Intentional breakaway requirements

[catfishhunter 1]

Air bags work but do you really want to run your car into a wall to test them?

Intentionally putting yourself into a REAL emergency to see if you can get out is just asking to prove once again Darwin was right.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[theonlyski 3]

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Air bags work but do you really want to run your car into a wall to test them?

Intentionally putting yourself into a REAL emergency to see if you can get out is just asking to prove once again Darwin was right.

What if he was using a thought out tersh rig?

Such as a T-10 style harness under his normal rig with a belly mounted main for purposes of cutting away then going to his normal main?

It might not re-enforce the EPs but it could easily simulate the feeling of cutting away and going back into freefall... as well as whatever malfunction you want, packed that way or not.

Im not saying everyone and their mother should go do this, but, if hes gonna do it, minas well be as safe as he can.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[airtwardo 6]

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Air bags work but do you really want to run your car into a wall to test them?

Intentionally putting yourself into a REAL emergency to see if you can get out is just asking to prove once again Darwin was right.

What if he was using a thought out tersh rig?

Such as a T-10 style harness under his normal rig with a belly mounted main for purposes of cutting away then going to his normal main?

It might not re-enforce the EPs but it could easily simulate the feeling of cutting away and going back into freefall... as well as whatever malfunction you want, packed that way or not.

Im not saying everyone and their mother should go do this, but, if hes gonna do it, minas well be as safe as he can.

Doubling up on harnesses might not be the way to go then.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theonlyski 3]

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Air bags work but do you really want to run your car into a wall to test them?

Intentionally putting yourself into a REAL emergency to see if you can get out is just asking to prove once again Darwin was right.

What if he was using a thought out tersh rig?

Such as a T-10 style harness under his normal rig with a belly mounted main for purposes of cutting away then going to his normal main?

It might not re-enforce the EPs but it could easily simulate the feeling of cutting away and going back into freefall... as well as whatever malfunction you want, packed that way or not.

Im not saying everyone and their mother should go do this, but, if hes gonna do it, minas well be as safe as he can.

Doubling up on harnesses might not be the way to go then.

Not everyone has a purty harness modified to allow for a belly mounted main...

Although, I could have my new Wonderhog modified to do it... I wonder if RWS will do that?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[airtwardo 6]

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Air bags work but do you really want to run your car into a wall to test them?

Intentionally putting yourself into a REAL emergency to see if you can get out is just asking to prove once again Darwin was right.

What if he was using a thought out tersh rig?

Such as a T-10 style harness under his normal rig with a belly mounted main for purposes of cutting away then going to his normal main?

It might not re-enforce the EPs but it could easily simulate the feeling of cutting away and going back into freefall... as well as whatever malfunction you want, packed that way or not.

Im not saying everyone and their mother should go do this, but, if hes gonna do it, minas well be as safe as he can.

Doubling up on harnesses might not be the way to go then.

Not everyone has a purty harness modified to allow for a belly mounted main...

Although, I could have my new Wonderhog modified to do it... I wonder if RWS will do that?

I think they make the intentional cutaway rigs the Golden Knights use...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theonlyski 3]

I fully intend on being on one of 2 or three army PDTs, the Knights are a definate possibility, if I can get my unit to send me home from Iraq early enough to try out... Unlike last time the papers just COULDNT get signed in time...

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[lowpull 0]

UPT and Jumpshack both havr rigs that are built expressly for this situation.

And, to clear up some mis-information in you post,the rigs are set up so that the first main, and the first"reserve" CAN be cut away. The belly mounted reserve can not be cutaway.
Both canopies in the rig on your back are attached with standard 3 rings and cut away hardware.

You are correct that the handles are in a different configuration ie, one set of handles is outboard of the main lift web,( much like a tandem) so proper training and pracice are absolutely necessary.

I have run several weekends at mt home dz, and everyone that has gone through the procedure, every single one, has told me that when they later had a real malfunction, they were much more calm and prepared for the cutaway and reserve deployment.

It means a lot to me when one of my kids tell me how I made it easier to perform the actions neessary to save their lives.

So, in the proper setting, doing intentionals are a valuable tool for the up and coming skydiver.

ralph

[mjosparky 3]

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I have subscribed to changing the decision and act altitude to 3000 if I have time because of my early 1st cutaway experience (second AFF jump) where I knew I had a major problem at about 4500 feet worked it for a little bit and then decided I would make my decision and act at 3000.

If I am reading this right working a malfunction on your second AFF jump is just plain stupid. Your decision altitude should have been within seconds of realizing you had a “major problem”. Rigging in the air will get you killed.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[SpringVark 0]

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History has shown that this isn't something that most people have trouble with, oddly enough. Even newer jumpers report it being almost automatic.

What we practice on the ground, we do in the sky. Repetition works!

[dragon2 0]

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And, to clear up some mis-information in you post,the rigs are set up so that the first main, and the first"reserve" CAN be cut away.

