Rotational BASE

[CrazyThomas 0]

A concept to discuss:
Does a rotational motion enhance stability, and/or on-heading opening performance?
There are three axes of rotation to be considered. Front Flips we'll call (right hand rule) positive X rotational momentum. Back flips are negative X momentum. Barrel Rolls (lying on belly and spinning) to the right hand side we'll call positive Y. Rolls to the left are negative Y. Standing spins to the right called postive Z. To the left is negative Z.
This coordinate system is based with the ground (or impact point) being 0, and everything else considered positive. Gravity acts towards the center of the earth. and can be assumed constant 9.81m/s.
As in, is there safety in performing flips on exit as opposed to flat and stable eixts?
Peace,
Thomas

[cpoxon 0]

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As in, is there safety in performing flips on exit as opposed to flat and stable eixts?

Much as I hate to fuel you Thomas, I've been wondering the same myself recently (not that it should concern Newbies? Perhaps your question would be better posed on BLINC if anyone

 there takes you seriously anymore). 


Layouts seem to be a preferred launch for wingsuit flyers to get them going faster...

			
		

[TomAiello 25]

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Layouts seem to be a preferred launch for wingsuit flyers to get them going faster...

This is a major misconception.

Many people feel that Rob's insistence on a gainer launch with the wingsuit was a major factor in his fatality.

Rotational launches definitely cost altitude in wingsuit flight.

They look cool, they can be neat to do, but they definitely do not get you flying faster.

I'll try to write more in this thread later, but I'm on d-dOg's P.O.S. dial-up, so I haven't much time.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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Is there safety in performing flips on exit as opposed to flat and stable eixts?

One word answer: No.

Short answer: If you are asking this question, a flat and stable exit will be safer for you.

Discussion: While it may theoretically be possible to imagine a situation in which a rotational launch could be superior to a flat and stable exit, I would probably back off of any jump that required it. Unless you have world class aerobatic skills (so, unless you are an Australian with gender identification issues, or live in Southern California and can't stand white, or are one of maybe three other people on earth), you are extremely unlikely to encounter a situation in which attempting an aerial will make a jump safer.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[motherhucker 0]

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is there safety in performing flips on exit as opposed to flat and stable eixts?

NO. especially for you.

[Faber 0]

JUST wondering(and ONLY JUST).
how any jumps/experience(migth speassaly in unstabel) would it bee before consider a thing like gainers.Im not even think its a thing fore me(but limits get moved at time).Ofcours such a jump should have been tained in safe places first(swimhall or so).

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

I am not an expert on subterminal BASE aerobatics. My best advice on this subject is to go to the Australian BASE Association Site and download and read the Aerials in BASE article in the articles section.

The article was written by Dwain Weston, who is the world's foremost expert on subterminal BASE Aerobatics.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

Werry nice and informativ articel.
But that werent the only artickle to find there.Alot of good info.
Thanks for the tip

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[FLsurfer 0]

Just my .02, but be sure you have plenty of height. While I'm no trained diver I never had fear of flips, gainers, etc... into water. I started thinking about my first aerial in BASE in the mid 30 jump range. I thought about doing a gainer first since I always seem to stay on axis slightly better than when I front flip. Finally at jump 42 I decided conditions were perfect. Only a very slight wind so no worrying about tracking away from wire and I managed to keep myself calm. It seems like anytime I try something new in BASE, I have to work at keeping from getting over amped. So here I am at top of A with partner and I tell him that I'm going for it but that I'm going to do a front flip. It was good to have someone there that had BASE aerial experience. After about 5 min of total silence and mentally picturing the flip, I launched. I did a nice little half tuck and rotated for what felt like an eternity. When I stabled out I thought I was a lot lower so I went for PC. As soon as I started to pull, I realized I had about 400' more but since I knew PC was already partially out I threw and had a little extra canopy time. I feel that the extra height of this object was a big help. It was nice being able to focus on rotational axis and not the speed of rotation. I used up about 350' during flip but that visual will be burned in my mind forever.

Problems just be opportunities in der workin' clothes.

[motherhucker 0]

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Just my .02, but be sure you have plenty of height. While I'm no trained diver I never had fear of flips, gainers, etc... into water. I started thinking about my first aerial in BASE in the mid 30 jump range. I thought about doing a gainer first since I always seem to stay on axis slightly better than when I front flip. Finally at jump 42 I decided conditions were perfect. Only a very slight wind so no worrying about tracking away from wire and I managed to keep myself calm. It seems like anytime I try something new in BASE, I have to work at keeping from getting over amped. So here I am at top of A with partner and I tell him that I'm going for it but that I'm going to do a front flip. It was good to have someone there that had BASE aerial experience. After about 5 min of total silence and mentally picturing the flip, I launched. I did a nice little half tuck and rotated for what felt like an eternity. When I stabled out I thought I was a lot lower so I went for PC. As soon as I started to pull, I realized I had about 400' more but since I knew PC was already partially out I threw and had a little extra canopy time. I feel that the extra height of this object was a big help. It was nice being able to focus on rotational axis and not the speed of rotation. I used up about 350' during flip but that visual will be burned in my mind forever.

