Albert18

But Orange1, I don't have a theory.

I'm just trying to make sense of the information we have. If part of the money is found then that would suggest to me Cooper died that night. But then the FBI says the money wasn't exposed to the elements for a very long time period and was deposited to it's found location years after the hijacking. I don't know what to make of that information.

Some of the FBI thinking does give me pause though.

For example, on several occasions Ckret said they thought Cooper planned to jump immediately after the plane took off from Seattle.

But Cooper didn't start putting the gear on until after he sent Tina to the front of the airplane. He sent her to the front after the airplane had taken off. If he was planning to exit the airplane around Seattle wouldn't he have been ready to go before the airplane took off?

I think what Safecrack is saying Orange1 is that if the bag doesn't float for very long, how did it travel so far in the water. And then wash up somewhere.

I also don't see it where info by jumpers is being ignored. What I do see is where the difficulty of this jump is being overstated.

Here is a simple question. If we recreated Cooper's jump using 100 jumpers, what percent of them would die? Are we talking 80%, 90%? Isn't the real answer probably closer to 0%.

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I guess I am just an idiot - but I think it is do-able.

Well McCoy did it and he said it was a piece of cake.

A bullet killed McCoy, not the ground.

I don't know why the money would leave the airplane at a different time than Cooper. Plus Tina said she saw him working on securing the money to himself.

This case makes me think of the movie Apollo 13. In that movie Jim Lovell was worried about the accuracy of some data he had to manually input into the computer so he asked Houston to verify his numbers. He realized those numbers better be right.

Does that same concern for accuracy exist in this case.

For example, that professor's findings about the money location are critical. Did the FBI get a second opinion? My guess is no.

Was the analysis of the money a topnotch job or had the FBI given up on the case by then? The findings on that money have a huge impact on the case.

Skyjack71, you ask why the dropzone and timeline might change? Because of the location of the money!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember how we were always told Cooper jumped into the wilderness and died. They would have had him floating all the way to northern Idaho, if that is what it would have taken to explain why he was never found.

Then the money was found.

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I have made enough jumps out of a variety of jets, at altitudes ranging from pattern to Class A, in rain, snow and sleet, and into unlighted dropzones in total darkness carrying heavy loads. I am much better than average at aviation navigation and spotting, with decades of experience in both.

Isn't the fact you are on this forum posting mean you survived those jumps.

This info tells me what?

Consider this Sluggo, where Cooper walked on the airplane in Portland and the area where he jumped are very close. Yet this is considered a coincidence.

I will repeat that, the point where he started the hijacking and the point where he bailed are very close. If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is.

You have to remember the authorities didn't even know he had left the airplane until after it had landed in Reno. That was after 10PM. There was no search for him that night. The aircrew of that flight did the FBI no favors.

How that aircrew could sit up in the cockpit while some nut is in the back with what could have been a real bomb and make no attempt to know what he is doing, is one of the things I find incredible in this story. They had to assume the bomb is real and why would they think he would take it with him. Isn't it possible he would activate the bomb and then jump.

The aircrew in the McCoy case was much more proactive and the results showed.

Boy, that area around Fargher Lake looks like some vicious country doesn't it.

When you look at all the farmland along the flightpath in this area, you start to understand why the FBI needed such strong winds blowing him to the east/northeast and for him to open his chute the instant he jumped.

The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

The way I see it, the FBI isn't going to solve this case unless somebody comes up with a man and a substantial amount of evidence against the guy. Since we don't have the fingerprints from the plane, I don't know how anybody can get enough evidence to convince the FBI to really look at somebody.

Here is where I think the FBI is with this case today.

Cooper must have died when he jumped because they didn't find him and they didn't find him because he died in the jump. If he had lived they would have gotten him like McCoy.

I don't know how anybody can argue with that logic.

So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

V23 runs right over Toutle.

If you look at the top of the flight plan map that has been posted, you will see the number 2005 written on the map. To the north of 2005 that lake the flight path is going over is Silver Lake. I believe that small dot just to the east of the flight path, at the very top of the map, is Toutle.

