skygypsie

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Personal finance is one of the most important skills a person will use in their lifetime. But why is it that this extremely important skill is not taught to High School kids? It's probably not taught because the teachers themselves are clueless to this topic. Unless the parents instill this ever so important skill to their kids from an early age (which they should be doing), when these kids grow up and leave home for University (or leave home for whatever else) they have no concept as to what is good debt, what is bad debt and how it all should be managed.

We live in a "I want it now, how much will my payment be?" society versus "I want it, I will save for it and once I have saved enough money for it, I will buy it". I am as guilty as the next person. Two years ago I purchased my German made 911 sports car. At the time I asked myself, can I wait the two years to save up the money? and I said fuck it I bought it on credit. Of course this is my only debt (I am lucky enough that over the years I paid off my mortgage in full and have no debt except for my car). Anyway, society's parents have failed their children in regard to personal finance, because somewhere down the line in the last 20-40 years parents stopped being good parents in preparing their children for the world. Monkey see, monkey do. I want it now ... how much will my payments be?

But I guess having multiple Liberal Art History degrees and a student debt of 100k is much more important than knowing the difference between debt and a deficit. Society is heading downhill real fast and it all can be traced to poor parenting.

Absolutely agreed, it starts with the parenting, or lack of sit down, explain as you go...guidance on life's skills &/or consequences !
However, I don't hold teachers accountable.
Just earlier this year; yes, gathered from a newscast, Texas schools & boards were to hold & decide the standard, nationwide, what material would be cut, or continued in the national curriculum !
Regardless of how Lucky, or Billvon see it, this thread's intent was not intended as a political bashing, nor of who's best suited, but since it keeps unscrewing towards that,
I'll ' lefty lucy' my comments towards it !
Since, most who are parents of the same age group of young up & coming adults; referred to, are the same parents who've voted in the last 2 administrations, where do we go from here ?
But, then again what were our options ?
Personally, it was obvious, stick with the party administration that wasn't working, or either take my chances to a 'shake it up' electee by staying true to my party !
I am affirmed in my feeling there are NO electees, nor elected, who are true to the People as a whole.
They ALL have only their own agendas, but feel free to cause & effect decisions that harm the people as a whole ! Though, the special interests groups, corporate america & migratory voters obviouslly stand to, & do, benefit from decisions of both administrations.
We have absolutely no control, nor say so, of what or how, these elected administrator's decide, nor spend. We have just hoped for the best outcome.
Defensive voting hasn't helped, voting within our Party hasn't helped.
I've considered myself a Democrat for the last 35 years !
That brings us back to the grass roots of parenting, AND foresight, rather than after thought, of the need for responsibilty in the up & coming silver spooned, or plastic spooned, adults who will be making OUR decisions, down the road !
Maybe "NO" needs to be said from the get go...to the tots, young adults & to ALL who are looking for the hand out, or bail out !
I stand true to 'paying your dues', before you're entitled to receive, in all aspects of life !

Thanks "Skipbelt"...until now felt no need to post any longer !
RE: to RE: Andy 908... how does one respond to senselessness?

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You're quite the angry person, aren't you? Whatever; talk to the hand.

damn right I'm mad & scared to death...full of cancer & still packing my ass off. when those hands you say to talk to, cover the eyes of so many...scared to death ( & this is as to the why I bring my sons & grandkids in the picture "GeorgiaDon" )...scared to death for their future, when I can't, & won't be here to help them out.
Are you going to have their backs ?...or you?...or you?...or you?
and to you "Billvon"..I guess I do " bite the hands, that feed me !"
Enough said...you all have a good day...
~ Blessings n' BlueSkies ~

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Since when is being concerned about the financial state of this Country, given the hand outs of todays Administration, or the future of those same group of young adults, their offspring & to those who've already paid their dues...HYPOCRITICAL ?

Right, so this was a, "I hate Obama" thread in disguise. You guys haven't become more creative, altho you think you have been.

Student loans have been going on for decades, but you now just assign them to Obama in Brilliant.

Tell me what Obama / admin has spent money on, esp that GWB didn't. Tell me how it was wasteful.

Whao...down boy !
Ok, so we're going off thread abit ...
I voted for Obama ! I said I AM a Democrat !
You are right, I stand corrected when I isolated my statement as: " this Administration" !
There was not one thing about GWB, I condoned.
His condescending & smug, smirk was as despicable as he was as Commander in Chief !
Let's just say I can't figure out where all this money being 'loaned' out for bail outs is coming from, continuing on in this Administration !
Or why ?
Ya can't continue to borrow from Peter, to pay Paul, without Mary starting to get a r@g on!
I went back to College when I was 48 to become a Nurse. Thank God for MY student loans !
I agree most college students couldn't get by without the Government's aid, keeping in mind Government means " we the people" !
Quite a few parents can no longer foot the bill.
I'm sure obtaining any kind of job, while attending school is few & far between. I get that !
Every individual deserves assistance when applicable, or entitled.
It is the abuse of the entitlements, and indication of some of the young adults trends, that gives me concern.
Afterall, these same young adults; party to the abuse, may be those we all rely on in the future to pick up the pieces !

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I just heard on a newscast today,...

Quit watching/listening to Fox, Newsmax, Limbaugh, etc

Actually, I heard it on a radio news broadcast from local dj, from our local radio station !
I'm totally aware of gov't fed media propaganda !
Again, I'm a product of the 60's-70's...all too familiar with the Viet Nam -v-Westmoreland-v- LBJ induced propaganda of the time, throughout, to include current events !

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You realize your posts are, on several levels, damned near un-readable. Just a friendly FYI.
Now go ahead and rant back; whatever.

What are you, the grammar police, now ?

Why do you bother to read them ?

What part of the Country are you from, And-Man ?

I'm from Wisconsin !

We all; or I should say, I mostly 'communicate'

long and detailed .

It is a little bit like the all too familiar and

typical, lawyer double talking rhetoric.

I'm not your fr@#%ing legal secretary !

There ! This is double spaced, standard font,

correct punctuation, with no slang.

Is that readable enough for you ?

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I'd say 90% of all 1st time tandem & s/l jumps are college students, I've experienced in my 4 yrs. as a fulltime DZ Staffer.

So, from this it would be safe to say that a substantial portion of the revenue that keeps your DZ in business, and that pays you as a "fulltime DZ Staffer", comes from the exact source that you are criticizing. Do you interrogate clients to see how they are paying for their jump, so you can offer them the benefit of your accumulated financial wisdom, or do you just take their money and whine behind their backs? If the latter, wouldn't that be rather hypocritical?

Don

I was just waiting for a RE from someone who can't see beyond the nose on his face !
Since when is being concerned about the financial state of this Country, given the hand outs of todays Administration, or the future of those same group of young adults, their offspring & to those who've already paid their dues...HYPOCRITICAL ?
This thread has nothing to do with my financial, nor lack of financial wisdom.
It was based on a NEWS CAST !
Do I "interrogate" clients ? Of course not !
Do most of these same paying for their jump with these funds often take the extra 'splurge' to spend the extra $75-125 to get video ? You bet, they do ?
Do videographers / TI's get somewhat 'personably acquainted' when rigging up, or interviewing each student? Of course they do !
Have you ever been on the packing floor up to 14 hrs. /day with large groups of 'students' waiting to go up, or who've just completed their jump, listening to the hub bub while you're packing load after load ?
Most all 1st timers are nervous with fear, &/or giddy with anxiety & excitement...you wouldn't believe what comes out their mouths !
Based on your jumps numbers, years in sport, & profession...probably unlikely !
*Personal Note: I just love the 'weekend warrior' who knows the ins & outs to DAILY DZ operations & /or cliental !

FYI: This OP is 53.
I've more than paid my dues & then some, & TAXES.
I have a 36 yr.old, & 29 yr.old Son & 13, 10, & 8 yrs.old grandkids.
I pack circles around most 20 yr.olds, At times up to 14 hrs/day, 7 days/ wk., 6 mos., straight !
Do I hope there is some stability, or funds left for me as I reach my 'entitlements', but more importantly for my Son's; who've also done their fair share at paying their dues & Taxes, thus far...& their children ? Abso 'frickin' lutely !!!
They, nor I have ever asked for, rec'd, nor taken a free ride for anything, nor had, nor expected to be 'bailed out' when we got our teats in a wringer. My Son's have worked & I mean worked for everything they have, there entire lives. Both have stayed with the same ONE girl & have long relationships & marriages. The wisdom I will own up to is hard work & commitments.
My Son's can own that. as well !
I explained I was appreciative for the work & students, did I not ?
Do I feel I have the right to be concerned, or bitch ?
You bet I do !
Oh, & BTW: I'm a democrat...now, there's HYPOCRITICAL, for ya !!!

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Ummm, yeah, you been getting baked too much?... ... study your 4-Way blocks!

nah, not anymore, it's been a long time since I've done any baking...& sorry some tech is above my head...again, a product of the 70's
There, is that better ?

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Yeah, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there gypsie... but, to be honest with you what I heard was more of "people being irresponsible with credit"... whoooa, there's a news flash...

If you're tying to point your finger at those loading money and granting credit to college students, I'll give you a little there, but wouldn't go so far as to agree with your that the "loaners & creditors" are the "evil empire"... sorry... when it comes down to it, the responsibility lies fully with the "creditee" for any responsibility and to excuse or deflect the lion share of the blame away from them is just enabling.

Absolutely agreed, Zig !
Perhaps if I wasn't one of these chicks that has to elaborate & articulate filling each statement with every emotion I emulate in a nano second..I'd have been able to get my point across as subtly & in so many fewer words, as you did...& would've refrained for stepping on so many toes
Thanks for the abbreviated synoposis of exactly what I was trying to say !

I still have an issue as to these same loaners & creditors I refer to ( i.e. big auto makers & bank card, corporate charge card creditors ) have then saught & rec'd gov.'t bailouts. I realize not all loanees & creditees in these programs, are college students. So need to critique that statement !

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RE:If your going to RE & Quote, respond to the entire phrase:
I'd say 90% of all 1st time tandem & s/l jumps are college students, I've experienced in my 5 yrs. as a fulltime DZ Staffer.

Like : "I've experienced..."

Like: "All".

And unless the DZ is somewhere where the local college campus is the biggest population centre, or your DZ markets almost exclusively to college students, I'd be more than amazed if 90% of the ones at your DZ were students.

3 of the DZ's are exactly that...located outside smaller towns, between college campuses & in high vacationing areas in N. Central - N. Eastern, WI. which is also textile - logging ( papermill) areas.
The larger DZ, I was Staff at was located between Milwaukee & Chicago. Both with many private, Orthodox, Technical & University campuses within the 100 mile distance.
If it were not for this large % of college students/ 1st time tandems or s/l students, I would not feasibly continue my job as a DZ Packer for 5 yrs.
( w/ well over 6000 combined packs to date ).
It is lucrative enough for me to continue to pack as my main source of income, rather than return to my (college degree) Nursing profession; as well as, for my husband;a multi-rated instructor, to continue, rather than return to his ( college degree) Aviation I/A & A & P profession.
For that, I'm appreciative !

I've had 2 nieces guilty of what I bring to this thread.
Both got boob jobs at 23-24 yrs. old, taken elaborate vacations & extensive socializing, brand new cars & now that they've graduated want to move back in with Mommy, take a break from the last tough 4 years of college, primarily financed by these loans & grants, & with Mommy picking up the slack, so they can 'find themselves' before the real world kicks in.

Then blame your brother or sister for raising two spoilt brats, don't extrapolate their behaviour to college students as a whole.
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RE:

And I did that ?
Please re-read the whole thing, grasp every statement, then explain how I drew my opinion to all college students as a whole ?
The thread draws reference to the "group" of growing number of those seeking public assistance is college students. The newscast did not give an estimated number nor ratio of how many students out of all college students were seeking the U.S. Government's aid.
And where did I say my sisters condoned nor supported their 'diva-like wanna-be's behavior or expectations.
I stated they "wanted " mommy to !
Neither were allowed to move back home, nor did they pick up their tabs !
Err goes my statement: "they'll need to find rich dudes..."

BTW: I love both my nieces & sisters, dearly. I was just making a point about SOME of today's young adults.
I'm concerned with this alarmingly growing trend, because we U.S. taxpayers, are ultimately & continuing, paying for it !

I'd say 90% of all 1st time tandem & s/l jumps are college students,

I'd say stop making stuff up
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RE:If your going to RE & Quote, respond to the entire phrase:
I'd say 90% of all 1st time tandem & s/l jumps are college students, I've experienced in my 4 yrs. as a fulltime DZ Staffer.

Like : "I've experienced..."
Been working fulltime on any DZ's in WI., I've been Staff at, or you've frequented, recently...have ya ?

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I just heard on a newscast today, the largest growing number of people applying for food stamps & public assistance are College Students.

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion this post really doesn't have anything to do with most college students and everything to do with one in particular?

Excuse me !
What are you talking about ?
Elaborate without looking con'damning' !
If you haven't figured it out by now; & it appears you've read my previous thread comments,
I don't play games, mince my words & I tend to be extremely direct, with no need for anyone to read between the lines !
There's no implication here, of anything else other than the topic I brought up !
I've had 2 nieces guilty of what I bring to this thread.
Both got boob jobs at 23-24 yrs. old, taken elaborate vacations & extensive socializing, brand new cars & now that they've graduated want to move back in with Mommy, take a break from the last tough 4 years of college, primarily financed by these loans & grants, & with Mommy picking up the slack, so they can 'find themselves' before the real world kicks in.
In the meantime, they expect Mommy to pay their way, make the car payments & stuydent loan payments.
I hope their new 'boob jobs' land them a rich dude, 'cuz it's unlikely they nor their college diplomas will carry them through adulthood !
There's a strong indicator you're supposed to be a moderator, so don't play jerk by being an instigator, as well !
Now for Christ's sake, did I bring enough to this table ?
If this is what I said I'm talking about, it IS what I'm talking about !

I just heard on a newscast today, the largest growing number of people applying for food stamps & public assistance are College Students.

It's no wonder given how & what so many College students spend their student loans & government student grants on.
I understand a large number need the monies to get through their college educations, & I have absolutely no problem with that.
I also know too well how alot of them support their social life, cosmetic surgery & enhancements, spring break & vacations abroad, & even their tandem & student progression jumps, is financed by their student loans & grants.
I'd say 90% of all 1st time tandem & s/l jumps are college students, I've experienced in my 4 yrs. as a fulltime DZ Staffer.
Though, some acknowledge they were bought the jump as a gift, worked for it, or it was purchased for them. Quite a few, if not most, have indicated they were using their student loan money.
They are also given extra consideration in charge card aps & approvals, & car loans, especially for College students.
A few weeks ago, a news story indicated college students were the largest growing group of those filing bankruptcy.
We're really in trouble if those just fresh out of the gate have these financial woes & cost & effect ignorance !
What's worse, Corporate America & Our System obviously condones it, by supporting them.

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Up or down vote.

Friend of ours was killed.

They found the killer.

The evidence is overwhelming.

The killer was sentenced to Death.

I have mixed emotions and would like to open this up for reasonable, and intelligent conversations.

Please leave Obama and Bush and all that other shit out of it if at all possible.

First of all, I'm truly very sorry for your loss !

Prior to having kids, grandkids I would've played the religious card; is it up to a system or another human to take the life of another, legally or not !

Then I toyed with...well is the killer insane ?
I mean not just clinically insane. Not the woah is me, I'm a victim of a dysfunctional childhood, or PTSD, but justifibly, genetically, without the ability of the right of reason...insane !

Then it was...it depends on the reasoning !
Intent, accidental intent, a crime of passion, greed, just a purely evil individual, yadayadayada ?

