hobie331 0 #1 February 4, 2007 I recently acquired a Stiletto 170 with zero jumps. It was part of a package deal and I planned on selling it. I currently jump a Sabre2 170. I have a little over 260 jumps with about 40 on the Sabre2 and the previous 90-100 on a Sabre 170. Wing load is 1.25. I have read that the Sabre and Stiletto are similar in many ways with the Stiletto having a flatter glide and more responsive in the toggles. I consider myself a conservative canopy pilot at this time but would like to speed things up a bit without getting to much into swooping, if that makes sense. My reason for this is that I don't feel that I get enough jumps per year to remain really current at more aggressive piloting(120-130/year). My question is this. Would I find any benefits in keeping the Stiletto as I progress in abilities. Also, many canopies suggest specific loadings to get specific benefits, at my loading would I see benefits. I would appreciate advice from experienced people who jump or have jumped Stilettos. Thanks. It's a gift, I don't try to explain it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 February 4, 2007 You want to speed things up, use the front risers on your Sabre2. Sell the stiletto. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2cmyzx 0 #3 February 5, 2007 QuoteYou want to speed things up, use the front risers on your Sabre2. Sell the stiletto. That's great advice in my opinion too! I put about 2-300 jumps on a Sabre2 150 and then demo'd a stiletto 150 and found the one that I demo'd to be much more ground hungry than my Sabre2. The only thing I really noticed was that the Stiletto turned way faster in the air. In my opinion the Sabre2 opens softer and performs with front risers just as well or better than the Stiletto! Hey but thats just my experience with both! Fly them and decide for yourself, you may like the Stiletto better! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites seal_S49 0 #4 February 6, 2007 The only way you're really gonna know is to jump the Stiletto. I'd put in my $.02 on how well the Stiletto performs (ground hungry?!), but instead I suggest you ignore ALL the opinions you read here and get some real experience. If I believed everything I read, I'd be trading my Stiletto for a Saber 2. (not likely!) BTW, after you're proficient w/ front riser maneuvers under the Saber 2, try them w/ the Stiletto for some real fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hobie331 0 #5 February 6, 2007 At least I'm getting the kind of advice I had hoped for. After the last two posts and also listening to other experienced pilots discuss canopies I have to wonder?, can you have two different canopies of same size and make yet have slightly different flight characteristics? Or, can things like a canopy being "ground hungry" be strictly an interpretation of the pilot? It's a gift, I don't try to explain it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #6 February 6, 2007 QuoteAt least I'm getting the kind of advice I had hoped for. After the last two posts and also listening to other experienced pilots discuss canopies I have to wonder?, can you have two different canopies of same size and make yet have slightly different flight characteristics? Or, can things like a canopy being "ground hungry" be strictly an interpretation of the pilot? People's judgements are all relative and we don't all agree on how terms are defined. Canopies of the same size+model that are in trim fly pretty close although steering line shrinkage can make one seem to require less control input; but it's almost all perspective. The Stiletto is more sensitive to control input than most other canopies at the same wing loading. Maximum turn rate is high but no too out of line for the performance class. Requiring less control input to reach a maximum rate turn leads some people to call the Stiletto ground hungry. Definately makes it more fun to fly - I'd jump a Stiletto over an Omega, Spectre, Safire, or Crossfire for this reason. I haven't gotten arround to trying a Sabre2. Without control input following a speed inducing manuever it will achieve completely level flight which more modern swooping canopies will not. It will do so in less altitude than most more modern designs of the same performance class and wing loading . For this reason I wouldn't consider it to be ground hungry compared to a Crossfire, Samurai, or FX. The Stiletto is trimmed very flat. You don't need any toggle or riser input to get back from long spots. This may lead you to believe its not ground hungry. The Samurai is trimmed steeper, although it flattens out if you spread the rear risers and I wouldn't consider it ground hungry either. It opens faster than many more modern designs but not briskly like a Sabre or Monarch. I think the Stiletto and Samurai open about right - comfortably without loosing too much altitude. The Spectre, Crossfire, and FX waste altitude that would be better used tracking or getting back from a longer spot. The Sabre (not 2) and Stiletto aren't much alike beyond both being made of ZP and having a PD label on the tail. Pretty much you just have to try it. If you're not competing at a high level, how a given canopy suits you is going to be much more important than how its performance with an expert pilot is assessed with a tape measure. At the very least you need input on how it compares to a canopy you're familiar with. It used to be that pretty much every experienced