So apparently the placard was found in the vicinity of V23.

The write-up at crimelibrary says the FBI recalculated the flight path and moved it to the west of I-5 with the jump around Woodland, Washington. And Scott told them he was to the west of their first flight path. I don't know if any of that is true. Maybe they re-penciled the flight path after the money was found.

Of course, if the jump is at Woodland, you still can't get the money upstream. And if you move the flight path that far west then there is no way you can get the plane over to those other watersheds. I believe Scott said he flew just to the west of the Portland airport, which keeps him to the west.

If you have the placard falling out of the plane around the Silver Lake/Toutle area and the plane to the west of I-5, then the money find makes a lot of sense, but the jump must have been later than they thought.

If the original flight path is that far off then they must have been pencilling it in from sombodies notes.

Is the I-5 corridor north of Portland wilderness?

This was one of the myths perpetuated all these years and was the excuse why his body wasn't found. He jumped and died in the woods to the northeast. Then some of the money is found way to the southwest. Oops.

So now we need a wolf to carry the money bag into the correct drainage area.

As that one guy was pointing out in his posts. The flight path, exit time and money location don't reconcile.

Skyjack71 I don't know whether Duane did it or not. I sort of think Cooper survived the jump so that is one plus for Duane.

I always thought the Bing Crosby sketch looked like Bobby Darin. Maybe the Rat Pack orchestrated this and they were trying to frame Bobby Darin or Bing.

My guess is Cooper knew he couldn't let the FBI get their hands on that briefcase so he couldn't leave it on the airplane or throw it out the back. So he tied the money to himself and then jumped hugging the briefcase. It almost worked. He landed with the briefcase but not the money.

The FBI wasn't going to solve this crime from the evidence so they had to be given a person and then try to match that person to Cooper. The sketch either wasn't good enough for people to make the connection to Cooper or since Cooper made it out, people who knew him knowingly didn't turn him in or his real name was given to the FBI but they didn't make the connection.

In about every cold case I have read about the original investigators had the name of the person, they just failed to make the connection. Usually that failure was due to inertia.

Another problem with him dying that night is no family or friends have come forward. I don't know what to make of that.

As we have seen over the years, people would like to have a family member or a friend be Dan Cooper. I seriously doubt this was a guy living under a bridge somewhere who had lost all contact with other people.

This was a huge media event and a drawing is released of him and he appeared to be familiar with the area so he must have had some local contact. Yet the FBI apparently doesn't get any credible leads.

This makes no sense.

So this makes me question the physical description, the sketch, and the shoe description.

My guess is the FBI took too seriously the descriptions they were given and filtered the guy out.

My point about the shoes is that this was not a skydiving event, it was a crime. And this was not a minor crime that involved a few deputy sheriffs or local cops. Cooper activated the FBI, the FAA, the Air Force, the National Guard, local law enforcement and who knows who else. He would have known this and so had to make decisions accordingly. People look at how Cooper was dressed, the fact he didn't bring his own equipment, and his decision making and assume he was inexperienced or didn't know what he was getting into or was flying by the seat of his pants. This may be true but I see a different possibilty.

Maybe there were some very valid reasons for his decision making.

He had to limit the number of eyeballs on him as a very accurate description could doom him. My guess is he did a very good job here. This is the reason for the business suit. Sure it would have been better to show up for the flight wearing boots, hunting clothes, goggles, and a helmet, but he had to blend in. Notice how he started the hijacking. The passengers didn't know the airplane was being hijacked and so they weren't eyeballing him. Then he got them off the plane.

He had to limit the physical evidence. There is virtually no physical evidence except the tie and my guess is the tie was an oversight on his part. He took his hijacking note back and he took the briefcase with him. For his comfort it would have been much better to leave the briefcase but it would have been a treasure trove of physical evidence for the FBI. I believe this is also the reason he didn't bring his own gear. This gear isn't something you pick up at a Kmart and it would have been a disaster for him to bring his own equipment and then have the FBI get their hands on it. I assume he was going to ditch the gear upon landing and gear they provided couldn't be traced back to him.

