skyflower_bloom

sweet!!!! :17:1 jumped all week in florida....thanks sebastian crew! beer owed for first reserve ride.... sounds like a good week for you!! what was the reserve ride like? congrats.. was that the hard pull situation (i feel like i remember another post that mentioned it, but i couold be thinking of someone else..) anyways congrats and glad you are around!! so.. hey- can i do a DPH initiation at elsinore week before thanksgiving? i mean, can you guys just like have an on-call DPH rep each day/week, and fly to wherever you are needed at any point? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Some people would yank your skydiver card for making such a statement. oh, sorry to hear that.. yuck haha, but, see i never said a zero in that #1 slot, now did i?? it was a rhetorical question.. never said *i* was such a skydiver.. teehee.. those who know me, wouldn't be so quick to believe that.. i did bail on saturday night sky festivities for a girls night out instead, planned for a long time before and couldn't be reworked for another date... but see actually felt guilty for taking the girls' night over the dz, since it was the last weekend of the season, lol, i felt like a slacker-skydiver, though of course one of my duties as a skydiver is thus to party...) "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

(who has time for sex when you're jumping the last weekend of the season?) : 4 : (potentially also four, but I don't know if you could stretch that without being shady-- first solo out of the PAC and last, until next year wahh-- first non-coach 2way, first 3way, and first 4way?) now, if those firsts count as legit "firsts" for purposes of owing beer I am gonna go broke-- my beer fund will have to be bigger than my jump fund! i did bring a 12er out sunday to celebrate the last day of the season and since i figured i probably would at least "half" owe lol, so whether or not they count, i contributed my share of beer the past couple weekends.. it never ceases to amaze me when I take the recycling out.. lol.. insanity how much beer goes through those gates.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

This may not have been intended for me-- but on the jump I described, while I mention at first I couldn't see the airport at what I felt was the usual place and time, I quickly adjusted and made an effort to glance back to the light, out the door, and repeat. I happened to apparently miss the one time the light went yellow to green, because I was in the "looking out for traffic below and airport in sight" mode rather than the "look at the yellow light and see if it is green yet" mode- make sense? So I agree the topic of when a go-around is given, and specifically on a hop and pop or pre-A/student jump, in the case I initially described, it was a matter of several seconds and I would have been out the door within less than 5 seconds whether or not someone said "go!" I don't think I could or would have gone differentially faster due to someone telling me, since I was still processing and maneuvering and went as soon as I could, but thinking I needed to go even faster than that for some reason prompted me to rush-- maybe more accurate to say exit more poorly/"feeling" more rushed, since I make no statement that I actually left prior to when I would have otherwise felt safe leaving *on this particular jump.* Now again, this is my perception as a newbie.. but based on prior experience so far (which again granted, is not the same as an experienced person's, but which does give me some frame of reference), as well as the experience of comparing perceived events to the occurrence and time on my debrief videos over the course of AFF and ISP/coach as often as possible, to get a sense of these things to avoid sensory overload caused time distortion) So yeah- it is a valid topic- I just don;t want you to think that I for some reason intended any hesitation beyond feeling safe and being in position, I did not feel that it was a problematic spot, planned to exit, and did exit. I don't know that I could think of a very likely situation at this point in my career that I would encounter that would have me asking for a go-around on a H&P, nor have I seen such situation!! But then again I have only thirty-some jumps.. and don't doubt it is both possible and legitimate in rare circumstances to choose not to jump and/or request a go-around.. guess it depends on DZ policy and the pilot, when a jumper has "missed" their opportunity and when a go around is done and for whom/under what conditions. So OOC, you think if you actually had a problem with the low spot, they'd just send you to full altitude and later charge you the difference in the cost of the jump ticket?? Huh never thought of that.. *shrug* "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Hehe yeah.. you'd just go all the way to altitude wouldn't you. Hoenstly though, if there was a reason for the hop n pop (ex. for me it was canopy control pre-A) or a student without a freefall coach, a go-around seems warranted if for example (as stated) cloud cover, other aircraft, etc.) but i guess in my OP, I wouldn't have wanted or needed a go-around, the spot was good, timing was fine

That rig has a skyhook, the freebag was attached to the main. I have no idea cause he isn't my rigger.

Actually that is a good call I had not thought about that but my first "lower"/3.5k h&p, the coach who was helping me knew i was nervous about it and i believe she said something like, "ok you can go when you're ready" when the green came on. and then, there i went. it was actually really reassuring that she said that, even though i saw the light come on and was already in position by the door at yellow-- so, it wasn't even meant to necessarily/primarily remind me of the status of the light, so much as just checking in w/ me as a newer jumper and never having done a "low" h&p till that one, she knew i was nervous and communicated what was going on and made me feel confident in making the decision of how and when to exit (and i didn't hesitate, i was ready so i went!) "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Congrats on your first solo!! That is awesome- good feeling, eh?

