mcordell 2 #1 October 12, 2014 So I'm trying to help someone out with pack volume for a few canopies. He currently has a manta (old f-111, not the zp) packed in his javelin and plans to replace it with a navigator 280 because he found a great deal on it. The concern is, he wants to order a new container and put the navigator in it for now and eventually put in a Sabre 2 260. He called PD and they refused to give him any idea of a pack volume and it's not on the PIA chart I found. I assume with the nav being a hybrid it is easy enough to go down one size to an all zp without a lot of change in pack volume but when one size is a 280 to a 260 you are talking about a lot of material. I have the pack volumes for both the manta and the navigator but does anyone have a pack volume for the sabre 2? PD said they can't give him any idea of the pack volume and he would have to call his container manufacturer to get that information. It doesn't make much sense to me to tell people to call a different company for information on your product but whatever.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #2 October 12, 2014 Firstly, PD does have a relative answer, right on their website here : http://www.performancedesigns.com/packingchart.aspx secondly, it's not only the material that changes the overall bulk (i.e. volume). There's also the lines. There's a noticeable difference in bulk between dacron and spectra linesset for a 260 sq ft canopy. good luck ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #3 October 12, 2014 Yea I have looked at that chart. It means nothing to me since I can't figure out how a chart that says a sabre 2 260 is comparable in size to another canopy from the same manufacturer is supposed to be helpful without quantifying that size in some way. I want to know the pack volume. I don't want to know that canopy A is slightly larger than canopy b and comparable to canopy c but smaller than canopy d when none of those variables have an associated pack volume. Thanks for the link, I appreciate you trying to help me figure it out. I would rather have an actual pack volume like most other manufacturers have no problem providing. Also I'm aware of the line difference, it won't matter since the canopies will be lined with spectra.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #4 October 12, 2014 My understanding is that the reason behind PD's reluctanse to provide pack volumes is that those values are not absolute from canopy to canopy. At times, the mill manufactured the fabric that packs thicker (Triathlons had that problem). The only true way to provide exact pack volume is if all the canopies were compressed using the same method, using the same atmospheric conditions, and you were guaranteed that they will always be built using the same construction techniques and same materials. And that, as well all know, will never happen. The PIA chart from awhile back (The TS-104.16 PIA canopy volume study) shows the Raven4 DOM 12/1986 having a pack volume of 570 cubic inches, while the same canopy, with the same type of lines DOM 03/1985 has a volume of 506 cubic inches. If you want to be 100% certain - get both canopies, and attempt to pack both in the same size dbag. And if that's too much work, then don't complain on the internet about the manufacturer unwilling to do it for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #5 October 12, 2014 Hmmm.....Ok I see. Well several other canopy manufacturers do provide that data for their canopies. I guess they just aren't as awesome as PD. All hail PD and their superiority I guess. Based on that reasoning for PD not giving a pack volume then it really doesn't make sense for them to provide a chart comparing the pack volume to other canopies they manufacture since there's no telling what size any given canopy will be. I get that there is variance from one to another but there's really no reason not to have at least a range or an average number...something to start with. I didn't come here to complain about PD, I came here to ask a question and hope someone had an answer. You are right though. I will tell him to spend thousands of dollars on two canopies and a new rig to see if we can pack them both into the same d-bag. Seems like a logical experiment.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