He asked to have the stairs down at takeoff and it is concluded from this that he meant to jump soon after takeoff. I doubt this. I think he wanted the stairs down because they were his only exit point. Sitting on the runway in Seattle he was basically blind as to what was going on around him. He had to be worried they could do something to those stairs from the outside that would prevent them from being opened after the plane was airborne. Being on the ground in Seattle was his most vulnerable time. If he couldn't get the stairs down it would require another landing somewhere and his risk goes sky high. If the stairs are down at takeoff he knows there won't be a problem.

Cooper wasn't specific about the gear he was given or the flight path. I think Cooper made a logical decision that this was going to be a complex crime. The more he micro-managed the crime, the greater his risk. I think Cooper highlighted key areas and for the rest he decided he would go with the flow. The more he dictates the more info he gives the FBI.

The weather was bad and a negative for him. The weather that night was not only not a negative but was essential for his success. I assume he picked that date because of the weather. The weather kept the authorities off his back until the next day.

He boards the plane in Portland, flies to Seattle, then jumps when the plane comes back towards Portland. From this people assume he jumped blind. I doubt this. I assume he wanted first hand knowledge of the weather between Portland and Seattle and he knew the plane would be coming down this corridor after it left Seattle. We do not know if the pilot had suggested flying to Reno via Boise, he would have accepted that. I think he knew from the southerly direction and elevation he would be flying over the area Bill Walton made famous. My guess is he wanted to land somewhere on the compass around Portland.

I think Cooper knew any chink in his armor and the FBI would get him. Because of this I think he took meticulous steps to limit his exposure. For example I assume he got to the Portland airport in such a way nobody would remember him arriving. That means no taxi. So did he live in Portland or did he just set up a temporary headquarters?

What I can't figure out is how he planned on blending in after the landing. After a major crime like this, anybody seen strolling up a road, walking across a field, walking off a road into a gas station wearing a suit and having wind blown hair, could raise suspicions. There must have been a ground plan. And did he have a chance to use that ground plan?

Isn't the guy calling people Whuffos the same person who thinks Cooper died because he wasn't wearing the right shoes? Holy Fright!

People like Clint Eastwood and Rambo don't just exist in the movies. There are people out there with ice water in their veins, they are as tough as nails, and they laugh at danger.

A guy who can sit calmly and politely, in a business suit, while the plane is on the ground in Seattle and law enforcement is swarming all around, probably isn't going to start crying when he gets a little wind in his face.

If he came forward he could still be prosecuted. They basically indicted the name "Dan Cooper" so the statute of limitations don't apply. It is a weird legal technicality.

After all these years he is still a hot potato.

I don't agree that the FBI necessarily botched this investigation back in the 70's. I have a high opinion of the abilities of Cooper and I think the case is unsolved because of the decisions he made when he committed this crime.

It was an audacious crime. Think about what he did.

When he gave Flo the note, he really was telling the FBI that he was going to commit a crime, what kind of crime it was going to be, and where he could be found committing the crime. The crime then took many hours to unfold. Then he disappeared into the night.

I think Cooper knew what had to happen for him to get away with this crime. He knew he had to cut it close to the edge and that is what he did. I think he knew he risked being killed by the jump but he also knew that if he walked away from the landing, his chances were very good.

The Dan Cooper case is one of the most fascinating crimes of the 20th century. If Cooper's identity was revealed tomorrow, the news would make the front page of newspapers around the world. So I am completely baffled by the hostile reception this discussion has received on this forum. Because of the nature of the crime, a discussion of it belongs on any aviation forum, skydiving forum, and crime forum.

I really think there is only one way to find out the identity of Dan Cooper. Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold. If he is still alive then he beat the odds and while he doesn't deserve a ticker tape parade, he does deserve the spirit of the statute of limitations be upheld.