Off Heading Openings

[skyblu3 0]

Hi,
I have been suffering off heading openings lately on my Stiletto 150. Sometimes pretty violent 180 drgree spins. It is worrying me to the point where I have stopped jumping with large groups in fear of a collision.
I am quite certain that I have picked up some bad habits while packing which is causing this, as when I have packers pack for me it seems to be ok.
What exactly causes off heading openings, and where should I take most care during the pack jobs? I know base jumpers have some tricks to keep everything straight, do you wanna share!!
Nick.

[hookitt 0]

Pull in a slight track and be as square as possible, and just relax.

How many jumps on the lines? The only time my stilettos consistantly opened poorly was when it was time for a new line set.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[kenneth21441 0]

How do you pack? Pro or side pack or stack pack.
Just nwanted to know to give you some input....

thanks,

Ken..

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[Bosveld 0]

Off heading openings can be caused by an uncountable number of reasons. Rolling the nose and one side slips out first, not packing the canopy completely symmetrical, from pulling in a wrong posistion. Hell, I'll never be able to mention all of the things it could be.

My advise would be to next time get one of those packers that "it seems ok" with, to stand with you when you pack and check what you could be doing wrong.
Let someone experienced check you packing. That's the only way to safely say what could be wrong.

Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true!

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Off heading openings can be caused by an uncountable number of reasons. Rolling the nose and one side slips out first, not packing the canopy completely symmetrical,

I wonder about this sometimes. Over the years my packing has gotten sloppier and sloppier yet my offheading opens have decreased with time, this leads me to believe that.....

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from pulling in a wrong posistion

Or being asymetrical in the harness is probably the leading cause of offheading openings.

Problem is none of us like to believe we're not symetrical when we pull so we run off looking for other things to blame the openings on.

Now bear in mind, I'm not saying this stuff like it's a fact, but more of an observation I've been looking at.

Opinions?

EDIT: This point is assuming that your canopy is in trim (as mentioned by Hookit).

Blue skies,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[NeedToJump 0]

Ian, I agree with what you're saying. I think that most canopies are very forgiving of the way you pack but not as forgiving of your body position. I'll take it a step further and say (from my observation) that I don't think it's necessarily body position at pull time but just after and during the opening.

I think most of us are pretty symetrical and stable during pull time, but then as the canopy starts opening (and lifts us UP as all the whuffos know ) the we are uneven in the harness and that this seems to be the main cause of off heading openings.

I know when I am wearing my bootie suit that sometime right after I pull as I am transitioning from belly to Earth to a vertical orientation that I'll put down one leg faster than the other and that bootie will catch a lot more air and start to turn me.

I've found that if as soon as the canopy starts coming out if I go directly into a standing position and make an effort to force my weight to be even in the harness that I get really nice, consistent on-heading openings.

Just my observations.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I think most of us are pretty symetrical and stable during pull time, but then as the canopy starts opening (and lifts us UP as all the whuffos know ) the we are uneven in the harness and that this seems to be the main cause of off heading openings.

Yeah I think that's a better way to describe what I was trying to say.

See you in Deland in May
Stay safe.

Blue ones,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[nightjumps 1]

Do you tie your three rings together with a pull-up cord before packing?
Do you ensure your excess line is not placed at the bottom of the reserve tray, but at a 45 degree angle down from the reserve tray into the main pack tray?
Can you put your d-bag in the main pack tray straight up and down, rather than rotating the d-bag?
Are your legstraps tightened symmetrically?

Food for thought.

[ianmdrennan 2]

At the risk of getting flamed....

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Do you tie your three rings together with a pull-up cord before packing?

I just dont believe this makes a difference at all. Within reason attempts should be made to keep the risers even, but I see so many people wasting their time doing this and it drives me nuts.

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Do you ensure your excess line is not placed at the bottom of the reserve tray, but at a 45 degree angle down from the reserve tray into the main pack tray?

Good point, the reason this is suggested (explanation for original poster) is that you can create bag spin by getting lines on one side momentarily caught on the container. However, as the original poster is indicating issues after initial deployment I don't think this is the cause.

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Can you put your d-bag in the main pack tray straight up and down, rather than rotating the d-bag?

I do this with my container. I ALWAYS get back spin if I set the bag on it's side, so I leave it standing straight up as it would leave the container. As before though this would cause line twists, not offheading openings.

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Are your legstraps tightened symmetrically?

Excellent point, and goes right back to being symetrical in the harness throughout the deployment. Thanks for bringing this one up.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Rdy2skydive 0]

I know I'm a newbie but I was having a lot of problems with off-heading openings when I took Scott Miller's canopy class last summer. His advice was to make sure you put your legs together as your canopy is opening. This works every time. I've even shared his advice with many of my fellow jumpers and they've had success with it too. Just my$.02.

[nightjumps 1]

LB,

I don't think an good exchange of opinion warrants flaming.

Regarding the pull-up cord through the three-rings... Sometimes, the more we compound change and the harder we try, the more we fail. Sometimes the answer is found by just going back to the basics.

Whether you make sure your risers are symmetrical by using a pull-up cord or by visual check... its just one of the basics. I "believe" the more weight-loading placed on a canopy, the more symmetrical it has to be.

"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

[ianmdrennan 2]

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LB,

I don't think an good exchange of opinion warrants flaming.

I agree, just sometimes you never know what you're going to get on these forums. Didn't mean to be so melodramatic

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Regarding the pull-up cord through the three-rings... Sometimes, the more we compound change and the harder we try, the more we fail. Sometimes the answer is found by just going back to the basics.