Some important things to consider BEFORE launching a BASE aerial:
1. Think about your delay. How long is it going to take you to rotate to a safe place to pitch? If that time is going to be LESS than 3 secs, Is a slider off opening appropriate for the particular object? Where would an off-heading opening put you relative to any "jumper-unfriendly" features of the object? If it takes you LONGER to get stable from a shitty aerial, will you have eaten up your 3 sec window for slider off/down? Conversely, if you are slider up, and you rotate FASTER than anticipated, are you going to be able to STOP your rotation until it's safe to deploy a slider up packjob? If you are going to have to track after your aerial(s)? This will require a different type of 'finish' to the manouver than if you are slider off, usually. THE PILOT CHUTE IS NOT THERE TO STOP YOUR ROTATION OR OTHERWISE BAIL YOU OUT.
2. You must be comfortable with your trick before you get in the car to go to the object. This is done by practicing, and then practicing some more. Gymnastic training is key. Diving is great. BEING A SOLID BASE JUMPER WITH GOOD JUDGEMENT IS PARAMOUNT. There are plenty of people doing aerials without this good judgement. They will probably die sooner than most. Don't be that person.
3. Don't close your fucking eyes! I've seen it happen. If this happens to you and you survive, promptly gather your gear, walk to the nearest trash can, insert your gear, and get yourself to the nearest bowling alley asap.
4. Find the right object. Bridges are certainly the most forgiving.
5. Jump with the right people. Anyone you have to impress or that puts undue pressure on you is not that person. BASE aerials should also ultimately be taught by a mentor. Find a good one and learn. Don't be too proud to be a student--EVER.
6. Chicken out. This tells you that you are doing it right. If you feel like chickening out, you are not ready to try your aerial(s). This applies whether you have 500 inverted triple lundy mc twists with a full between each one or if you have never launched a single gainer. No shame in flat and stable.
7. Did I mention PRACTICING? It's a good idea.
8. MOST IMPORTANT: don't fuck up if there's a camera around.

[CrazyThomas 0]

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4. Find the right object. Bridges are certainly the most forgiving.
8. MOST IMPORTANT: don't fuck up if there's a camera around.

BIG LOAD OF CRAP. I see bridges as dangerous to perform aerials on. Why? Name a bridge over 1,000 feet. Only one comes to mind for me. And it has a wicked landing area.
Maybe Bridge Day? 876 is pretty high, but how can you think that there is less pressure to impress at bridge day?
TF? Don't think about it. under 500 feet is NO PLACE to screw around with aerials. They can be performed, but this is NOT A LEARNING FRIENDLY environment. Start higher.
And the camera part? FUCK THE CAMERA. You should try a couple without a camera so that you know you are doing it for yourself, and not for video.
Peace,
Thomas

[motherhucker 0]

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BIG LOAD OF CRAP. I see bridges as dangerous to perform aerials on. Why? Name a bridge over 1,000 feet. Only one comes to mind for me. And it has a wicked landing area.
Maybe Bridge Day? 876 is pretty high, but how can you think that there is less pressure to impress at bridge day?
XXX? Don't think about it. under 500 feet is NO PLACE to screw around with aerials. They can be performed, but this is NOT A LEARNING FRIENDLY environment. Start higher.

Pull your head out out of the bong Thomas. I suppose you think a different type of object would be safer to throw aerials off of than a bridge--uh, yes, [sarcasm ON] I absolutely agree that a tower is safer for aerials than a bridge over deep water[/sarcasm] (remember how soft that water is Thomas?) I suppose if you spun in from a building as opposed to at the water under the legal span in the West US, then you'd still be loudmouthing off about this. Stick to what you know...BASE IS NOT A LEARNING FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT. You seem to think that the people that play this game are straight out of YOUR school. My post was not intended for the Romper Room jumpers that value your opinion...It was meant to potentially help someone with their head squarely upon their shoulders try their first aerials. go bury your head in a bag of weed and twist up one of your [in]famous shitty packjobs.

[CrazyThomas 0]

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uh, yes, [sarcasm ON] I absolutely agree that a tower is safer for aerials than a bridge over deep water[/sarcasm] (remember how soft that water is Thomas?) I suppose if you spun in from a building as opposed to at the water under the legal span in the West US, then you'd still be loudmouthing off about this. Stick to what you know...BASE IS NOT A LEARNING FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT.

And did I say a tower? Or are you trying to put something into my mouth?
This is the kind of discussion I like though. I liked the flame. It made me laugh, when I saw your opinion.
What else?
>>go bury your head in a bag of weed and twist up >>one of your [in]famous shitty packjobs.

Why, are you pissed off at my pack jobs? Did I ever ask you to jump one of MY pack jobs? I didn't think so.
Bury my head in a bag of weed? Sounds good. The bag isn't big enough to fit in my obviously over-inflated head.
Geez, what if I were to say that I thought a BALLOON would be a good place to learn aerials, from say 5 grand? Would you then think that was a bad idea because I agreed with it?
At least you had an alias when you posted. Why don't you be real brave, and try signing a NAME also, you whiny little coward.
I didn't start any of this shit because I cared what anyone said. I started to really AMP up the flame war when it seemed noone wanted to sign their name to what they said.
That was months ago on a different site, yet you feel better about picking on a "self admitted psycho" who has been in and out of psych wards, is admittedly a schizophrenic, and is younger than you?
Wow, if I can make you feel better dude, than FLAME AWAY!
Peace,
Thomas

[TomAiello 25]

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you whiny little coward.

Please read Forum Rule number 1.

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FLAME AWAY!

Please don't.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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8. MOST IMPORTANT: don't fuck up if there's a camera around.

In all seriousness (yes, I do recognize the humor here), it's probably better to have a camera around, especially if you are learning (or making mistakes).

Lots of people think their aerials are great, but have no idea what they are really doing, and ingrain their bad habits long before they have a chance to see them on video. As in freeflying, I think that cameras have a real place in BASE aerial training.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[motherhucker 0]

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Geez, what if I were to say that I thought a BALLOON would be a good place to learn aerials, from say 5 grand?

Then I'd say, "THAT'S A SKYDIVE, NOT A BASE JUMP."
learn the difference. Read my post above...I think I've already advocated appropriate prior training before attempting BASE aerials.

As for my anonymity, I feel I have as much a "reputation" to uphold based on a screen name as I would if it were my birth name, however, "motherhucker" won't come back from the NPS dispatcher when they run my lic. plate, or the district attorney won't ever be able to use words I've written against me in court. I tell people I trust who I am. I'll never trust you.
I guess I'm just a whiny little coward, but that's OK with me, as long as you and I are in different area codes forevermore.

[Dd0g 0]

Um, just in case folks don't already know this:

1. Thomas has no experience with BASE aerials;

2. Thomas has never trained with anybody who has experience with BASE aerials;

3. Thomas does not have any experience or knowledge at all that relates to the topic of BASE aerials.

While this might not stop him from pontificating on the topic of BASE aerials, it most certainly should stop folks from taking his "advice" (more like random guesses/attempts to garner attention) seriously. That could be a fatal mistake.

His random comments on this (and other) discussion forae would be merely annoying and a waste of bandwidth (in addition to being crass, insulting, and occasionally hurtful to family members of dead jumpers) if there were not a risk that someone not familiar with his desperate attempts to garner attention might actually take his words seriously. It would be a shame for someone legitimate to be injured as a result. Consequently, there are a few of us who will always caveat his remarks in attempts to forestall this possibility.

Though, I suppose, anyone with judgment so bad as to take him seriously in the first place probably would have a difficult time making good decisions in BASE - or just about anywhere else.

Peace,

D-d0g
[email protected]
www.wrinko.com

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[CrazyThomas 0]

[attempt at humor] Now that I can post again, let me address the implications one at a time. For some reason, I stupidly feel I should: [/attempt at humor]

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1. Thomas has no experience with BASE aerials;

Absolutely right. I have nothing on video, therefore I have done nothing.

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2. Thomas has never trained with anybody who has experience with BASE aerials;

Nor have I asked anyone with ANY experience on the subject. Therefore, I am completely clueless.

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3. Thomas does not have any experience or knowledge at all that relates to the topic of BASE aerials.

#1 repeated. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. However, if A is false, then C can take on any value.

Maybe this is good humor. I am too stupid to understand. Therefore, I will retreat to my own little distorted world.

Now where is my bong? snorgle snorgle snorgle...
Thomas

[konradptr 0]

Hey CrazyThomas:

What is your motivation for annoying pretty much everyone on every board that you enter? It seems that you might be confused as to which is a BASE forum, where people talk about how not to get hurt and killed, and the Playstation2, GameCube, and X-Box sites that you might be more familiar with. Grow up and stop wasting my time and energy...

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Getting banned isn't that bad......