Not on the gear I jumped, twice. Because most if not all intentionals I've seen done overe here at least are done with your own gear (or other rig which can accomodate the D rings) plus an extra harness with the belly reserve. Ie, 2 un-cuttawayable canopies, not something a beginner should use IMO. If intentionals are done over here it's usual to get the required cutaway before you can become a TM, which here at 1000 jumps means you're not that inexperienced anymore

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[virgin-burner 1]

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Does it sound like a too crazy idea?

YES.

u put on that flame-resistant gear, nsh!?

I'd say waterproof will make more use then... Well, you know... it might be too scary to me, hehehe

anyway... why do you ask about me wearing flame-resistant gear, virgin-burner?

because you'll very likely get flamed just for asking said question..

why do you ask? are you a virgin!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[nsh 0]

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Does it sound like a too crazy idea?

YES.

u put on that flame-resistant gear, nsh!?

I'd say waterproof will make more use then... Well, you know... it might be too scary to me, hehehe

anyway... why do you ask about me wearing flame-resistant gear, virgin-burner?

because you'll very likely get flamed just for asking said question..

why do you ask? are you a virgin!?

Hahaha. You got me on that, dude.
Never got flamed for asking questions to skydivers yet... does it make me a virgin????

[virgin-burner 1]

kinda..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[nsh 0]

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kinda..

Oh, shit!!!

[airtwardo 6]

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Does it sound like a too crazy idea?

YES.

u put on that flame-resistant gear, nsh!?

I'd say waterproof will make more use then... Well, you know... it might be too scary to me, hehehe

anyway... why do you ask about me wearing flame-resistant gear, virgin-burner?

because you'll very likely get flamed just for asking said question..

why do you ask? are you a virgin!?

Hahaha. You got me on that, dude.
Never got flamed for asking questions to skydivers yet... does it make me a virgin????

So...that would mean this is the FIRST time?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[nsh 0]

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Does it sound like a too crazy idea?

YES.

u put on that flame-resistant gear, nsh!?

I'd say waterproof will make more use then... Well, you know... it might be too scary to me, hehehe

anyway... why do you ask about me wearing flame-resistant gear, virgin-burner?

because you'll very likely get flamed just for asking said question..

why do you ask? are you a virgin!?

Hahaha. You got me on that, dude.
Never got flamed for asking questions to skydivers yet... does it make me a virgin????

So...that would mean this is the FIRST time?

YEah, it a !

[jayrech 0]

There is the Tridem Rig you can rent from a company that houses two "reserves" its used for potential tandem masters who haven't had a cut away yet!

D.S 174.2

Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way.

[brettski74 0]

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I have run several weekends at mt home dz, and everyone that has gone through the procedure, every single one, has told me that when they later had a real malfunction, they were much more calm and prepared for the cutaway and reserve deployment.

If I'm understanding correctly, you routinely run intentional cutaway training for skydivers at your dropzone who have never before had to cut away their main. If that's true, how can they know whether the training really made their first real cutaway less stressful.

I've cutaway twice. Neither was intentional. Before I had my first cutaway I imagined that it would be a very stressful situation, that things would be happening so fast and wondered in the far corners of my mind as to whether I would react appropriately under pressure. When it happened, it wasn't stressful. If anything, my perception of things seemed to make everything slow down, so it didn't feel fast or rushed. It wasn't scary and I was back up on the next load. Basically, it was the opposite of almost everything I'd imagined before the actual event. My second cutaway experience was similar to my first and to be honest, neither then nor now do I feel that my first cutaway made me any more capable or confident to deal with my second one than I was for my first.

I'll accept that every single one of your intentional cutaway students who have later gone on to have a real malfunction and cut away found the experience to be much less stressful than they'd imagined, but then again, so does virtually everyone I know who has had to cut away, so I don't think you can attribute that to the intentional cutaway training.

[mjosparky 3]

What you experienced is called Temporal Distortion, common in high speed, high stress situations. It can be really dangerous. While you perceive things as having slowed down they are in fact moving a normal speed. This lulls you into thinking you have more time to deal with a problem and before you know it you have run out of altitude.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pchapman 262]

Yes since we can't run parallel universe experiments one can't know the benefits of an intentional for sure.

Interesting observations about the lack of any large perceived value in doing an intentional.

I can accept that there isn't really a skill to be learned by doing an intentional, the amount of practice is pretty small, and it isn't like the real thing.

Still, it can reduce apprehension about a future mal (no matter what actually happens during the mal), and is something people may be interested in doing to experience it. Just like other interesting and new things in skydiving.

There may be small, useful bits of learning going on, even if it isn't life saving. Whether dealing with toggle pop or line over or what have you, people may well say they dealt with it a little better once they've experienced it a couple times.

If I have a spinning mal with line twists again, I figure I should be able to fight the twists better than the first time it happened (although probably nothing would help), and be even more aware of time and altitude (although I was aware). The first spinning mal under a small canopy was simply different than anything I had actually experienced. And that's even though I had done a few intentional chops before, including one where I cut away one side first and spun quickly. The real mal is still different. Still, every chop was interesting.

An intentional can help with not only getting used to the handles, but also reduced stability after the chop.

So perhaps doing an intentional isn't really an important tool in helping deal with future emergencies, but it can be interesting and add a little to one's knowledge and skills.