skydiver had jumped a Sabre (first popular ZP canopy in the US) and Stiletto (first popular elliptical in the US) but there are many more choices now. I put about 600 jumps on my Stiletto 120 at wing loadings between 1.6 and 1.7 pounds/square foot; about 300 on my Samurai 105 at similar wingloadings; and also own a Monarch 135 which is about like an original Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites seal_S49 0 #7 February 6, 2007 QuotePretty much you just have to try it. Now there's a good answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bwilling 0 #8 February 7, 2007 QuoteThe Sabre (not 2) and Stiletto aren't much alike beyond both being made of ZP and having a PD label on the tail. Very true of even the Sabre 2, they're completely different plan forms, as illustrated in the attachment that was made from PD provided line trim charts available on their website. "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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seal_S49 0 #4 February 6, 2007 The only way you're really gonna know is to jump the Stiletto. I'd put in my $.02 on how well the Stiletto performs (ground hungry?!), but instead I suggest you ignore ALL the opinions you read here and get some real experience. If I believed everything I read, I'd be trading my Stiletto for a Saber 2. (not likely!) BTW, after you're proficient w/ front riser maneuvers under the Saber 2, try them w/ the Stiletto for some real fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobie331 0 #5 February 6, 2007 At least I'm getting the kind of advice I had hoped for. After the last two posts and also listening to other experienced pilots discuss canopies I have to wonder?, can you have two different canopies of same size and make yet have slightly different flight characteristics? Or, can things like a canopy being "ground hungry" be strictly an interpretation of the pilot? It's a gift, I don't try to explain it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #6 February 6, 2007 QuoteAt least I'm getting the kind of advice I had hoped for. After the last two posts and also listening to other experienced pilots discuss canopies I have to wonder?, can you have two different canopies of same size and make yet have slightly different flight characteristics? Or, can things like a canopy being "ground hungry" be strictly an interpretation of the pilot? People's judgements are all relative and we don't all agree on how terms are defined. Canopies of the same size+model that are in trim fly pretty close although steering line shrinkage can make one seem to require less control input; but it's almost all perspective. The Stiletto is more sensitive to control input than most other canopies at the same wing loading. Maximum turn rate is high but no too out of line for the performance class. Requiring less control input to reach a maximum rate turn leads some people to call the Stiletto ground hungry. Definately makes it more fun to fly - I'd jump a Stiletto over an Omega, Spectre, Safire, or Crossfire for this reason. I haven't gotten arround to trying a Sabre2. Without control input following a speed inducing manuever it will achieve completely level flight which more modern swooping canopies will not. It will do so in less altitude than most more modern designs of the same performance class and wing loading . For this reason I wouldn't consider it to be ground hungry compared to a Crossfire, Samurai, or FX. The Stiletto is trimmed very flat. You don't need any toggle or riser input to get back from long spots. This may lead you to believe its not ground hungry. The Samurai is trimmed steeper, although it flattens out if you spread the rear risers and I wouldn't consider it ground hungry either. It opens faster than many more modern designs but not briskly like a Sabre or Monarch. I think the Stiletto and Samurai open about right - comfortably without loosing too much altitude. The Spectre, Crossfire, and FX waste altitude that would be better used tracking or getting back from a longer spot. The Sabre (not 2) and Stiletto aren't much alike beyond both being made of ZP and having a PD label on the tail. Pretty much you just have to try it. If you're not competing at a high level, how a given canopy suits you is going to be much more important than how its performance with an expert pilot is assessed with a tape measure. At the very least you need input on how it compares to a canopy you're familiar with. It used to be that pretty much every experienced skydiver had jumped a Sabre (first popular ZP canopy in the US) and Stiletto (first popular elliptical in the US) but there are many more choices now. I put about 600 jumps on my Stiletto 120 at wing loadings between 1.6 and 1.7 pounds/square foot; about 300 on my Samurai 105 at similar wingloadings; and also own a Monarch 135 which is about like an original Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seal_S49 0 #7 February 6, 2007 QuotePretty much you just have to try it. Now there's a good answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #8 February 7, 2007 QuoteThe Sabre (not 2) and Stiletto aren't much alike beyond both being made of ZP and having a PD label on the tail. Very true of even the Sabre 2, they're completely different plan forms, as illustrated in the attachment that was made from PD provided line trim charts available on their website. "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
