Radical (or mainstream?) Islamic hatred

[billvon 2,435]

>They do want to hurt Jews (any Jews), and do want to annihilate the
> State of Israel.

Right, and all blacks are shiftless and lazy. And people could prove it! Look at all those blacks just standing on the corner not working.

It took us years to get over that kind of thinking; I hope it won't take as long with this latest form of racism.

[sundevil777 94]

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ok lets get this straight, what your not saying is that israel is a US base in the middle east, right once we have got that out of the way lets focus on the shite you have portrayed

Israel is an ally. A very close one, yes. The US has military bases in foreign countries in many parts of the world, so does that make Germany, Japan, and others 'US bases'? Israel does not always follow the advice of the US administration. So we have hardly 'got that out of the way' unless you have something else to reinforce your conclusion.

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Your US tax dollars never have funded the PA ok?!

Wrong!

US tax dollars to PA

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Your US dollars have made Israel the biggest super power in the region, by no accident, if you think somehow that Israel is some poor country on the outer think again and look at the loans they are recieving from the US.

Of course it is easy to conclude that I am happy about Israel being the biggest superpower in the region. If this were not true, they would not exist. You might as well complain about the US being the biggest superpower on the planet, and that we should not be so capable of defending our freedom. Actually, some peaceniks do complain that the world would be better if we were not the only superpower, so you're not alone.

Earlier in this thread I referenced an article that describes how the US fought against Israel getting nuclear weapons with the assistance of France.

OK, Israel is not 'poor'. We can agree on that.

Lots of countries receive foreign aid (grants, loans, loan guarantees) from the US. They are the lone democracy in the region surrounded by those with the objective to destroy them.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

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>They do want to hurt Jews (any Jews), and do want to annihilate the
> State of Israel.

Right, and all blacks are shiftless and lazy. And people could prove it! Look at all those blacks just standing on the corner not working.

It took us years to get over that kind of thinking; I hope it won't take as long with this latest form of racism.

OK, their leadership wants exactly that. So I will be more specific to say that the PA wants to hurt Jews (any Jews), and do want to annihilate the State of Israel. Even though Arafat election was not elected in a free election, he has very strong support among his people. I criticize them for their actions/policy, not for their ethnic/racial category.

I hardly think this is racism. This is criticism of the policy and actions of a PA leadership and organizations such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, and others who lead their followers to do horrible things. Criticizing the party of that little corporal from Austria should not be considered racism against Germans (notice I didn't say N*zi ). There is a huge difference.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,435]

>So I will be more specific to say that the PA wants to hurt Jews (any
>Jews), and do want to annihilate the State of Israel.

Now on that I agree. The PA wants to annhiliate Israel; Israel wants to destroy the PA. Two "countries" essentially at war. That's very different than saying all jews want to kill arabs or all arabs are bloodthirsty killers. If the schoolbook had said that the PA was hostile, arrogant etc instead of saying that Arabs were hostile and arrogant I wouldn't have a problem with that, either.

[sundevil777 94]

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As long as we teach hate and racism, the killing will continue. Arabs will teach their children that we hate them, and they will be correct. If you want that - then by all means, try to get people to hate arabs as much as you do. Perhaps in 20 years we can have the kind of "peace" that Israel now has with the Palestinians.

What will not promote peace:

1) Being fooled by Arafat that the Palestinians are in their situation only because of their oppresion by Israel.
2) Thinking that simply deciding to be nice to the current PA leadership will get them to really, honestly, seek peace.

I don't want to promote the hatred of Arabs as you imply. I do think the hatred of the policies and actions to which the PA subscribe is justified.

These same priciples apply to the war on terrorism in which we are currently engaged.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

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Israel wants to destroy the PA.

I think it more correct to say that Israel is quite willing to live in peace with their Arab neighbors (current state of affairs with some of them for quite a while now), but they do not believe the current PA leadership will ever seek that peace.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,435]

>I think it more correct to say that Israel is quite willing to live in
> peace with their Arab neighbors . . .

Except for their policy of assassinating the other side's leaders. In June they tried to assassinate Rantisi, but instead killed a man, a woman and the woman's daugter. That's about as far from living in peace as I can imagine. "Yeah, sorry about that. We were trying to kill one of your leaders, but we killed a little girl instead. But we don't hate you; it's all for peace."

So the PA took revenge. And Israel took revenge against _them_ by launching another rocket attack. And the PA blew up another bus. And both sides can point to the latest attack and say "We're not violent, we're just defending ourselves against those bloody murders who kill (women and children with their rockets) (13 people in a bus.)"

And it will continue until _both_ sides are willing to stop. That takes cooperation. As long as Israel sees the problem as a situation that the Palestinians must comply with or die, then they will continue to kill Palestinians. As long as Hamas continues to take revenge upon revenge upon revenge, buses will continue to get blown up. It will take both sides to stop this war.

[sundevil777 94]

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>I think it more correct to say that Israel is quite willing to live in
> peace with their Arab neighbors . . .

Except for their policy of assassinating the other side's leaders. In June they tried to assassinate Rantisi, but instead killed a man, a woman and the woman's daugter. That's about as far from living in peace as I can imagine.

Exactly, they tried to kill a member of the terrorist leadership. I think this is justified. How does this prove they are not willing to live in peace with their Arab neighbors.

We tried to assassinate Saddam, he was proving to himself that he had a mole, had the suspected mole arrange a meeting at a restaraunt (and snuck out the back). We got word of it and blew the place up 10-15 minutes after he arrived/left. Do you think we should only try to kill him if we can be sure of no civilian casualties.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

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So the PA took revenge. And Israel took revenge against _them_ ...And it will continue until _both_ sides are willing to stop...It will take both sides to stop this war.

Yes, unless one side achieves military victory (not at all likely), they both must decide to not have the last revenge.

I think that neither Arafat or Sharon are the leaders that will be able to find peace. There is just too much baggage for both of them. The newest efforts by some of the previous negotiators (against the will of both sides' leaders) is encouraging. I think there is reason to be optimistic, but primarily I think the Palestinians need leadership like Egypt had with Sadat in the late 70's. He was courageous, and was wise enough to truly seek peace.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[gmanpilot 0]

Or we can stop teaching hatred, and realize that terrorists are terrorists, not arabs.***

I have not read thiw whole thread, so this point may have already been made.The root causes of terrorism are terrorists, period. It sounds simple, but it is not. They are pimps with an agenda, and they have not come to play. Here is a nice selection from the opening page of the Al Qaeda Training Manual:

"The confrontation we are calling for with the apostate regimes does not know Socratic debates..., Platonic ideals..., nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assination, bombing, and destruction, and the diplomacy of the cannon and the machine gun."

Violent fanatics who only know fanatical violence.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[sundevil777 94]

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Here is a nice selection from the opening page of the Al Qaeda Training Manual:

Thank you for making me think to find it.

Please read this and try to hold on to the belief that we can fix this, if only we had the right diplomats.

Al Qaeda Training Manual

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[SkydiverRick 0]

We all know that if we completely isolate ourselves from the middle east it won't be an issue anymore..

[billvon 2,435]

>Please read this and try to hold on to the belief that we can fix this,
> if only we had the right diplomats.

I got the opposite, actually. If we play by their rules, and meet killing with killing, tens of thousands will be driven to read that book - and we cannot stop tens of thousands of terrorists who are happy to die to hurt us. How will you protect yourself and your family from ten thousand terrorists willing to drive a van full of explosives into your driveway and detonate it? The only way we can win in the long run is to give people no reason to hate us so much that that book starts to make sense to them.

Turn it around. Before 9/11, did many americans hate arabs? How about after 9/11? What changed? Did arabs change, or did our perception of the world change? Do we dislike arabs more or less, as a nation, because a handful of arab terrorists killed 3000 innocent americans?

Well, they have feelings very similar to ours. We just killed thousands of innocent arabs. To our credit, we tried not to - but that's hard to explain to a man with a dead wife and kids. Perhaps with time, if we use those diplomats you scorn instead of cluster bombs, they'll realize that we're not really out to kill them and their families. And only then will they ignore the Al Qaeda Training Manual.

[captainpooby 0]

It is. So is murdering doctors, but that doesn't mean all christians belong to the army of god and kill doctors - just as not all (or even most) arabs are terrorists.

It seems to me there is a never ending supply of muslims to perform suicide bombings but the number of Christians that murder abortion doctors
I can count on my hands. At least the christian murderers try to target the guilty(in their minds). The muslims target women and children in markets, restaurants, busses and nightclubs.
Give me a break.
Name five abortion doctor killers.
I can name 19 homicide bombers.

[gmanpilot 0]

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If we play by their rules, and meet killing with killing, tens of thousands will be driven to read that book - and we cannot stop tens of thousands of terrorists who are happy to die to hurt us.

The point is that they want to kill us simply because we exist. Not because we support Isreal, or because we defend ourselves. We are the unbelievers. They will not stop until we recognize out own fitness for destruction. Tens of thousands have already read that manual, and are willing to kill you just because you value your liberty.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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At least the christian murderers try to target the guilty(in their minds). The muslims target women and children in markets, restaurants, busses and nightclubs.

A) Not sure I'm on board with your rationalizing some murders as better than others, but:

B) I'm pretty certain that muslim extremists are targeting people who are guilty in their minds as well.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[captainpooby 0]

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At least the christian murderers try to target the guilty(in their minds). The muslims target women and children in markets, restaurants, busses and nightclubs.

A) Not sure I'm on board with your rationalizing some murders as better than others, but:

B) I'm pretty certain that muslim extremists are targeting people who are guilty in their minds as well.

I was pointing out absurdity.