How about " I am an atheist, and proud of it?

[Royd 0]

I've only been in these forums for a few days, and it always seems that the so called atheists or agnostics,are always there to play the devil's advocate. Amazing that he would choose a bunch of sorry humans to do his dirty work.
Why don't you post your own thread and boast about how nothingness has always been there to help you out in your darkest hour?
Is it Christ or his flawed followers that really pisses you people off?
I would love to see how many christians jump on to refute your veiws.

[jakee 1,260]

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so called atheists or agnostics

So called?

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Amazing that he would choose a bunch of sorry humans to do his dirty work.

Have we met?

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Why don't you post your own thread and boast about how nothingness has always been there to help you out in your darkest hour?

It would be nonsensical.

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Is it Christ or his flawed followers that really pisses you people off?

1. Doesn't piss me off (except when its brought into politics)

2. Its religion in general thats amusing, not just JC

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I would love to see how many christians jump on to refute your veiws.

There are a good few regulars who try to show us the error of our ways.

Oh and by the way, it's been done

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

Yea, we've spent most of the day b.s.ing each other over other related subjects.
The soup was beginning to stick so I thought I stir the pot.
I obviously haven't been hanging around since 2002. I'll get the hang of it all soon enough.

What time is it in the UK, and do you ever sleep?

BTW, I notice that you pick statements apart and answer those parts that make you look like you are winning the argument. The ones that put you on the spot, you seem to leave alone.
Just good fun!

[Mockingbird 0]

Royd, You have a way with words, and I'm glad you're here. Please stick around.

[shropshire 0]

<> - You really dont seem to get it do you..... Religion does not Piss some of us off... it just does nothing for us. And that, I'm sorry, is the problem with your thread title -I (for one) do not care enough to be proud (or otherwise) for a ridiculaous concept. What I try to do on these threads is try to work out why religious people of all flavours, DO CARE... It's a data collection exercise.

You go ahead and believe what you want but unless you can read minds, stop trying - ask direct questions.


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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[philh 0]

"Why don't you post your own thread and boast about how nothingness has always been there to help you out in your darkest hour?
Is it Christ or his flawed followers that really pisses you people off?
I would love to see how many christians jump on to refute your veiws.

I am happy to answer your questions.
Your first question implies that belief is there to act functionally. A belief in a god is there to get you through you darkest hour. But my (non)belief is not there to functionally improve my life but is simply based upon the lack of evidence for god, simple as that. No evidence in god, no belief in god. If that makes my darkest hour harder , so be it. In fact I think it can make your performance in your darkest hour better. I am reminded of the movie/book "Touching the Void". In it, a climber tells the story of his escape from a tragic accident. Please see this film it is amazing. Whilst trapped in a cravass with a broken leg, He decides not to lapse back into his childhood catholicism and prey for rescue. Instead he embraces his atheism and decided the only being that can help him is himself and he gets himself out of his nightmare predicament. i suggets if he sat in there and prayed he would not be here to tell the story.

Its Christs followers that piss me off. They wrote the bible. Christ himslef may have existed, he might not have. He might have said the things attributed to him, he might not have. We just dont know. so I have little opionion of him. What I have an opinion of is the bible a book not written by Chrisrt whether he lived or not.

[Royd 0]

Usually,Tony, when something does nothing for me I tend to go on to other things that I find more interesting.
Not so in your case, or do you also like stirring the pot?
It seems many people want absolute proof before they believe. That's not faith.
They could find Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat filled with petrified animal dung, and it still wouldn't make a beleiver out of a God-hater.
He'd probably say that it was put there as a hoax by Christians.
As for asking direct questions, I did that several times yesterday in the other threads.
You always dance around the hard questions like a politician, or a lawyer.

So, after this great compilation of data on why Christians [ I don't see you hammering Muslims about their radical methods of spreading their religion] what conclusion do you think you will arrive at?

[shropshire 0]

Hi Royd,
1st off... I'd love to be doing other things (weather is truely poor here at the moment and the wife has loads of jobs for me to do... which I'm pretending to avoid.. she'll get her way).

I'm not stiring (too much... this is SC tho') but I genuinely do not understand what motivates religious people.. in my mind, it defies logic.

The story of Noah, saving ALL species on Earth is clearly a complete nonsense. To start with, he never even knew that the Americas existed, so couyld never have saved species that exist there and only there and if the water covered the whole planet, that would have had to be the case).... Also, if ALL of the water on the planet was in water form (no ice , no clouds) what would be the sea level?

My questions are NOT confined to Christians... I'm asking questions of the people who write here.. In my earlier post, I said Religions of All Flavours... I'f Muslims, Hindus etc... had written here, I would have questioned them too.. I'm not picking on anyone.


Oh and ..<> - If I remember correctly, this tactic has been the preserve of Christians (re: fossils) and not the other way around..
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Nice to talk to you.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jakee 1,260]

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I don't see you hammering Muslims about their radical methods of spreading their religion

I actually do think that Islam is a 'worse' religion than Christianity. The reason that christianity is most discussed on here is that most of the religious posters are christians. If I did go and attack Islam I can only think of one regular who would join the debate.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

I was going to leave it alone, but since you took it in this direction, I would like to ask some serious questions. Not just another game of one upmanship.
Outside of communism, which is a dying philosophy,
I consider the religion of Islam to be the greatest threat to individual liberty the world has ever known.
Now, there's a theocracy!
I know that in Europe, and I believe in the UK, also, it is growing insidiously.[ I just looked the word up for the correct spelling, and the definition is perfect.]
What is anyone doing to squelch the spread?

[shropshire 0]

That's an interesting observation (and probably accurate, from my perspective) but then again if we were fundamentalist Muslims.. the growth of our religion would be seen as a good thing.... dont you think?

[trying NOT to be argumenative] but what do you think that the pre-Christians were thinking when Christianity's big boom was occuring?




P.S I took your advice (ignored the chores) and went out to the DZ & then Green Laning for a while this afternoon - thanks).
.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

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That's an interesting observation (and probably accurate, from my perspective) but then again if we were fundamentalist Muslims.. the growth of our religion would be seen as a good thing.... dont you think?

They think it's a good thing, but you can bet that they are not stacking up Qurans in their closets to hand to everyone on the street, when they decide to make their move.

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[trying NOT to be argumenative] but what do you think that the pre-Christians were thinking when Christianity's big boom was occuring?


I'm sure, by the very nature of man, that they had some type of deity, whether it was a tree, a bird , or the sun. It was something they were in awe of.

Thanks for the sensible conversation!

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[jakee 1,260]

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I consider the religion of Islam to be the greatest threat to individual liberty the world has ever known.
Now, there's a theocracy!

The religion itself - no.
The way it is interpreted by various middle eastern regimes and terrorist organisations - possibly yes.

I see Islam now (in the middle east) as being very similar to what Christianity was in Europe several hundred years ago. Devoutly religious monarchies, state sponsored persecution of anything but the offically recognised sect of Christianity, suppression of scientific discovery as heresy etc. We moved on, and in time so will they. I just hope no one does anything too stupid before then.

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What is anyone doing to squelch the spread?

I live in a free country. Until they do something illegal I'm not going to tell anyone what religions they can and can't worship.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,260]

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I'm sure, by the very nature of man, that they had some type of deity, whether it was a tree, a bird , or the sun. It was something they were in awe of.

The dominant pre-christian religions were a fair bit more sophisticated than that!

I think you may have missed the point of the question slightly. After the 'conversion' of Constantine and the adoption of christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire what do you think the believers in Jupiter, Zeus, Dis, Ammon etc thought of the waves of state sponsored missionaries coming to convert them?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

[quotThe dominant pre-christian religions were a fair bit more sophisticated than that!

e]

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I was thinking more of the Gothic tribes of central Europe.
The Apostle Paul, while in Athens, noticed that there was a deity for every possible thing, including one to the unknown God. Paul said,"I've come to declare this one to you."
By his own account, he was one of the most learned men of the time, and he also claims to have written the book of Acts. Good reading, just for reading's sake.

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[shropshire 0]

<> - You're welcome.


<>
That's certainly true (some were Pagans for example) but my point is, that Christians often (not always) converted non-believers through strength and conquest (South America for example), which is not very Christian in the Jesus model (maybe Old Testement but not New).

And this is what confuses a lot of us non-believers... The Bible appears to hold 2 contradictorary views... Old - Fire & Brimstone, Eye for an Eye : New - pacifist, Turn the other cheek.

Which is right ? The Jesus View or Fandamentalist view?

.
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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

<> - Now that is sensible, dont you think... Hedging your bets. Prooves that they were not all that primative.

And Paul self proclaiming to the the brightest man on Earth, reminds me of many deeply self obsessed people today - Arrogant - Not a good trait IMHO.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

[/quote

And this is what confuses a lot of us non-believers... The Bible appears to hold 2 contradictorary views... Old - Fire & Brimstone, Eye for an Eye : New - pacifist, Turn the other cheek

The Old Testament was given srictly to the Jews.
It is called the Book of the Law.
The rest of the world was run by emperors, kings, tyrants, so on.
The Law was given to show the people that they had no power within themselves to obey every aspect of the Law all of the time.
So, a system of sacrifices was set up to offer atonement to God for the sins of the people. Thus the term,"sacrificial lamb."
BTW, these lambs had to held by the priests and examined for any physical flaws. They had to be perfect.
This had to be done regularly because someone was always screwing up, even if they didn't know it.
Another reason was that sometime in the future, God was going to provide a once and for all sacrifice for the sins of all men.
This sacrifice had to be absolutely perfect in every aspect to get the job done.
I'm being a little silly here, but this is where Jesus stepped up to the plate and said," I'll do it."

Alot of people believe Christians should be a bunch of mamby pamby, mealy mouthed, doormats, and are upset when they are not.

I spent considerable time doing evangilism with my church, and honestly, I consider it as obnoxious as
phone salemen.
I,ve also grown weary of weekly and bi-weekly meetings. To me, it's like being stuck forever in your last year of high school.
I understand the message clearly. Let's move on down the road, already!

They say that honey will catch more flies than vinegar!

[Sockpuppet 0]

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I've only been in these forums for a few days, and it always seems that the so called atheists or agnostics,are always there to play the devil's advocate. Amazing that he would choose a bunch of sorry humans to do his dirty work.
Why don't you post your own thread and boast about how nothingness has always been there to help you out in your darkest hour?
Is it Christ or his flawed followers that really pisses you people off?
I would love to see how many christians jump on to refute your veiws.

Hmm.

I'm an agnostic...I believe in science. It you can't prove it then I'm not interested.

To be fair I hate (yes, strong word but true) church people who say "you cant prove it via science so it must be gods work". Tosh.

The bible was "invented" when people still thought the world was flat and thought an eclipse was someone eating the sun.

We proved those to be wrong. All the other stuff that is currently under "its not scientific proof so its gods work" it just stuff we havent been able to prove where it came from...but we will.

Personally I think 99% of all the worlds problems are caused by religion Christans as well as Islamic extremists.

I'd have thought being a skydiver you'd have more faith in yourself than God. If you really thought God existed why are you using parachutes? Surely he would save you?

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Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[pajarito 0]

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"you cant prove it via science so it must be gods work".

Even if you can prove it via science, it's still God's work.

[shropshire 0]

Y'think? Opinion does not equate to fact - sorry.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

[I'd have thought being a skydiver you'd have more faith in yourself than God. If you really thought God existed why are you using parachutes? Surely he would save you?
/quote]

[pajarito 0]

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Y'think? Opinion does not equate to fact - sorry.

I'm also allowed to simply post my opinion here.

[shropshire 0]

O'course you are... but that's not the issue is it.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

The problem that you describe, is with Bad Science.. Taking all science (or anything) on faith, wouldn't be at all clever would it.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome