AAD's not required but recommended.

[erdnarob 1]

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I like very much your attitude about getting knowledgeable about the equipment you are jumping including AAD. But, are you really aware of the firing parameters of your AAD?

Here are few questions for you and everybody else (I am sincere here and not trying to put anybody down and this is for the benefit of all):

1) if you are in an upright position because your main parachute is in the process of deployment and you are low (long swivel...), at what altitude and speed a Cypres and a Vigil will fire if you go thru the firing altitude ?

2) You have an airplane emergency at say 1300 feet (that happens generally soon after take off), in a hurry you hit the airplane door frame and get unconscious, how the AADs, Cypres, Vigil or Argus will handle that kind of situation?

3) Do you know the 7 parameters of the Cypres?

For those who always open at 3500 feet, congratulations but in some circumstances are you sure you will always be able to do it?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[banesanura 1]

*um I have no freaking clue*

This is a good question for my instructor/coach!

Best Girl Scout Ever.

[NWFlyer 2]

Good questions, and a nice additional level of detail to consider... and prompted me to RTFM again, which I hadn't in a while.

1) if you are in an upright position because your main parachute is in the process of deployment and you are low (long swivel...), at what altitude and speed a Cypres and a Vigil will fire if you go thru the firing altitude ?

If my Vigil (set in Pro mode) still registers me at being at a speed greater than 78mph at 840 ft (snivelly canopy or not), it will fire.

2) You have an airplane emergency at say 1300 feet (that happens generally soon after take off), in a hurry you hit the airplane door frame and get unconscious, how the AADs, Cypres, Vigil or Argus will handle that kind of situation?

I'm likely to get a canopy over my head since the Vigil goes into active mode (arms itself) at 150 feet.

3) Do you know the 7 parameters of the Cypres?

No, but I own a Vigil.

For those who always open at 3500 feet, congratulations but in some circumstances are you sure you will always be able to do it?

I don't always throw out at 3500. I've started participating in larger formations where lower pulls are expected depending on where you are in the breakoff sequence, so I have pulled considerably lower than 3500. But I know the opening characteristics of my main and its level of consistency to how low I could go before I feel I need to go straight to silver before I risk a two out.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[erdnarob 1]

Hi NWflyer, congtatulations you have the best AAD ie. a Vigil. I own a Vigil II but I had a Vigil I before which is now in a student rig on mode STUDENT. Thanks for the 3 modes available at will which can be chosen from the device menu.

1) if in an upright position in PRO mode and falling at 78 MPH or more (when the main opens for instance) your Vigil will fire at 1100 feet, the Cypres will fire at 1010 feet.

Why: When you fall flat on your belly, there is a differential pressure between your chest and your back equivalent to 260 feet due to the partial vacuum or burble in your back. That means the atmospheric pressure in your back is weaker than the atmospheric pressure on your chest. Therefore provided you fall at 78 MPH or more, when you are actually at 840 feet (on your belly) with the Vigil in PRO mode (750 feet for the Cypres in EXPERT mode) the Vigil will fire as mentioned in the manual. But at that very moment, the pressure in your back is weaker and that means that the equivalent altitude is 260 feet more (more altitude = less atmospheric pressure) and then the Vigil in your back reads 840 + 260 feet = 1100 feet. In other words, the Vigil in PRO mode (provided you fall at 78 MPH or more) is set to fire when it reads in your back a pressure or an altitude equivalent to 1100 feet. When on your belly and the Vigil "feels" 1100 feet in your back, you are actually at 840 feet. When in upright position there is no more differential pressure between chest and back therefore the Vigil will fire when "feeling" 1100 feet and in this very case you are actually at 1100 feet.
For the Cypres... same stuff. The Cypres will fire when it "feels" 1010 feet. If you are on your belly, your actual altitude will be 750 feet or 1010 -260= 750 feet. In an upright position with a Cypres (provided you falls at 78 MPH or more) it will fire at 1010 feet since there is no differential pressure between chest and back.
Note: 260 feet is the differential pressure between chest and back when falling on your belly at terminal speed provided your main is still in its container otherwise the aerodynamics changes.

2) You are right, the Vigil get cocked (ready for firing) at 150 feet therefore bailing out unconscious at 1300 feet, your Vigil will open your reserve. The Cypres WILL NOT since it gets cocked provided you reach an altitude of 1500 feet first.

