do what one chooses.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #164 January 6, 2010 Quote Libertarianism is about minimal government interference in people's lives and maximised personal freedoms for people to do whatever they choose. If that means they want to leave money to their workers, they can do that. If it means they want to leave it to their family, they can do that too. they can do whatever the hell they want. except mooching and looting (and you're really talking about minarchism - not libertarianism)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #165 January 6, 2010 Quote Quote To give a gift = intent to give + delivery + acceptance A contract is an offer + acceptance with consideration. Consideration basically means both parties lose and gain something which they consider of equal value. This can be for goods or services. A gift requires no consideration. It is completely one sided And this has *what* to do with: A. Limited government interference in one's life. B. Freedom to do what one chooses. knowing the difference between a gift and a contract is useful for a libertarian (now you know)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #166 January 6, 2010 QuoteQuoteLibertarianism is about minimal government interference in people's lives and maximised personal freedoms for people to do whatever they choose. If that means they want to leave money to their workers, they can do that. If it means they want to leave it to their family, they can do that too. they can do whatever the hell they want. except mooching Says who?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #167 January 7, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Libertarianism is about minimal government interference in people's lives and maximised personal freedoms for people to do whatever they choose. If that means they want to leave money to their workers, they can do that. If it means they want to leave it to their family, they can do that too. they can do whatever the hell they want. except mooching Says who? true libertarians (obviously not faux libertarian moocher lovers like you)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #168 January 7, 2010 Quotetrue libertarians Who are they? Is this like the "True Christians" thing, where each group says they're the only ones who've got it right? Quote(obviously not faux libertarian moocher lovers like you) I've never identified myself as a Libertarian. Are you, though? Do you refuse to accept gifts?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #169 January 7, 2010 QuoteQuotetrue libertarians Who are they? Is this like the "True Christians" thing, where each group says they're the only ones who've got it right? Quote(obviously not faux libertarian moocher lovers like you) I've never identified myself as a Libertarian. Are you, though? Do you refuse to accept gifts? there are many, many different strands to libertarianism. i would call myself a left-libertarian. what about you?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #170 January 7, 2010 Quotethere are many, many different strands to libertarianism. i would call myself a left-libertarian. And yet you think that all of them agree with you on this? Really?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #171 January 7, 2010 what sort of libertarian are you?stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #172 January 7, 2010 Quotewhat sort of libertarian are you? How can you possibly pretend you want an actual debate if you're not even reading my posts?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #173 January 7, 2010 its ok if it's a secret (now back to karmic accounting and its role in fusing together left and right libertarian groupings) stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #174 December 21, 2010 karmic accounting - what a good idea (only a few years ahead of its time - but nearly there) stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