Man, Fast and popsjumper, I know you are disagreeing with each other but I have to say I am heartened that at least coming from the same place of looking out for newer jumpers, if coming across differently and same passion for the sport. (Haha sorry I am in a sappy mood. But legitimately, thanks for all you more experienced jumpers do for us newbies.) Pops- It did make me nervous. I'd guess that many/most new A-license-ish level jumpers are more easily made nervous by situations that wouldn't phase someone with you or D's experience. It was the first exit I have fully "tumbled" in quite a few jumps, because I *did* respond with nerves and rushed it a bit. But I don't think it caused me to have a mal and cutaway (not saying that -you- believe I am implying that either-- just don't want any miscommunication as to my beliefs or intents with regard to even mentioning it). Was just relating the chronology and it stuck in my mind as it was obviously a memorable jump sequence and did have some stressors (things that wouldn't bother a more experienced person- but were notable to me) and a lot of firsts. OTOH, sometimes I legitimately do have to get my head outta my ass, newb or no, it is *not* a forgiving sport (but it is nice to have the transition with instructors, then coaches, then mentors etc. so that you have some gradual transfer of responsibility, though ultimately it is yours when it comes down to it from jump one, you know what i mean). I think you both make good points, and it's a balance of a culture where people realize that a new jumper might see things different than an experienced one, and think about how words are used at crucial times, but also a situation where newer jumpers like me also have to get used to things and learn how to make safe decisions and think quick regardless of what others might be deciding or doing- keep each other safe ya know? Anyways I'll butt out here, just wanted to say I legitimately appreciate that I think you are both coming from the same place of wanting to make sure jumpers stay safe, and yes, what I share as my perceptions on here might be seen very differently by someone with more experience, and multiple viewpoints are always helpful in my book! blue skies to you both~ R EDIT-- I want to apologize for my first post as well, I was fresh off the adrenaline of a cutaway and finally met my goal of getting my A license within the season, and was trying to convey an intense situation. I did use the term "the 'go' idiots" simply since I am so used to hearing/reading that and it's an understood term/phenomena. Please accept my general apology for the harsh term used when the situation probably did not warrant it. Sometimes you obviously say things online you really would not want to say to someone's face- I dislike catching myself at that! Like I said, I drove double distance and paid double (due to more coaching over solos on the ISP/A progression) when choosing to transfer to my current home dz at SK, so I certainly don't have any qualms about respect for student safety there. All dzs have their strong & weak points of course, but I really do think that communication at exit time and in aircraft is an important safety issue and personal issue relevant to every person and dz, not just one place since I assume we have all been on loads with mis-communication due to noise when spotting or preparing for an exit, yelling of "go" when someone is spotting, etc. It's not a dz specific issue, it's a skydiving issue. Maybe a topic for another thread even. But yeah, wanted to clear that up on a re-read of my own harsh words. Doesn't change my own opinion on communication and word use in the plane at crucial times, but I am not mad or blaming anyone, and didn't need to say it like that at all.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

No we don't. Thanks for selling my DZ short based on one post, by one person, with 30 jumps, that really has her hands full just remembering all the right things to do on a skydive. (Not picking on you Robyn, that's just where you're at right now). I wasn't on that load, but someone was who I do trust to tell me the truth was and as far as she can remember (a skydiving staff member/instructor with over 1500 jumps) no one was "yelling". There was likely a "Go" because as noted elsewhere in this thread, you were spotting when the light changed from yellow to green. As for hop and pop's and cuts, everyone gets one, students and experienced jumpers. Proper configuration of the plane for a hop and pop pass is flaps on and nose slightly down and everyone gets that. I have had to physically stop someone from jumping before the green was on, because they were about to do a poised exit into the tail, I don't understand why either because we tell new jumpers to the dz about these things and there are signs in the plane. I'm not writing this post to talk about or nit pick every little issue that people have brought up in this thread, but I don't want people thinking that my dropzone is full of people who are yelling go. It just isn't. As for any of the commentary about downsizing, what's being done with her is what's reasonable and safe, and I say that as an aff instructor that has seen her jumps. Also, Robyn does write a lot, maybe a bit more than she should, but if you don't like it don't read her posts. I wish people wouldn't be so mean about it. She talks more than she writes too. Wrap your head around that. It takes some getting used to and everyone doesn't always have time to listen to everything, but she is just an enthusiastic new jumper, be nice. Thanks D, and no offense taken. It's true, that is exactly where I am at- I still f'ing *remind* myself to arch in freefall (maybe I shouldn't admit that ) and check alti every 500 to thousand feet like a crazy person, and have a million questions about just about everything (as D can attest.. on the other side of the coin, he doesn't "use his words" at all though, he just violently hits you in the eye with his nerf weapon to convey his points!! Kidding... ) But yes, I am nowhere near experienced enough for my summary of anything to be taken as fact in the skydiving world, hence my frequent references to "experienced folks agreed" or "we thought this" or the questions or rhetorical things I say- I don't ever mean for my perception to be taken as reality. The fact is someone said go as they likely saw yellow to green before I noticed. I don't know who, I assume no one at my dz has malicious intent to me, and I don't "blame" or involve that, it's just a detail that plays into my recall of the chronology of my mental state and physical acts, like a memory landmark I guess in recounting a stressful situation of first cutaway jump. And, D, thank you for clarifying- I think I meant "yelling" as in loud and enunciated-- everyone yells about everything on the plane w/ an open door, cause it's a freakin aeroplane, and it is loud! Not 'yelling' as in angry face glaring and peeved. Though I do think the word go, in my own bastion of sensitivity and political correctness, could be done away with except extreme situations, and/or replaced by "green," since "go" is not the same as "green" (ah semantics.. but really though) and since go is a command-word, which I do think should be avoided unless it is a command related to improved safety or emergency.. but my opinion could change in 5 jumps, or in 500, and I refer mainly to theory and dz culture, no particular complaints about my dz, so it is neither here nor there and I have too little experience to know all the ins and outs anywho.. and like said it's rare anyway. Thanks for the input on canopy too D- I have had several long (and when I say long, it means *long*) talks with several of our senior and master riggers and AFF instructors about everything from toggle position, stall, flare, glide ratio, canopy materials, wingloading, etc. (over two mos building up to changing my main size/canopy. and I wouldn't agree to a plan if I didn't trust that, along with my own education and knowledge that it is a safe plan, that many many people who know a hell of a lot more than me also feel it is appropriate. 31 jumps and 0.9 sounds right based on those who have seen me as D attests, and the charts as well. (As I said in a pm though, it's all good to raise safety questions, I appreciate the concern. It's all good and has been handled well by many experienced/rated instructors and riggers

as in "New Berlin" Spotted Cow? You left it and expected no one to drink it? Please leave the keys in your car when you come to the DZ. No one will steal it, I promise. Lol yeah.. are you calling me naive? I shouldn't admit this on a skydive forum, but I am not a big beer fan. I'll drink a cold one on a rare occasion (or usually finish half and then it's warm and gross so i waste the rest.. it's true. But it's not awful, it's a social thing more than a taste thing i guess if i do have one, and at least I know if I am gonna buy beer i better get the good stuff! Humps; Jumps; Beer owed. Me:0; 0; 0 Complete waste of what may have been the last really nice weekend of the season Aw, that sucks Joe! But seriously, come on over, it is supposed to be bad Sat. but in the 60s on Sunday, and we'll have the PAC running for the last time this season! Love to jump with you if you can make it.. but I am forgetting how the work week is structured for you and where that will fall.. but yeah- come jump!! Sorry you didn't get any Halloween jumps though.. we'll make up for it if ya come out to Sky Knights!! And-- Congrats on the save and first reserve ride ladydyver!!! So it was a packing error causing hard pull? Glad you are with us, and yep, beer!! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Haha oh god... politics... let's just say I am not thrilled right now, and I don't wanna fucking talk about the god damn election or anything else Man I am just about all typed out, ya'll should be proud of yourselves. Was that the goal with bombarding me with all those questions at once at like midnight? I don't think I have had one yet (jump dream though think I have been at the dz or driving to/from it) but I actually don't often remember my dreams unless I wake spontaneously, and between alarm clock or toddler waking me, doesn't happen.. *shrug* so not certain but i'd hope i'd know if and when i did! Does it "feel the same" in a dream, like, uh, other things do? I have read that dreaming is similar to visualizing whilst awake, if you can control it perhaps, in that it helps your brain cells learn how to "fire" for certain actions (esp sports music etc) but uhh might wanna stop "practicing" that 100 footer cutaway I do imagine though that the brain cells/"muscle memory" is somehow activated by doing skydiving things (i.e. cutaway-pull silver) in a dream sequence.. weirdness. Dreams fascinate me.. when did you start having them? (edit.. lol that came out wrong- the sky ones i mean haha) i guess i always used to dream about flying (no canopy but not freefall feeling, you know the ones! just jump up and off ya go- reverse of gravity kind of situation haha- but i bet they'd feel different now that I skydive because it would feel like a freefall, and i would be thinking about altitude and shit.. no more carefree floating in my dreams i suppose.. huh. that's kind of bittersweet actually.. i liked those dreams (but i do happen to like real jumping even more) blue ones, goin back to bed, think i caught a sore throat bug "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Haha wow I have like 10 questions to answer and I am supposed to be "concise".. We all know that never happens... I fluctuate between about 130 to 140 lbs. When last calculated, my exit weight is/was 155. I don't have the math in my log book in front of me and am too lazy to go find it right now, but I think it was in the 0.64 or 0.65 range on the 240 when I calculated it!! (*less* than the 0.7 you half sarcastically wrote lol) I do think there are some gender differences.. many a female's first own canopy is a 170- for many a male that may not be a great idea at all!!! I was actually having some issues w/ canopy which some staff at the dz said they believed were being caused by too light of a wing loading at my student level, level of toggle input, and my body shape and size/weight. With these other factors (mainly was hopelessly overshooting LZ and the parachute was basically flying me and not the reverse, kwim? and concerns about lack of control in winds that would not be an issue on a normal 0.8-1.0 WL as much. So, there are pros and cons on both ends. WL calculation and canopy sizing debrief was required on my A proficiency card/student training, as well as a discussion of the charts and different factors, so I did very early on figure and discuss these things for the 240, its reserve, as well as the 170M/176R set-up that I jumped rental at sunset load today and that I'll have for me in Jan. I haven't made any big decisions without tons of input from those more experienced and who have instructed me.. This decision (to shoot for an ideal canopy in the 170 main range bu A-B license range) was based after months of jumping the 240 and observing, and of discussing my techniques and needs, my landings, and when and how different canopy planforms and fabrics, and changes in speed and size, not just using wing-loading as the only relevant factor. ManagingPrime, I think you are 100% right that the important part is that we all talk to our instructors and feel comfortable with our pace- No hard feelings on my end, I appreciate your perspective, and I can see how one would initially have a question called to mind at seeing those numbers. I am glad that you are feeling good with your progression too. And I think this is important aspect of a things to talk about, and I do want you and others reading to know that it was a very specific decision with training behind it, not random.. but opinions will still vary and we all have our risk tolerance variation, but I don't feel overly exposed to risks at this wl given other safety condutions of course.. So yeah, it *is* a huge difference numerically. But then when you (*me* I mean, lol) sit down with multiple riggers and AFFIs with thousands of jumps, telling you the benefits and risks, how they differ, and explaining things like speed, flare technique, mals, turns, and especially that the difference lies not in the DIFFERENCE/number subtracted, but the actual difference of the canopies that are the starting and ending point, you see it different a bit, I realize I know very little compared to them!After discussing with other instructors and riggers, and learning that 150 or less is still considered to have some more "high-maintenance" handling traits, I decided that, with a 190 and/or 170, and definitely a slightly larger reserve than main, I am comfortable with that as are all my instructors. For what it is worth, in response to the fact that "I haven't actually landed that 190 yet.." Well, the point you make is true in that my first jump on the 190, Sunday day, ended in my landing its reserve, a completely different canopy made of F-111 and made to be docile (but, size-wise, I believe it was a PD-R 176 sq ft, so possibly actually smaller then the 190- in size/WL alone at least..) And please folks, hold the flames.. I may not have landed the 190 sport on Halloween due to cutaway situation, but I can tell you that my day *today* concluded with me landing 170 main rental canopy available at my dz, which is the same canopy I am setting up in my rig in January size/WL wise. Landed it was great, felt great with control, but of course it will take more time on the 190 and 170 to get fully comfortable. I definitely noticed on the smaller main (and also the smaller reserve landing) that the ground rush and ground speed seemed extremely intimidating, I agree you get used to a big student canopy it does feel scary- there can surely but a difference though between useful fear, and unfounded or distracting fear (just read Germain's Transcending Fear- highly recommend) So yeah it gives you a viscreal reaction to see the ground so different and fast at first, but now I now that at least so far, I actually have more flare, I know I know when to flare, etc. so I need to focus on safe landing on not let myself get distracted my the fasted groudn rush, IMHO and for me at least! But yeah without too much more debating or explaining, I totally agree with your initial response- the damn that is a big drop-down kind of feeling. But really want you, and other newer jumpers reading this thread perhaps, to know the decisions in my training have been carefully weighed and (over)analyzed by me and my instructors, and I feel good about my choices, limits, and the input i have received as well to guide those choices. ----------------------------- DSE, thank you! I would love to meet you and other folks for some training, discussion, and/or jumpage when in Lake Elsinore. I'll PM you closer to then too! As for the number of times I have inappropriately made contact with an aircraft (no, not like that!! hehe) it was just the one incident. I had only done poised exits prior, four of them, plus a tandem first jump req, where I was just releasing arms and legs into an arch after count and the two AFFIs were basically pulling me off the step at the right angle. I switched dzs shortly thereafter which also may have contributed, but mostly I did not have enough experience to know how little I knew, and had no concept that the relative wind was not going to push me away from that chunk of major hurt without a concerted effort on my part to exit out to the side, slightly back, and not up or down in any drastic direction. It was easily a major screw-up on my part, but I learned a lot from it.. People were very supportive of helping me with exit techniques so far too though, and encouraging em to keep at it when the going gets tough at times, though as you know I have very little experience- only a C182, and the PAC 750, any new exits and planes may take some retraining too1 Tailgates are the other ones that make me nervous.. But, the otter seems it would be pretty straightforward. I appreciate any help I can get on ideal Hop n Pop or emergency bailout exits- I know what i prefer to do (dive outs, occasional outside of plane float) but also know that with plane and position and situation, I cannot always get to choose that.. And would like to have more knowledge and practice with body position for hop n pops and generalized jumps.. so.. thanks again! Oh and speaking of the Cessna 182.. that was the plane in use tonight! First time and only time I have jumped the Cessna at SK-SPC actually, barring my "problem exit" earlier in the summer.. the Cessna was good to me today On the topic of the OP hop n pop jump and cutaway chain of events-- it was good to get over it and jump soon after the fist cutawar/reserve.. point being, it felt really good to get back up there and not have to wait a week, after my first cutaway.. Joe and others, I am bogged down in about 50% school and childcare, and the other half overwhelmed by obsessing about my jumpage plans haha, and/or generally lacking both time and motivation to accomplish things.. meh. Winter begins... I do believe it is indeed my turn for a letter to my fellow WI "pen pal?" so keep an eye out for one from m this week- love to catch up And thanks for the congrats. One more weekend of the PAC at SK-POC-- come one down if you have an off week from work? All are welcome.. well all cool people Ok well I seriously am exhasuted and probably making no sense now, am definitely officially feeling the exhaustion creep in.. off I go to my warm cozy bed.. so, i hope I answered your questions, maybe when I have more wakefulness energy I will make a yes/no question/answer version haha.. and sorry if this tired rambling makes no sense at all. but quite seriously, as a writer it does take me twice as long to edit down after you "stream consciousness" and get all your thought on paper first.. oh well, hope at least some of you can read it. I guess overall, I was the only hop and pop, I did land the 170 as well, and am very comfortable with the training given for my canopy progression so far.. just looking forward to getting my custom rig woo hoo! Oh and I did NOT pack the cutaway, don;t know who did or whether part of the two main mals were linked to less than ideal body position either. I have pcked baout 10 mains, some for practice, and jumped all mine (4) last weekend Sunday.. nice openings so far, so that;s a good feeling too