3) for the Cypres there is a parameter for the pressure (altitude) and one for the speed (rate of change of pressure versus time) and the 5 other parameters are...SECRET. Those words are exactely what Cliff Schmucker president of Airtec USA or SSK wrote few years ago in SKYDIVING MAGAZINE.

At the time I answered that as a pilot I had to know all parameters of my airplane in order to make a better decision in case of emergency. As a skydiver with some experience I need to know all the parameters of my AAD for a better decision in an emergency situation and that's why I chose a Vigil since the Vigil manufacturer has a more transparent approach about its AAD.
BYW, I am not a Vigil sale representative and I am not paid by Vigil either.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

NWflyer, you are a very wise lady, you are right. We cannot always pull at a specific altitude like someone mentioned it (3500 feet). When on a big way you pull when you are told to do it (at the dirt dive) and provided nobody is above you until a certain limit. Here is a story to illustrate the opening altitude and a Vigil firing:
I was on a big way camp at Perris Valley doing 40 way formations when I was put in my not so confortable zone. They changed me from a zipper attached on the base to an outside loop with 4 girls (I am a big guy). I did it docking last on the 40 way completed at my very limit of low speed (thanks to my jumpsuit with some material under the arms) but when at 5500 feet I had to track away for 20 seconds, I lost my "wings" because of the track position and started sinking with respect to the girls of my loop tracking in the same quadrant. I checked above me 3 times and the girls were still there. Finally taking care too much of the girls (maybe I am a gentleman) I sort of forgot my altitude and when I heard my beeper with a continuous alarm I pulled. My main parachute was opening when my Vigil fired my reserve; I was in an upright position. That was a low pull. Since I have the Vigil interface and software I downloaded my Vigil data and found out that my Vigil had fired at 1099 feet instead of 1100 feet (not too bad after all). I had a beautiful biplane which I chose to land without releasing the brakes of my reserve. My canopy was a Sabre 2-170 and the reserve was a PD 160. I asked questions to Vigil manufacturer and I had all the explanations I had requested. I am a rigger and technically oriented as you can see.

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Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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For those who always open at 3500 feet, congratulations but in some circumstances are you sure you will always be able to do it?

Damn! We used to break off 4-way at that altitude back in the day!

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I sort of forgot my altitude and when I heard my beeper with a continuous alarm I pulled

Anyway, question, why set the flat-line so low on your audible that it only serves to inform you that your AAD is within milliseconds to firing and/or you should go straight to your reserve?

[erdnarob 1]

That beeper is a TIMEOUT and the flat line alarm is at 1500 and factory set, same for the double frequency alarm at 2500 that cannot be chosen either, only the first alarm can (between 3000 and 12000 by increments of 500 feet). My Sabre 2-170 opened on an average of 340 feet (average on 10 jumps). After downloading the data from my Vigil I and interpreting the altitude-time graph, I could evaluate that I pulled at 1377 feet. Take 340 less for deployment and that gives you 1037 feet. As to confirm that figure, my Protrack gaves me a opening altitude of a 1000 feet (Protrack and Vigil parameters are not exactely the same for the opening altitude). My main was out and so my reserve. Vigil manufacturer told me after seeing my data that if I had pulled 1/8 of a second before there wouldn't be any firing. I was just at the limit.
I still use that TIMEOUT and I like it because it is louder than the Protrack. Too bad the Timeout is no more in production.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[jwynne 0]

I keep my flarline set at 1500 feet. For me, it's the signal that if I haven't pitched already I should be reaching for my reserve. I don't want my flatline to alarm at a normal pull altitude. I don't want to hear it on routine jumps. If I hear it it means I'm way too low and even if I'm there due to a tracking conflict or problem on breakoff, it's time to take my chances on a colision and pull. I've had my flat line alarm occassionally, but so far I've had a main already opening.

[skypuppy 1]

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>>No it was not at Quincy, but that's all I can remember
Tom died somewhere south of the boarder, South America, I think, or maybe Mexico . . .

NickD

Panama. It was a small rw instruction jump - one guy went low, and as Tom tracked off the guy opened under him. Piras' knees caught the leading edge of his canopy and his head hit the guys knee. Supposedly he regained consciousness and pulled silver before hitting the ground, but too low.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone