ufk22

QuotePoint taken, and admittedly a vague hypothetical. I get that the 'line' is the A lisc when it comes to responsibility. But there are many cases where new jumpers still have a lot to learn. I consider myself in this category. I don't think that there is anyone out there that believes that once someone has their A they know everything they need to know. We currently do not have any progression program in place, other than making more jumps in order to get advanced liscenses. None that are enforced anyway. So the question here is "is there anyone responsible for the education of skydivers beyond the A?" I'm of the belief the instructors play some role here. Although it is not defined in any manual, ethically, an instructor bears the burden to educate outside the lines of the hard and fast rules. Am I off here? [/reply Yes, you're way off. I'm starting to resent you thinking something is owed you because of my rating. To repeat myself. An I rating means I am qualified to teach someone the basics of skydiving and have a responsibility to do this to the best of my abilities in a manner that is safe, prudent, and conforms to USPA recommendations and the BSR's. A lot of people with instructional ratings will work with low time jumpers for the same reason they got a rating in the first place, because they enjoy it. A lot of people with instructional ratings might not be the best teachers of advanced skills. The only person responsible for your education from here on out is YOU. Yes, you've got a lot to learn, and the only way to learn is to make a lot of jumps and a lot of mistakes. Jump with a lot of different people and start figuring out who's telling what really happened and who's chewing you out to cover their own mistakes. When you get to the point you've learned it all and don't make any mistakes, realize that "it really ain't so", readjust your attitude, and start learning all over again. When you know it all in this sport, is only means you're cocky and dangerous and stupid. And when you don't get a little nervous before every skydive, get out of the sport. Taking things for granted is the fastest way to die. Good luck, and if we ever run in to each other I'd gladly make a jump or two with you. Not because I'm obligated, but because it'd be fun. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Do you feel that at most DZ's if you see a gross safety issue or impropriety, that any DZO or S&TA will listen to whatever you have to say as an experienced person? Will and should depend upon how well they know me and their opinion of my judgement (am I "fair and balanced", or petty and have personal, vindictive agenda). Again, kind of vague, "gross safety issue", probably take some kind of action(?) "impropriety"(?) maybe, maybe not??? It really depends on the personality of the S&TA or DZO. Some are willing to make hard decisions and follow through, even dealing with friends and family, some are not. But, getting back to the original thread, an "I" might or might not (but in most cases should) make your opinion carry more weight , but not necessarily. An "I" rating, when dealing directly with licensed skydivers, doesn't mean you have any more authority or responsibility than you have as just a regular skydiver. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Looked at the other thread. As an S&TA, there is more responsibility, but more importantly there is more authority to deal with this type of situation. An S&TA can ground someone (in theory). An "I" can't. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

You totally missed the point. The point is my I rating has NOTHING to do with this. It's pretty hard to respond to a hypothetical this vague, but assuming these are licensed skydivers... 1. As an instructor, you're saying I have more obligation than I would with no rating??? An I rating means I am qualified to teach someone the basics of skydiving and have a responsibility to do this to the best of my abilities in a manner that is safe, prudent, and conforms to USPA recommendations and the BSR's. It also means I should deal with any unsafe or improper teaching methods or information from a fellow instructor THAT'S IT. 2. How do you propose I stop them? 3. would I feel any guilt because someone did something stupid after I had strongly warned them against it? No, I ain't your momma or theirs This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

You can talk to a lawyer, but what he'll tell you is; 1.Stolen is stolen, doesn't matter where or who or how many other owners along the way, stolen gear belongs to the original owner, That is the law 2.You are screwed on this, because you'll probably never track down the original thief. That's legal Morally, ?????? I'd talk to the gear shop and try to work out a compromise This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

At what point are 'instructors' no longer responsible for others around them? ______________ The fact that I have an instructional rating doesn't mean I am any more or less responsible for those (not my students) around me than any other skydiver is. __________ The responsibilities are spelled out and obvious when performing instructor duties. Even once a new jumper becomes liscensed, good instructors know that there is still plenty left to teach. ___________________ This is obvious, and I spend as much or more time "teaching" low time licenced jumpers for free as I spend teaching students. _______________ I believe that every jumper has a moral obligation to speak up when noticing any safety problem. There is also an obvious additional responsibility on anyone rated as an instructor of anything. ___________________ If this is what you think, you obviously don't understand the progam at all. I'll certainly meantion any equipment problem that I notice to anyone, no matter there experience level, but I have no more authority or obligation to stop a licenced skydiver from doing something stupid that they choose to do than anyone else in the sport. If their experience level is known to me I can comment, but that's as far as it goes. This doesn't mean I won't talk to an S&TA about someone if I feel the need, but that really has nothing to do with whether I have a rating or not. ______________ But where are the lines between have to/need to/should/no need to check someone else's gear? How does this play out when away from your home DZ? We all have to live with our choices, but what happens when someone else does not live because of choices not made? _______________ The lines are drawn by experience/license. Once someone has an A licence they CAN do most anything they want. My rating does not give me authority to stop stupid. I can comment, but.... If I ask a 50 jump wonder if they want/need a gear check and they say "no, I'm OK", there's nothing I can do to force them to submit. I may push the issue depending on how well I know the jumper, but legally/ethically I have no more authority or obligation than any other jumper in this situation. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

It helps to have a reference when you're starting out. We had a temporary wind sock we used in our student area, and I found that if I landed a little ways downwind from it, it gave me a reference (it was about 8' high). It also gave me something to look at that was in front of me rather than looking at the ground. Find something about 10' high to use and land 50-100 feet downwind. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

The one cypres/no pull I've directly witnessed. A student going through the static-line progression, doing a 10 sec delay. He'd had stability (slight spin) problems. We talked for quite a while both before going up and on the ride up about altitude awareness/ pull priorities. I watched out the door, he got into a spin, and I counted to 10-15... 25+ seconds. I turned in to tell the pilot to take a go-round, looked back out and saw a canopy deflating on the ground, thought it might have opened on impact. The student had a less than 2 sec canopy ride. The Cypres data said it fired at the proper altitude, but.... This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Any probability that come out 100% has obvious problems. The probability of 100,000 coin flips and no heads is not 100%, but......... Statistics can't tell you much about YOUR chances of survival in this sport. Much more relevant is you personality and attitude, ability,equipment, and currency . Look at the deaths from true double malfunctions, ie, properly deployed main, chop, and properly deployed reserve at proper altitude. This number is so extremely low as to be almost non-existent. IF you stay current (not less than 40-50 jumps a year, more if multi-discipline), have some degree of physical and mental ability, have an AAD and/or Skyhook/RSL, don't fly a canopy too small for your experience level, don't do radical hook turn landings, and don't overestimate your abilities (this is the tough one), you can still die. Your chances are just much, much lower. Statistics don't catch up with you. Fatigue does. Being unprepared does. Ego does. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

Anyone know how to get ahold of him????Thanks This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

N/A

I've been jumping a Diverite jumpsuit for over 10 years. Anyone who's owned one knows this is the best multi-purpose jumpsuit for slightly heavy jumpers ever made, but the company no longer exists. What's the best replacement??? This thing has more range than anything I've ever flown. This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.