I was the first and only hop and pop, no one was waiting except those going up to 14k! They had a ways to go yet lol. I sat closest to door (right bench seat in PAC750), got onto floor around 1.5k, after seat belts off at 1k and got my helmet and goggles ready by around 2.5k, another gear/pin check, then yellow came on for door around 3.5k. I requested a 3.5 H/P but usually they take you to 4-4.5 (no complaints here.. I know they just like to have the lower one in to get you used to emergency exits and canopy control jumps, an extra thousand is a good thing if anything ) I called "door" when red went to yellow at about 3.5-3.7k, opened, spotted, occasional glances up and to the right, where the light is mounted, while holding the overhead bar for support when leaning out (I am a bit timid and need to really lean out, but I am getting better). I was kind of doing a little "dance"- look out for airport and glance up to the right while pulling back a bit to check light status, glance left at alti, and head back out to look for other airplanes, the airport, etc. That was the cycle of 3 things I recall alternating, it could have taken a few seconds longer than an experienced jumper, but I would think if you asked someone on the load, they would not say that I freaked out or neglected to exit beyond maybe a few extra seconds.. Now note that it doesn't mean anyone fucked up or anything, just means I am inexperienced and directionally challenged, and was on a different side of the airport than the past 4 or 5 HPs I did.. But, to answer your question, in a long version lol (I am so bad.. caffeine, my god. I have been up all night alternating studying and skydive blabbing on here.. forgive my indiscretions please ) Yes-- I was both first out, the only jumper in charge of the hop and pop except the experienced/rated jumper I had asked to do my gear check for me before exiting, and the only low exit on the load- everyone else went to 13.5-14.5k. Were you thinking if there were multiple hop and pops it could have added to the concern about exit time and order? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