Whether you make sure your risers are symetrical by using a pull-up cord or by visual check... its just one of the basics. I "believe" the more weight-loading placed on a canopy, the more symetrical it has to be.

I'll buy that for a dollar

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"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Dennis Miller fan by any chance?

Stay safe and blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[nightjumps 1]

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Dennis Miller fan by any chance?

Oh yeah. While I don't always agree, I do love his passion to rant.

[nightjumps 1]

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As before though this would cause line twists, not offheading openings.

I need your help in understanding this comment. Been thinking about this for awhile and am not quite sure I'm there yet.

I'm not sure I understand how even a partial line twist is not an offheading opening.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I need your help in understanding this comment. Been thinking about this for awhile and am not quite sure I'm there yet.

I'm not sure I understand how even a partial line twist is not an offheading opening.

Well, technically you're right. Line twists normally are off heading, although I've had 360 line twists and been flying straight in the indended direction so I supposed it is possible, although unlikely, to have line twists and be on heading.

I think the confusion is from terminology. Most people I've encountered think of offheading openings as ones that start off good (or close to good, or even just pointing in one direction) and then end up turning away from their original heading, normally significantly.

While not 100% accurate, I've stuck with that kind of description of offheading openings and linetwists, and should probably change the way I describe them.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Oh yeah. While I don't always agree, I do love his passion to rant.

You should check out Henry Rollins sometime too, great stuff.

Blue ones,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[nightjumps 1]

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and then end up turning away from their original heading, normally significantly.

OK.. I'm with you now. Semantics. Offheading from the brake lines not being symmetrical, versus line twists... Which reminds me... I wonder how many twists one of the brake lines has in it?

I'll check out Rollins.

Gots to run... Blue skies

[kallend 1,625]

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I need your help in understanding this comment. Been thinking about this for awhile and am not quite sure I'm there yet.

I'm not sure I understand how even a partial line twist is not an offheading opening.

Well, technically you're right. Line twists normally are off heading, although I've had 360 line twists and been flying straight in the indended direction so I supposed it is possible, although unlikely, to have line twists and be on heading.

I think the confusion is from terminology. Most people I've encountered think of offheading openings as ones that start off good (or close to good, or even just pointing in one direction) and then end up turning away from their original heading, normally significantly.

While not 100% accurate, I've stuck with that kind of description of offheading openings and linetwists, and should probably change the way I describe them.

Blue skies
Ian

I jump a Stiletto 150 and I see this behavior pretty often. Everything seems fine until the inflation is almost complete, then one end cell inflates before the other and the canopy snaps around, often 180 degrees.

I jumped a Crossfire for a while that almost always had one end cell inflate before the other, but it didn't turn.

I think this is a Stiletto characteristic. Not called "Spinetto" for nothing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I jumped a Crossfire for a while that almost always had one end cell inflate before the other, but it didn't turn.

I think this is a Stiletto characteristic. Not called "Spinetto" for nothing.

Yeah, I think the effects are more pronounced on the stiletto, probably because it's far more tapered than the CF. Unfortunately I don't have much time under a stiletto (heatwave was my choice of poison) but I have seen that behavior before. I have also seen jumpers enhance that behavior by not flying through the opening or being asymmetric in the harness.

I guess, as it always seems to be in this sport, there's no clear cut solution and the results are a combination of factors.

Low jump number folk thinking about, or jumping, a stiletto (or any other hp canopy for that matter)should note that this is another factor to consider with these types of canopies. They require you to be heads up, and proactive during the opening as well as regular flight.

Blue skies, stay safe.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[base283 0]

An often overlooked factor is the PC. Symmetry and drag factor into this. Your PC needs to be somewhat stable (Not orbiting) . The keel line to bridle lengths need to stay compatible throughout the shrinkage phases that occur as result of friction/heat. otherwise the apex can be pulled down lower than the "1" above the skirt position and create less drag than needed to achieve a separation speed of 30 - 50 fps (The value is from "I read it some where"). Check out posts from Bill Booth on the subject of PCs. The PC is basically the initiator of deployment and any problems there are compounded throughout the rest of the sequence.
I hope this helps,
take care,
space

[1383 0]

I use to have line twist all the time.
I didn't jump for 3 months in the winter ( i'm a sisi what can i say) and when i started jumping again I made a demo full ( just to be sure...) and i discovered i was unstable during opening.
I've realized that i put my left hand to close to my head = a soft spin on opening = a line twist.
After I've fixed this i get on heading opening all the time.

[skyblu3 0]

Ok, I need to clarify. I will give you a clearer picture of what is actually happening. I throw out my pilot chute, I feel the bag go off my back then I am pulled upright. At this point I can look up and see the canopy snivelling with the slider at the top of the lines and I am still facing in the right direction. As the nose catches air I am then spun 90 degrees and sometimes 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

[Bosveld 0]

Ok,

This eliminates, dumping unstable or in a spin. It could still be that you are leaning one way in the harness when it's sniveling.
Or it could still be the pack job.
The fact that you told me that the problem dissapears when you get someone else to pack it still suggests to me that it is the pack job.

If you get someone to check your pack job, they should be able to spot the problem. If they can't, well then it's not the pack job.

Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true!

[mxracer194 0]

I took this advice and have seen fantastic and consistant improvement. When the canopy yanks me upright I immediately straighten my legs and keep my feet together. Wow. On heading from start to finish. Thank you for your $.02!!!

[popsjumper 2]

It's not the canopy. Canopies don't open "off-heading".
It's YOU facing the wrong direction.
TURN AROUND, BITCH!Kineson voice>

interlude>



Well, what do you expect from a Triathlon pilot?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239