Scoop 0 #1 December 2, 2005 I watched a film/documentary/comedy sketch - I really cant remember what it is, but it made me laugh and expanded my mind a little bit as well. It got on to the topic of pollution and how if we keep abusing our planet the world will die and it will be then end as we all know it. In the next sentance it was said - actually, the world will be just fine. Its survived ice ages, periods as a planet of water, fiery volcanic ages. A little bit of carbon dioxide/monoxide or whatever isnt going to affect things. The world around us is always evolving. It just might be that our species doesnt evolve quick enough. Why are we so up ourselves to say it will be the end of the world? It was kind of scary to think how insignificant we are in the great scheme of things but also took away some of my guilt. Yup, no more recycling from me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #2 December 2, 2005 "It was kind of scary to think how insignificant we are in the great scheme of things but also took away some of my guilt. Yup, no more recycling from me!" Pretty sure the dinosaurs thought the same way. But then they got recycled into the very substance that may cause our demise..-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #3 December 2, 2005 QuotePretty sure the dinosaurs thought the same way. But then they got recycled into the very substance that may cause our demise.. I personally like the idea that more-evolved creatures might someday be studying my bones and other remains to reconstruct how I once lived. I’m looking forward to being displayed in their museum and frightening their young children with my canine teeth and imposing glare. I wonder whether they’ll find Nylon fibers embedded in my leg bones from the innumerable Sabre slams. Finally I’ll be famous! Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #4 December 2, 2005 >Why are we so up ourselves to say it will be the end of the world? Oh, the world will continue just fine without us. Heck, at least twice, the earth was entirely covered with ice. It survived that too. The reason I think we shouldn't abuse the planet _too_ much is that we will make life miserable for ourselves and our children; we wouldn't like an iceball earth (or one that was 10 degrees hotter.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #5 December 2, 2005 So Bill, I just saw The End of Suburbia, in which they predict our world oil production is going to peak fairly soon - in the next 5-15 years, after which gas will only get more and more expensive, and will change our way of life as we know it. Basically, once the oil starts to run out, so will civilization's time. In your opinion, where in the world would you have the most advantageous position after the oil goes bye-bye, considering climate, society and a new form of local economy? you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #6 December 2, 2005 >where in the world would you have the most advantageous position >after the oil goes bye-bye . . . Physically? In an area that has a low population, a good water supply, a reasonable climate and a good mix of residential/industry/farming. If transporting crops becomes expensive, best be nearby. And water takes huge amounts of energy to pump long distances. Also, the amount of people land can "sustain" has to do with how much energy you have and how dense they are. If people live on big plots of land, then septic tanks, wells, compost piles, gardens and trash pits can work. Whereas in a place like NYC, everything has to be trucked/pumped in and out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #7 December 2, 2005 QuotePhysically? In an area that has a low population, a good water supply, a reasonable climate and a good mix of residential/industry/farming. If transporting crops becomes expensive, best be nearby. And water takes huge amounts of energy to pump long distances. Sounds like the Great Lakes states will do fine. Hooray for us, pity the sunny Southwest. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #8 December 2, 2005 QuoteSounds like the Great Lakes states will do fine. Hooray for us, pity the sunny Southwest. Suck it, we'll live on seafood, sunshine, and bikini-clad babes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #9 December 2, 2005 Doesn't it get kinda cold up there? Heating oil will be pretty scarce, as well as all other fuel sources... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #10 December 2, 2005 QuoteDoesn't it get kinda cold up there? Heating oil will be pretty scarce, as well as all other fuel sources... Lot's of stuff to burn up here, and no-one needs to wear bikinis indoors in the winter. Do you have much water in the SW when the pumping stations run out of energy?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #11 December 2, 2005 > Doesn't it get kinda cold up there? Keeping warm is the environmental issue we (as humans) have the most experience with. Add some modern technology and I'd consider it a very small concern. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #12 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteDoesn't it get kinda cold up there? Heating oil will be pretty scarce, as well as all other fuel sources... Lot's of stuff to burn up here, and no-one needs to wear bikinis indoors in the winter. Do you have much water in the SW when the pumping stations run out of energy? But how long will there be lots o' stuff if everyone is burning it? I doubt the SW would be much better either... That was kinda the point of my question: what sorts of conditions would provide the optimal "mix" in an oilless oil-driven world? How many unspoiled fresh water sources are left? How long would we have timber to burn? How would we even get around? Once the oil STARTS running dry - and we'll know it when that happens - "globalization" will reverse to "localization". People will have to truly adapt to their environments. And we got a lot of people... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #13 December 2, 2005 Quote... all other fuel sources... Er, we lead the nation in producing renewable biofuels and we have plenty of nuclear plants per population density. We should do just fine on the energy side. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #14 December 2, 2005 Quote> Doesn't it get kinda cold up there? Keeping warm is the environmental issue we (as humans) have the most experience with. Add some modern technology and I'd consider it a very small concern. Not just warmth, but light and power... do we have the capability to survive well without flipping out and killing each other? Imagine what would happen to society during a world-wide oil shortage that will never end and only get worse. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #15 December 2, 2005 QuoteEr, we lead the nation in producing renewable biofuels and we have plenty of nuclear plants per population density. We should do just fine on the energy side. The futures bright, the futures nuclear ... and dont let any damn hippies tell you otherwise! Joking aside, nuclear is definately the way forward. Not quite sure what we would do for vehicle fuel though. I guess everything would have to go electric. And there wouldnt be any plastic anymore, which would suck. Ahhh well, not in my lifetime! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #16 December 2, 2005 Quote Quote... all other fuel sources... Er, we lead the nation in producing renewable biofuels and we have plenty of nuclear plants per population density. We should do just fine on the energy side. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Considering all the things we depend on oil for - which is WAY more than just fuel for cars and power for AC - I don't think we'll be anywhere close to "just fine", but we'll be better off than many. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #17 December 2, 2005 >Not just warmth, but light and power... We don't need grid power to survive as a society (although it sure helps!) Keep in mind that in the 1900's no one had grid power. and in the 1930's many farms in the US were running on 32 volts DC power from their own windmills. They even made washing machines and well pumps that ran on that. The modern equivalent would be solar power systems (as well as windmills.) So losing 'grid power', or having it be reduced, isn't such a big deal for me. >do we have the capability to survive well without flipping out and killing >each other? We've survived worse. I think it wouldn't be a big deal, as long as we have time to deal with it. Nuclear power will replace natural gas (and perhaps coal) as the primary electric power source. Biofuels will replace oil and natural gas. >Imagine what would happen to society during a world-wide oil shortage > that will never end and only get worse. The key to surviving that, I think, is to make sure it happens gradually. If gas goes to $20 a gallon over ten years, we could probably adjust, although it would be painful. If it happens over two years our economy will collapse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #18 December 2, 2005 QuoteConsidering all the things we depend on oil for - which is WAY more than just fuel for cars and power for AC We can produce many of those things, or acceptable substitutes, from the grains grown on the vast farms here in the Great Lakes states. Our region also controls large deposits of coal and, if push comes to shove, peat which can be converted into products that are manufactured from oil at the present time. Assuming localization due to necessity ever does become reality the Great Lakes should be okay, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if we are the U.S. region best-positioned to triumph over the crisis with our lifestyle largely intact. We have abundant fresh water, renewable energy, aerable land, engineering talent and industrial infrastructure. In addition, our region collaborates with Canada in matters involving the countries’ extensive transborder commerce as well as our shared custodianship over Great Lakes water. Perhaps this interdependant relationship could give our states special access to Canada's tar sands in the event the region needed foreign oil. I might be substantially more concerned if I lived in the sunny Southwest. I mean, what will Las Vegas do to survive if it becomes impractical for people to visit there or the available fresh water supply gets choked off? LA or Phoenix? The manufacturing base just isn’t there for them to fall back on, and desalination is energy expensive. Yet people continue moving to places like these, in part to escape the “severe” seasonal weather changes that help replenish Great Lakes water. Are they expecting a New Orleans-style rescue operation if a crisis materializes? It’s interesting behavior to witness from a distance, that much is for sure. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
