The war supporters. What are our troops dying for?

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I am NOT saying Cheney IS in league, but if you think that a severence package means that all ties REALLY have been severed, well that is a little naive.

Is he then guilty before proven innocent just because of the severance?

That's the real question he's arguing, verses a statemnt that just having a previous connection automatically defines guilt of some sort.

Absolutely not. But I think it swings either way.

A former tie does not indicate wrongdoing, but a severence package does not indicate actual severed ties.

Neither are very good arguments for good or wrongdoing.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[ReBirth 0]

I don't think anyone has said he's guilty of anything other than the appearance of impropriety. And of that, he IS guilty.

[rehmwa 2]

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guilty of anything other than the appearance of impropriety

Get a rope

maybe we should also just throw ugly people in jail for no reason - I mean, they 'appear' rather unsavory

nuts

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

Who's trying to hang him? All I said was he has the appearance of impropriety. You take an oil company executive, put him in a cabinet with other former oil company executives, during a time when the issues around oil are central to huge foreign and domestic policy issues...and give him a bunch of money from an oil company....the appearance is there.

He could have avoided it by refusing the severance package, or refusing the nomination. He didn't, for good or ill, but you can't deny that it bears scrutiny.

[billvon 2,463]

>If you've got an accusation to make, rather than innuendo, then
>make it and provide proof.

I made it; proof is readily available online. Cheney is getting paid by a company that the administration is awarding contracts to. You've admitted as much yourself; time to accept it and move on.

[pirana 0]

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Before the invasion, I didn't support the war.

I didn't believe there were terrorists in Iraq, and I didn't believe that Sadam had WMDs.

Now though, well - now there ARE terrorists in Iraq, to the degree that Iraq is really the new Afghanistan. Iraq is now the worldwide center of terrorism.

Once the Iraq terrorists tire of blowing up Iraqis, they'll start blowing up westerners. Terrorists in Iraq must be dealt with.

Invading Iraq was one of the stupidest moves America has done in decades. However, the instant they invaded Iraq I became a supporter of the war. America can not leave Iraq until Iraq is safe and stable.

In a sense, America made the mess - America must clean it up.

_Am

Quite the quandry. There was no significant terrorist activity in Iraq that was a threat to the US under Hussein. But he was an easy target, like stepping on a bug. And now that we have exterminated the big bad bug, all the little bugs have come out of the woodwork and are a threat to us. Now there is terrorist activity in Iraq that is a threat to us. We started a war that created a problem that causes us to not be able to have not started the war to begin with.

It's just a step to the right
And do the Bush-warp twist
And put your hands on your hips
To do the pelvic thrust

I would think that after the 3rd or 4th revision of their explanation of why we needed to attack Iraq most would no longer buy into their BS. But there is no logic to blind loyalty.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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obviosely things have changed and it is near enough like that, but would they really want to go in and suffer this INTENTIONALLY?

i doubt it. They probably thought it would be ok.

But as we can see, it isn;t. agreed on that.

And now you've exposed the incompetence of this administration. Of course they didn't think it would be like this. However, most of the top brass at the pentagon WARNED them it would be like this, but they ignored them. No idea that doesn't come from themselves is ever considered by them to have any validity. Personally, I don't see that as a good leadership quality.

All the experts did warn them, including Colin Powell. His sense of loyalty and being a team player kept him from fighting with all he had; and he eventually aquiesced. But he and most other military experts had this pegged perfectly. Which is why the Bush inner circle tightened and cut them out of the discussions and decision-making process. They did not want to hear it. Concieted egotistical bastards.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I think that the real reason was because we (UK/US etc) see Iraq as a major threat. A developing country that was lead by a vicious dictator that was responsible for horrible events.

I think it was neccesary for him to be taken out, one way or another. The reasons given werent neccesarily correct but the ultimate conclusion is what was needed.

And while are troops, who are probably mostly my age or younger are over there. Im gonna support them. Last thing they need in situations like that is returning and everyone telling them what they are fighting for is wrong

There are a boatload of other countries and dictators that fit that bill. Should we just start invading them all?

How exactly are all the people with those ribbon-shaped magnets supporting our troops? How do you support them - other than the taxes you pay - for which you have no choice but to pay?

Maybe just knowing they are there dying, and feeling it is OK for them to do so just for the sake of a little cheaper prices per barrel is a form of support.

"I giveth thee permission to die for the sake of cheaper gasoline." There, now I support the troops too.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley