Near Aircraft Emergency

[pchapman 261]

I'm trying to summarize some of the types of accidents being discussed:

One category is accidents that actually kill skydivers on flights where they planned to jump. I guess that's what the USPA tends to report on.

That category is part of a larger category, which are all accidents (fatal to skydivers or not) involving flights where skydivers planned to jump from the aircraft. These are actual jump operation accidents.

Then there's the category of accidents involving skydiving industry airplanes and pilots in any other way -- such as ferry flights. These may not usually kill skydivers, but skydiving operators still care if their planes crash. Jumpers aren't going to be as directly worried about such accidents, but they still are indirectly affected by the loss of pilots and airframes and insurance losses. And they should be concerned if the flight was brought down by maintenance or piloting issues that could well have happened on a jump flight instead.

With different types and levels of skydiving related aircraft accidents, we may simply need to define different categories of such accidents. So we won't all agree on what should be included in one big aircraft accident category simply called "skydiving accidents".

===

On a different subtopic, another example of a jump plane flying into a mountain was the case of the small Cessna in British Columbia a few years back. On the descent after dropping jumpers, in an area of unsettled weather & cumulogranite, the plane disappeared. The crash site wasn't found for many months. While it was "not my problem" for the jumpers who had already jumped, I can't imagine the situation was much fun for anyone at the small DZ where it happened.

[tombuch 0]

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You've missed my point AND I KNOW it is MY fault for making it so badly in the beginning, but you've missed my point none-the-less. No one, not even me, is saying better safety, pilot training & maintenance, is a bad thing. However, just because the, "Its for Safety Sake" card is placed on something doesn't mean it should be beyond reproach, scrutiny or critique is what I'm trying to say.

I think the point DiverDriver is making is that we should look at all incidents involving jump planes even if jumpers are not on board at the time, because those incidents speak to the experience, training, and judgment of the pilots and owner/operators. When we understand how often these pilots and operations have accidents relative to other GA activity, it becomes clear that we need to do a better job of managing the human element of the risk equation.

I hold an FAA Commercial Pilot certificate in single and multi-engine airplanes, and am often surprised at poor judgment displayed by jump pilots. I'm amazed (and thankful) our airplanes aren't crashing more often.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[jdatc 0]

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There should be a written test on file at the DZ (or maybe FAA office) ./. Can't see the harm here.

Sure.... the FAA is always there to help out....

And while they are at it, maybe they could add a couple more lines in to the FAR's..... Shoot, being that aviation in the US is ridiculously under regulated.....

I would not invite the FAA to help out with this. Seems like something best handled by the USPA......

Which section is your favorite?

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

[diverdriver 5]

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Seems like something best handled by the USPA......

Which section is your favorite?

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Seems like. But they won't. Why? Because it's the United States PARACHUTE Association. I have tried to get interest in USPA higher ups to make jump pilot training mandatory and standard to some degree but the response I get is "planes and pilots come under the FAAs jurisdiction." When I talk to individual FAA inspectors about the idea I get "Skydiving is self regulated." And thus, we are left with no improvement across the industry.

Zig, I agree that we should focus on the 3-5% of operators having accidents. Can you identify which operator will have one ball up in the trees next? I sure can't. I sure can't spend my time going from DZ to DZ doing inspections. I am one person. This is a system problem.

I'll make one last comment about the jump plane accidents in regards to the King Air at Salt Lake. You say it doesn't have anything to do with skydiving. I say it does since it was a jump plane going between two dropzones for the purpose of skydiving. It was equiped for skydiving. NOT for IFR flying. And by the way, the pilot tried to fly a MADE UP APPROACH!! The weather conditions at the field were reported as one quarter mile visibility with heavy snow. What skydiving plane do you know of have equipement and training to fly in those Wx condidtions? Not any I know of. That accident had everything to do with skydiving.

I take each report and look it individually. I really do. I ponder it before listing it. I have reports that I never post or pursue due to the circumstance. I am not sitting behind my keyboard salivating at the next post I can make. Having lost so many friends over the years due to jump plane accidents alone it twists my gut each time I see something new. Will we ever reach zero accidents? Nope. Well, if we never flew again with jumpers then maybe... That isn't realistic. But I tell you we should not have another 182 run out of gas. We should not have Twin Otters hitting mock-ups doing fly-bys with a full load on board. We should not have pilots who do not know how to recover from a stall spin (or better yet prevent getting into a stall to begin with). This takes education. This takes an admission by the industry to accept that we need to do better.

March is the first spike month of the year. I pray I have nothing to do.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

UNCLE!


... good luck with your crusade Ddriver... its a good one... but I hope the cure doesn't wind up being worse then the disease.