Too many defenses, loss of moral content & irrational lack of taking responsibility for one's actions & basically the human conscience & discineration of so many's spiritual soul's, situations like this have run amuck...worldwide, by every social class & race !

Now, I'm more cynical!
If there is absolutely no chance of a mistake or wrongful conviction, proof positive, absolute i.d & water tight guilt &/or confession... I say hell 'ya..especially if it is a child !

Hopefully, due to this new found cynicism & by the Grace of God, I will be forgiven, for this...but, yes, I say Absolutely !

This fledgling newbie absolutely appreciates this history lesson of the intent behind BSBD.
As far as hearing words of forboding from you
'old farts'...experience is wisdom, wisdom is knowledge, knowledge makes for learning, learning is success !
I'm a young pup in Skydiving ( just found it at 50), but getting to be an old dog, myself !

With much gratitude to you old farts in skydiving,
~ Blessings n' BlueSkies ~

I now have an understanding & appreciation to the diverse usage of BSBD.
My familiarity; which was obviously limited, was referenced in solumn mourning & respect of friends, or acquaintences who have died on a skydive.
It's clear it is ALWAYS used in respect amongst skydivers.
Thanks for making that clear to me !
Like I said, I will forever be a student of skydiving, both as my sport & in my profession ( as just a DZ Packer).
Any clarity brought to my attention is genuinely appreciated !

I guess I stand corrected again, that's what I get for being a know it all ! I haven't been around in Skydiving for very long...going into my 4 th yr !
Sorry about that !
The only inferences I've experienced with BSBD were in acknowledgement to fellow jumpers digging in & resulting in their death !
Sounds like I've still got a lot to learn from you all
Forever a student when it comes to Skydiving !!!

I need to retract my comment to Winsor, then...would be honored to be on a load with you

I stand corrected. Bill Cosby had a private jet in the early 1990's w/ that tail number...a close personal worked on his plane in Ft. Lauderdale during that time...I've seen the photo & paperwork ! Obviously that's no longer his...thanks for the informed update !

BSBD....seriously ...you sign off with BSBD to a fellow skydiver ?

Is that your personal 'sign off' endorsement, your comedic sense of humor, or well wishes to skydivers who post comments that may be outdated or inaccurate in a forums type setting that may annoy you ? Either way, wouldn't want you watching my back on a load ! Regardless, wishing you BlueSkies & Safe Landings in your journeys & flights !

I find this thread's controversial opinions & facts quoted , interesting. Most points; though divided, are valid. When I 1st started to read along I had stronger feelings leaning in one direction, then the other ! I've read the history books, followed the news from the early 60's thru current events to include the organizational beginning of the Black Panthers, UNCF ads, the Klan's uprisals to include attempts to infiltrate in my hometown area ( the big Geraldo Rivera beat down), integrating the schools & bussing, Martin Luther King's advocacy & assassination, Jesse Jackson's short term presidency campaign & peace talks to release those held captive in Iraq in the 80's. But, my opinion; due to this countries affirmation of the lobbyists in DC., to whatever special interest groups lining politician's pockets, is most 'minorities', whether their grassroots were by indentured slavery, or the multitude of illegal immigration, have more opportunities to move ahead towards whatever they "chose" to achieve, then those of us whose ancestry were by those who migrated here in the 1600-1800's. Give this system any more time, & the skies ( & their acquirements) will by far surpass the Average Joe's wealth, or at the very least...the ability to survive . The opportunity gates have been opened for some time ! My heritage is of Europeon migration in 1670's, & Cherokee, & Blackfoot Indian...though I'm entitled to freebees as an Am. Indian, I, nor mine, have never looked looked for, will never, nor expect a hand out from the Government. Whatever happened to you work for what you get ? This continuing anticipation of entitlement because of the wrong's any of "our" ancestors incurred, due to any 'bluebloods' greed is disgusting !

By the way Bill Cosby's personal jet's tail number reads:
November, India, 6, 6, Echo, Romeo: " NI66ER"

when I saw thsi posting, I responded to his brother...we exchanged emails a few wks ago...hope to be exchanging family trees ! Thanks, though =)

I saw that...it was a great acknowledgement to Nick. I wish I knew if our families, are related. I'm from the State of Wisconsin. Thanks for the info, though...LadyDoc !
~ Blessings n' BlueSkies ~

Skygirl1: Juries are chosen through the jury duty call process. The jury duty call process is made via voter's registration. It is a given; criminals, regardless of race, and/ or their peers, would obviously dodge any civil registrations. Whites becoming a minority isn't based on criminal activity, nor is racism victimization a cause & affect, of imprisonment, or their criminality. Any white race depreciation we are now experiencing is systematic of our government allowances to 'illegal' immigration, and hand outs to those less accomplished or by those who care less, to achieve on their own. They then, gain a sense of empowerment to do whatever it takes, to retain that power they've been handed on a tupperware platter. It's not the drugs, or what derivative of a drug, causing the problem. It's the methods of obtaining the control over domains, leading to violent crimes. Typically; white crimes I feel, are based on their sense of entitlement to whatever fancies them, or boredom. They more often have the ability to high price lawyers. Lawyers have their alliances with the judical system....& the wheels on that bus go round & round. Any racism claims here, are reflective of systematic genecide of war time of the past. Those less priviledged or uneducated were put on the front lines. We pay their way on the outside, & they TAKE care of each other inside. Some women are just as criminally minded as those men, caught & locked up...though they have the ability to play the damsel in distress card ! Women criminals; statisically, are less in numbers, because the gender has less in numbers overall. A woman's prison you maybe familiar with maybe be overcrowded, perhaps it is the ONLY woman's med.-max. sec. prison in that state. Basically, it comes down to: a person is either a product of society, a victim of society, or conforms to society. Those same people serving sentences now want to stand up & be counted, & be heard...crying victimization & racism. If they would've tried that on the outside before turning to the criminal acts that got them there, just maybe their outcome & our responsibilties of continuing to pay for their problems, would diminsh. But then what would we need the attorney's, who go into public office, who go into political office...yadayadayada, be getting paid for ? Regardless, ya reap what ya sow...either here & now, or pay up, later ! Every step we take is measured ! Hey, but what do I know ? I'm just a noncriminal, spiritually connected, 50ish midwestern, > middle class, college grad., TAX paying, professionally skilled, mother - gr'mother, & multi year DZ. Staffer ?
People quit responding, when intelligence runs out on the posts. How do you reply to stupid ?

After months of hard work on his road to an anticipated full recovery, Geidrius " G"...is doing very well. He returned to the States in March, & was at Northwestern in Chicago for a few weeks. He is now home, still going through rehab therapy, but anticipates a full recovery. I've been in contact with him via email, he offers his sincerest gratitude to all for their thoughts, prayers, & donations for his family to be able to be with him for some time, while he was hospitalized in S. Africa. He hopes to be jumping again in the near future ! So thank you, again ! ~ Blessings n' BlueSkies ~

Guilt, denial, too busy to give a shit, or don't give damn! We like to claim we're all a product of society, but actually we're products of ourselves ! A great deal of the time, it's adults who initially rob kids of their innocence. Whether it's by role modeling, or lack of it, abandonment, neglect & abuse, disconcerning themselves from them, selfishness, OVER INDULGING them. It's no pyschological mystery, some kids are known to take whatever 'excuse' they want to gain control. But, there comes a time to recognize it, change the cycle, and be accountable; regardless, to what dysfunction of exposure there has been. If parenting, & guidance falls short, pull your damn pants up & man up to your actions, or society HAS to step up. If they're old enough to know better, nail 'em. If they aren't, teach 'em ! Unfortunately, some are just predators by nature. They need to be 'caged' like the pack of wild dogs, they are. These cycles have to stop now, otherwise what kind of society will EVERYONE be conforming to in the real near future?
EVIL is real, deal with them here, & now. If they are truly evil ( which sounds like they are ), they'll also be dealt with, hereafter.