You are quite possibly right.. part of my brain tells me that I glanced in and back, and saw the actual transition (yellow to green) as I was moving into position, but your brain gets foggy at those crucial moments.. I know I was looking to check its status every little while, but what felt like a brief check could have been longer than I thought, as a new jumper.. and it was indeed a slightly different view, so yeah, I was still in "look for the airport and see what is below me while trying to keep one eye on the switching of the light and position myself well in the door" multi-task mode! I think I probably did just take longer to recognize it, though it really did not feel like it, and its all relative.. since I was looking out the door, and it did weird me out a bit not seeing the airport where i initially thought it should be, it was my first time opening the door and spotting and all that alone too so plenty of factors there.. could have distracted me from reacting quite as promptly.. Thanks for the alternate explanation. A "yay, you can jump now!" exclamation is *much* happier than a "get out the god-damn plane, you asshole" exclamation. Lol. That said, I stand by my position that the door/exit can be a distracting place, and is a crucial part of the skydive (a lesson which cost me over 5k, some new teeth, and a month lay-off this summer) and as you mention, whether or not they give a light and/or a cut, communication, etc. can make it more or less risky, and can vary (but I really hope even when it varies they are good about communication.. that is just as much my job though as the pilots, so I guess the lesson too is be proactive..) So yeah- my vote goes saying nothing-- especially if there is no extreme delay, and no legit spotting/wind/out landing concerns. Or, at *least* to apply to AFF and student jumpers minimum (not a BSR by any means, I simply refer to accepted cultural standard in my preferences here)- because even if you mean well, which you sure well might and your train of thought makes sense to me, any loud or unexpected/sharp sounding words are going to throw another variable/pressure at a student who may have enough to contemplate, and potential to mess with their concentration-- a newbie like me, though I have come far since my spring days lol, is someone who already has other things on their mind, to get out that door stable and safe, and deploy a functioning parachute, ya know? And if I hear a loud GO, I want to be confident that it's time to fuck looking at the colored lights or playing with my helmet strap and get the fuck out so the plane doesn't kill us all.. ya know? It's all communication I guess.. I guess for me, if something is really taking more than a few seconds and I am legitimately creating an issue (for me, or others), a simple reminder of the word "green" would work- that way you are helpfully letting them know that the light is green, but not giving a COMMAND like "go" which makes you feel like you are under pressure or being told to act. Plus, it's my generation's mindset of green light and GPS- yes green light just came on, but I still better be able to see where I am and know there is no plane flying underneath me before I have any intent of hurtling out, so I think there is a happy medium, and I do appreciate your input. But I think even the "otter babies" (and I probably count though I've never jumped one, just a PAC) know that green means go when you feel safe to go, it doesn't mean the be all and end all of exiting an aircraft.. but, it is a pretty damn good hint And honestly, it was not malicious in my eyes, in this case.. I think people just get amped up and don't think things through to the extent others of us do lol. For example, I know I have gotten excited for a new AFF student and gave them a handshake before getting out, and some instructors don't like that, which I respect and understand- but at the time, then, you might not be looking through the lens of, what if I distract them as they are visualizing-- you just think, oh you are a fellow jumper and that you are being useful or friendly or encouraging. While they (or their AFFI/coach) might not see it the same way! So I get the point- well made, and I can relate

Agreed. I actually asked last week and someone pm'ed me the answer, that it is this: __:__:__ format, which is how many times you got laid and how many jumps you made, and the third is how many things you owe beer for.. but i think it could also be how many beers you drank. The problem is that people tend to put a vague (or highly loaded) emoticon for #1 (I'm guilty here too) and then use a beer symbol often as #3! Or 2 and 3 overlap, since if you describe the jumps, it is self-evident which resulted in beer. And come on, who wants just numbers without at least a li'l bit of a story? Am I alone on that? There is a fine line before the mods spank ya though I suppose.. I'll try to focus I do really like catching up on the weekend's jumpage with folks here though, and jumps are, well, fairly key to that lol, but of course, sex and beer are equally relevant to skydiving as we all know, so we must make an effort not to neglect our reporting of these important concepts in future threads. Aye aye captain. Lol. Time for sleep... "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

When in doubt you owe beer? I'll plead the 5th thank you very much. But wait, if you owe a case for the first time skimping out on your beer dues.. is that the same case, or a second one? And do you actually buy either of them? My brain hurts... lol. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

yeah those laws suck. i didnt even know i was going to get my license this weekend or i would have. it's a pretty good excuse to go back next weekend! Well listen to this- I wasn't sure if I would get mine last weekend or this weekend (edit-- A not B, but same concept), so I bought my case (good microbrew too!) and left it there with sharpie all over stating "save for A license, do not drink this beer!" Now, I guess I have learned my lesson about leaving beer on a dz, and about the level of self-control that comes with that, but sure enough, arrive yesterday to legitimately earn my A license and my case has disappeared. So now, another case for that so I can partake with everyone (they said it didn't count since I didn't drink and hang WITH them), plus beer for the cutaway and liquor for the rigger... lol. Moral of the story- count yourself lucky that you will at least be late and partake, rather than early and miss out, lol. I still think those laws are ridiculously archaic. Like, wow, it's ok to get wasted, as long as you plan in advance and make your purchases on one of the other six days of the week? Ha. Ridiculous. Sorry to hear you have to put up with that! But, when you get it, enjoy it to the last drop Congrats again! someone stole from you at the DZ and you're ok with it? I would not be resupplying the case, (a beer for coaches etc.. but not a case) I'd also be looking for the thieves. Well.. in all honesty I was warned very explicitly that if I left beer at the DZ it would be drank. (Though I also sort of thought he was half joking and that if I wrote its purpose with a sharpie it would be different.. oh well) I did leave it there full well knowing that there was a reasonable chance it would no longer exist when I did get the A the next weekend. I guess I didn't think of it as stealing, just general skydiver shenanigans and debauchery. Perhaps I am more tolerant than some.. but ya know, I do have a toddler, and cannot often stay out too late and shoot the shit with people, so at least those who don't have kids yet and still have that chance enjoyed it!!

yeah those laws suck. i didnt even know i was going to get my license this weekend or i would have. it's a pretty good excuse to go back next weekend! Well listen to this- I wasn't sure if I would get mine last weekend or this weekend (edit-- A not B, but same concept), so I bought my case (good microbrew too!) and left it there with sharpie all over stating "save for A license, do not drink this beer!" Now, I guess I have learned my lesson about leaving beer on a dz, and about the level of self-control that comes with that, but sure enough, arrive yesterday to legitimately earn my A license and my case has disappeared. So now, another case for that so I can partake with everyone (they said it didn't count since I didn't drink and hang WITH them), plus beer for the cutaway and liquor for the rigger... lol. Moral of the story- count yourself lucky that you will at least be late and partake, rather than early and miss out, lol. I still think those laws are ridiculously archaic. Like, wow, it's ok to get wasted, as long as you plan in advance and make your purchases on one of the other six days of the week? Ha. Ridiculous. Sorry to hear you have to put up with that! But, when you get it, enjoy it to the last drop Congrats again! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Well, you asked, but it's a novel... Sorry, I don't know how to make a clicky! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3984521;page=unread#unread Basically a brake fire and twisted around brake line above the toggle, opening into a hard right hand spin, fixed that, and it's still not controllable, so i lookup again, closer, and see what we believe was a partial line-over on the left. Chopped at 3k, reserve landing was one of my best landings yet, and the landing that earned me my A (I find that utterly hilarious), and the main landed right on the lz too! Threw the D ring though-- oops But if that's the worst that happened I am NOT complaining!! So sorry to hear 'bout about your slammer- yikes!! At least you have some karma in your karma box now! That is a scary thing to see, I bet. Especially so close to door/exit time!! Sounds like most everyone had some awesome jumps for the holiday weekend- woohoo! (except pinkfairy.. sorry to hear it Gotta make it up there soon before it's too cold woman! --ok ok I know it's never "too cold" for a real skydiver, but I'm a wimp) Congrats on the B, thrillstalker!! BEER! blue ones, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

\ woohoo... wanna help me out? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks billvon! Yeah I am not yet well enough educated with the mechanics of the lines and cells and all to say for sure, but we (at the dz) seem to have deduced it was a "lesser" type of line over, what you describe as a partial, with a steering line involved, because it was only a portion of the left of the canopy affected.. You are right though, we'll never really know.. body position is only one factor among many (shit, I deployed in an uncontrolled flail at about 2.5-3k on my second attempt at a L3 release dive and wound up with only a few line twists!) I do find it interesting that it was a left side brake fire/toggle fuck-up, and also line-over issues on that left side- wonder if they played into each other (or is that an obvious question, because the tension on the lines would be different/linked during deployment.. duh lol). It's quite possible if I played around a bit I may have been able to fix it, I guess I'll never know for sure (but, I am happy I chopped it!!) Yeah with a bit more altitude though I possibly could have gotten a bit more aggressive with it.. I think the spin and shaky feeling freaked me out, and I actually do have the opposite problem of many skydivers (I am overly conservative, not the other way around, with inputs.. still not good, but at least I don't think you'll read about me doing a low hook turn in incidents..) I did make one single attempt to pressurize, but perhaps not as aggressively as I could have. It is possible that could have done it if I was more aggressive and kept at it; with my experience level I had no idea, but I felt that once I had tried a few things and not gotten it figured out at that point, I did not want to waste time that could (was!) used for prepping to fly a new canopy (the reserve) and getting used to flaring it, playing around with its responses, etc.. by 3k I guess i felt I had done all I was comfortable doing at my level, and didn't think it was fixable/land-able, but had it been, I could have found that out too low for my comfort! Thanks for the insight on the situation.. are you generally wanting to use both toggles, or mostly inputs on the side that is screwy? I couldn't remember and that is a big part of why I may have been timid with an attempt to pressurize it and fix the line, because I did not want to damage the canopy or worsen the situation (though realistically, when you are on the brink of a cutaway, it's hard to "worsen" things too much haha) ------------ As for the downsize, what happened was they wanted to get me transitioned to the 210 one or two months ago, and have me on 190 or 170 by now, but I tried them on at the time and they were too loose in the legs, so I was relegated to jumping the 240 until my rig arrived. Then we had a bunch of AFFs yesterday, and we were fighting (nicely) over the small-harnessed 240, and they said to give the 190 a try again- and it actually did fit (I don't know the deal, whether the person who tried it on with me before was mistaken about proper fit, if I didn't pull the leg straps all the way when I first tried it on? *shrug* And NO I didn't gain 30 pounds lol (I hope!) I mean, I couldn't tighten them as much as I am used to on the 240, but it was snug/safe, no worries. I had been having major issues w/ overshooting and floating away on landings, and my rigger and instructors speculated that a big part of that was the wing loading on the student 240-- a 0.65:1 Since landing *location/accuracy* was the issue (not my ability to flare properly or safely) my instructors/mentors said they actually thought I would be safer and more successful on something a little closer to 0.9-1:1; it was just a matter of thinking (erroneously, probably because I was being a dumbass when I first tried it on) that none of the smaller mains had harnesses that could fit in the leg straps. Thus we thought I needed to keep with a 240 longer than otherwise ideal. As someone else said, I am actually now still well below 1:1.. and while a reserve is obviously a different beast, both size of this one, and general construction and piloting, I felt comfortable landing it, both pattern/location, and the flare (at least it was a low winder hop n pop. so no "out" reserve landings for me! (yet) Also, yes I did put Sabre2 in the profile, but I shouldn't assume that is accurate for certain. It might not actually have been a S2- I was guessing until I find out for sure, since my understanding is that students fly Navs and transition/rentals are Sabre2s.. but not completely confident in that so don't quote me! As I said I and others seem to think that I am pretty conservative canopy pilot (sometimes too conservative with toggle corrections or pattern adjustments, but I'm gettin' there!), and don't plan to "downsize" (beyond the transition to my 170/176R next season w/ my own gear) but I do think it's a good wing loading based on the charts I have read, and based on my instructors' feedback.. I'd say no if I felt uncomfortable, but I do trust my instructors and riggers, and I felt/feel good with the decision.. (well, unless there is a crucial piece of info that I lack, lol- but my experience leads me to think it was a good and safe call, and experienced folks discussed w/ me..) I do agree, though, that it is a huge-sounding decrease-- 50 sq ft difference! But as one rigger explained to me, it's not just the *difference* between them in sq ft, it is the other factors like the properties of the canopies in question, the wing-loadings involved, and the sizes being compared as well (i.e. a 240 to a 190 is much less scary than a 150 to a 104 though the second is actually a smaller change in WL!) Thanks for your input all!! I like that others look out for folk here (and at the non-cyber dz too), and am always open to input and ideas about safety etc. Ok I have written another novel, time to go spank myself.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Well, I will say that overall the amazing people FAR outweigh the idiots- but it is still not okay! I will say I switched dzs at 5 jumps and am more than happy to drive the extra thirty miles to get there.. it's worth it! I have had two "go" experiences in the door in 30 jumps- and I agree with the poster who says there is no reason to hesitate too long in the door.. but, at risk of flaming for sharing an opinion like this at my experience level, I do think it is highly inappropriate for a jumper on student status especially, and who has experienced an injury on exit in the past, for anyone to add pressure in the door unless it is a life or death situation like pilot calling to get out NOW. I was not just sitting on my ass either, I opened the door, looked out, and literally within 1-2 seconds, almost simultaneously, the light went yellow to green, and the shout of "go" came forth as I was crouching to exit poised (yellow had been on till then and I was looking for the airport). But really I need to realize that people are gonna do it on occasion whether I like it or not, and I don't feel I have any authority to bitch them out over it.. it sucks, but I can only control myself, not anyone else. I guess barring a radical cultural shift in the "go go go" mindset that pops up on occasion, I just have to access that inner focus on the skydive, that others should not be able to take away from me. Still I see it as a chain of events- the nervousness at the go and quick unstable exit could have contributed to the additional issues with the main and thus the cutaway-- but you can't over-analyze that shit to death, and I am not mad at anyone. (And no, I make NO implication that any comment made by anyone was the root cause of the cutaway- just pointing out more rhetorically how seemingly little things all add up to create situations, in any setting really not just jumping!) Looking back I actually considered closing the door and riding the plane down to make a point LOL, but when you are put on the spot like that, it f'ing sucks. But in their defense, SK-SPC folk are some of the most passionate, helpful, and giving people I have ever met. (That said-- stfu when a student is in the door, ya'll!! ) ------------- Oh and ridestrong.. I wouldn't say I am timid in the door teehee.. though it is possible that since I am pretty new at spotting I took longer than I thought or the green came on sooner than I noticed the shift, but I don't think so.. but yeah- I can't wait to get the frick out of that plane lol. My nerves have shifted now from exit fears, to pull/opening fears. But maybe now that I have handled that too, it'll be less nerve-wracking.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks guys (Nova )!! Yeah that was actually a short one for me! Thanks for the feedback and congrats. It's good to have it over and done for the first time. I did think about that- that the falling handle could be damaging at that speed from that height, as mentioned, but at least I knew I was the only hop n pop and pretty much right over the dz (at least that's where the main landed-- I wasn't as aware of my location as I should be when I realized I had a potential cutaway on my hands ) Even a soft reserve pud caused issues, huh? Yeah I can totally relate to what you were saying, fcajump- it's almost shock/disbelief, like, you've gone over it so many times verbally, and done the motions without *actually* pulling them, that you're like, wait, I am actually needing to do this now? lol Ksudiver87, ROFL It is a PAC dz, though they have a cessna running instead from-mid November to late March. I would absolutely love to ask for a go-around, in the PAC, as the only hop n pop on the (very full) load.. awesomeness. I may have to do that someday just for the hell of it! I think they'd have thrown me out though But I guess I'll be optimistic and just assume that they didn't want me to get a long spot (yeah yeah kinda hard to do on a hop n pop at 4k, with winds at less than 5... but let's just pretend) Thanks guys!! Blue ones, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

:2:3 How is it that you can owe more beer than jumps!? Well, one might be a liquor bottle actually for my reserve rigger.. we'll see. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi