LiveLifeGoJump

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Was the rough opening related to the wind? Or just made it much harder to deal with on landing?

Everything went well down to flare height at which point wind caught me and droped me the last 8 ft but not straight down, it took canopy sideways so body was approx. 80 degrees off vertical when I made contact with the ground (almost lying on my left side) despite facing into wind on approach and no turn below 200ft (slight corrections that's all). Wind direction was fairly constant but speed changes were rapid. Still don't know why I fell to left. Of the other 3 on the same lift, 2 landed on their backside rather hard and the 3rd was lifted 12 ft then dropped & JUST managed to remain on his feet.

I was young & keen (young in skydiving, old in real life) the others all had many jumps under their belts, one who was dropped hard on to his bottom had over 800.
Whiplash was due to me landing on my left side and head bending sideways until it contacted the ground. Try lying on you side, left shoulder on the ground & keep neck straight. There is approx. 3 inch gap between helmet and ground. Now imagine going from vertical to this position as you drop the last 8 ft, head (in full face helmet) moving those last 3 inches after shoulder contacts will put quite a strain on the neck.

I landed into wind (same direction as the others landed and windsock indicated I was into wind), canopy appeared to remain facing into wind (did not dive left). It was as if canopy was pushed from 90 degrees right rapidly.

Hope this explains what happened.

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If a rapid link fails, it bends open and can still hold your lines, waiting to dump your lines at 50ft thus killing you.

Just read today of and incident were a skydiver noticed a failed radpi link after he landed (happened this year). How many of us do kit check after deployment (handle pads etc.) & should we now include rapid links?

If all this info doesn't convince me to change then what will?

Thanks to all who posted replies and DZ.com for being here when we need it.

Blue Skies & be safe.

I had one, got it secondhand. Never had a problem with it. It was a vector copy from South Africa. As I don't freefly I wasn't bothered about the down pointing pin covers.
Did a few head down jumps and several that didn't go according to plan (2 ways that spun out of control, we just held them for fun till breakoff).

Your local rigger will tell you if he/she will do mods to make it freefly friendly.

My was 1992 DOM and fitted with Sabre 170 (originally used with Stilletto 150) & tempo 170 reserve. It was inspected just before I sold it and the only reccomendation the rigger made was that the closure loop attachment point needed a piece of elactic either side of the grommet to prevent the risk of lines catching the grommet on deployment but that had never happened to my container to my knowledge (I knew of the rig from late 1994, bought it 1997 & sold it 2004). Riser cover velcro replaced when reserve & main fitted in 1997.

I liked it but DZ regulars were not keen on the (faded & dirty) colour. I care more about my life that the colour of my kit. Only sold it 'cause I got a good deal on an Atom & Cypres. I would have been happy to keep it.

Hope this help you.

Blue Skies

It is quite common for tandem passengers to be older than 70 years and even without ever breaking an ankle in their lives would be more prone to this type of injury than your hubby.

At our centre we have had paraplegics (hope I've spelt that right) as tandems. The instructors are skilled at the sport and adapt to the needs of the student.

Where risks are greater then they will only carry out the jump if conditions are right for the particular situation so I would say let him do it but don't be supprised or upset if others further down the list (normally first come, first served) jump before him. The decision of when he jumps will be taken with HIS saftey in mind.

There's nothing stopping him jumping solo (S/L or AFF) if he wishes provided he meets the medical condition etc. and ACCEPTS the risks.

Why don't you do one at the same time?

Blue Skies.

Dumbest thing.

Jumping on a day when wind were gusting 8 to 20, no waiting for slot in plane (NOW I know why). Got slammed & caused whiplash injury to neck.

Smartest thing.

Stayed on groud the next time winds were gusting as above. Had loads of fun watching the (interesting????) landings of the junpers with less than 100 jumps (as did all the jumpers with over 100 jumps).

Often a smart thing to do.

Watch the jumpers on the first lift land (Better to laugh than to be laughed at).

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If she is cute....Can I touch her...I'm an instructor

It's not an instructor privilege as the police pointed out to an instructor I know of!!!

Thanks All.

Seems that majority recommend soft links and there has been many good & valid reasons for using them. Didn't see any advantage of repide links over soft links in the posts.

I might buy a set (may even use them if I can overcome the faer of using them, funny how irrational fear is!)

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From a safety point of view I think it useful to have a color that is easily seen from a distance, so you can find jumpers on the ground

So no white reserves for us Brits eh? After all we do get the odd bit snow. Yellow par for the course?

Personally I don't care, I hope I never see it & if I do COLOUR will be the last thing I think about.

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If a rapid link fails, it bends open and can still hold your lines, waiting to dump your lines at 50ft thus killing you.

Good point!

Quite a few FOR soft links, Any against? Not convinced yet but getting there.

Still it's hard to trust them but there again I put my trust in a knotted bedsheet & a few lenghts of string (oh and MY packing) so are they any worse, I suppose not!

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Let's get our terminology straight here.

I stand corrected, many thanks for that.

I had heard them called Rapide links but had 'forgot'.

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and find them less labour-intensive to install.

Only seen them fitted once, they took longer to do.

With soft links do you have to have the slider behind your head or will it stay high as with Rapide links (too old to be cool, too young to be dead, sod the swoop & save the knees)?

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30 days off is a pretty big deal.

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In parts of the UK a 30 day grounding would only miss 1 jump day (or 3 in a GOOD month).

seriously though.

ALL of the following TOGETHER may work

Grounding
re-emphasis on posible dangers of low pulls (to self & others) during ban days.
Instructor evaluated jumps after ban
LOG BOOK ENTRY by CCI (log book entry not allowed, no jumping a that DZ EVER)

Money is no object to some but bans can be enforced at that centre (even at all centres is necessary & justified due to a relatively low number of DZs that are easy to contact via e-mail/fax etc.

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

A thread has just been started on how to attach soft links but WHY?

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

Don't know why but the idea of fitting them to my kit scares me. Can't seem to convinve myself that they are safe even though I've not heard that they are not safe.

Is it just fashion (yeah, I'm COOL, I've got soft links and can pull the slider right down my risers!!!), is it just different or is their a practical advantage/risk reduction?

Wow, raised a bit heated discussion with this thread.

No reserve packer should be forced to pack equipment (new or old) if he does not wish to regardless of whether his reasons are walid, but he should not ground/condem as unsafe any equipment because of age etc.

Any equipment that meets the standards set at the time of production AND any new standards introduced by the relavant controling body & is certified & packed etc. should be cleared to be jumped. Finding someone willing to do this will only get harder.

The problem will come when NO ONE is willing to do this. Should a advanced packer, rigger or examiner be forced to do so is another matter.

A system is in place (in the UK) to cope with vintage cars. Providing the braking system operates as it was designed to a modern car will 'stop on a sixpence' from 70 mph whereas the vintage car (if it were capable of that speed) would be lucky to stop in the same county (state).

A lot has been mentioned about vacumn tubes not being allowed in aircraft radios but is this a fair comparison. Solid state IS more relyable and vacuum tubes DO suffer from heat & vibration (there's a lot more involved, to much to discuss here) but this comparasson can't be made with the material parachute equipment is made of.

If you don't want to pack/jump old equipment then fair enough but don't use that as an excuse to stop others.

MY THOUGHTS. If you choose to be a part of the system that controls/regulates equipment standards then you SOULD be prepared to inspect/pack etc. any equipment that meets the system standards. ALL reserve packers ARE part of the SYSTEM.
Just MY thoughts, feel free to agree or disagree.

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as well as learning from your instructors ask if you could be under radio guidence until you get the hang of things.

I, personally, would not advise this option as I believe that with radio available you MAY have a tendency to rely on it rather than learning to do it yourself but this is MY opinion based on MY presonal experiences. We are not all the same so it MAY work for some.

I know of a S/L student who was worried (as most are) about being able to control the canopy correctly on his first jump even with radio. He lost his helmet & radio on exit (impact with step) and HAD to rely on his retained knowledge. His was the best canopy control of the students on the lift & the others did (more or less) what they were told over the radio.

I had radio on my first 3 jumps only.

1: Full talkdown + flare assistance.
2: Limited talkdown + flare assistance.
3: No talkdown (although if I appeared to having problems then some guidance would have been given) + flare assistance.

This was normal procedure for every student.

On occasions radios were offered to the more nervious student up to jump 5 but this consisted of flare assistance and comments such as 'I'm not talking to you', 'Does my voice sound sexy over the radio' & 'He He, I bet it's cold up there!'

Talk to your instructor.

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but I need more tuition on approach, base and final leg. I was at 250ft on final leg and thought it too late to turn though the instructors said this was ok afterward.

I would alway advise student jumpers to speak to their instructor rather than taking advise from others (not that others are not qualified to give advise, just that instructors are responsible for your training).

That said, if you have placed yourself to close to a hazzard for comfort then there are maneuvers that can help (one is following a 'S' pattern. Your instructor will explain this and others if you ask him).

A number of jumpers are hurt by flying into hazzards due to 'target fixation' or just thinking 'I MUST stay into wind below XXX ft because the instructor told me not to turn below that height'.

TALK TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR, PLEASE.

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Switching from 230 to 150 is definitely bad idea. I'd recommend to jump a 190 and 170 for a while. If your W/L under a 150 is 1.2, then under a 170 it will be ~1.0. Good point to start from! Buy your rig and borrow a 170 from somebody for hundred jumps.

I fully Agree with this.

I started of on a 280 Manta (de-tuned student canopy), dropped via a Fury (220?), PD 190 to Sabre 170 (in approx 90 jumps). ALL instructors & the local rigger etc. reccomend a similar staged downsizing (I am happy to stay at 170 but others going smaller would have then dropped to 150/135ish after more than 100 jumps or so).

Going from 230 to 150 is like passing your driving test in a Nissan Micra then driving home (at top speed) in a Porsche, not recommended! At 20 jumps or so it's almost suicidal. Our CCI would NOT allow you to jump it unless you had over 100 jumps & he still would be unhappy if you had not done a number of jumps on something inbetween such as a PD or Sabre of 190/170 sqft. I would also think that he would have a few words with any instructor giving advise like this.

I have seen a 'Cypres save' (v-close to DZ air space) and I was scared (watching from the ground). When a jumper is that low and still no pull then something has to be done for his own safety. Apart from that no DZ owner/CCI wants the inspections/inquiries etc. that would follow.

I think they have every right to introduce rules that they feel appropriate in these situations.

I used to jump without AAD (approx 160 jumps) and the lack of AAD did not give me cause for concern. My pull height was approx. 3,000ft if I was at terminal V (lowest was 1,800 on a 2,200 lob). My pull height has not (nor will not) alter now I have Cypres for the following reasons (in that order).

1: Cost of Cypres cutter-reserve repack (and new main/freebag if not found).
2: The thought of terminal V. at 750-800 ft scares me ridgid.
3: I don't want to risk being grounded/banned at my local DZ.
4: I want time to deal with any possible main canopy mal, get stable & dump my reserve myself above Cypres hieght.

I was taught that AAD was a backup device (which may fail) to deploy the reserve if you were UNABLE to do so yourself (for whatever reason inc. loss of alti-awareness) but that it was up to me to allow enough time to carry out whatever was necessary to deploy the main and/or reserveand be under canopy before I reached AAD firing altitude.

Surely your life is worth more than the FEW SECONDS freefall time gained by dumping low.

There will be occasions when it is NECESSARY to pull lower than normal (ie. another jumper tracks above you) but if the low pull is used as an EMERCENCY PROCEDURE to avoid an obvious danger created by others then I don't think the CCI would ground YOU (more likely to ground the jumper that caused the incident).

Grounding gives the jumper time to reflect on his/her mistakes and should also include some additional retrain/re-emphasis on alti-awareness. You can't teach them (on the ground) to pull high but you can teach/re-emphasize the reasons to do so (ground school for first jump attempts to teach various skills that are that can only be learnt fully whilst in the air).

Does anyone out there want yo jump with (on even on the same lift as) someone with so little regard for their own life? After all, if they are not bothered about their own life, it is unlikly that they are bothered about YOURS either.

DZs set rules for everyone's safety (inc. that of those on the ground in the surrounding area who don't want to be hit on the head by a skydiver still in freefall), YOU set the rules for YOUR OWN safety in ADDITION to the DZ's.

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Let's be serious. The risk of a student jumper having a sloppy landing causing short term leg or back discomfort is much greater than all of these others. And any injury will impact his training for a peak performance in January. If he was a more casual competitor, it wouldn't be a big deal. He could just not perform as well in a race or two. But this is a one time shot.

This is why I ended my post with

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You will have to decide which is the important to you but there is no reason why you should give up either as long as you know the risks & put safty first.

Be safe in whatever you decide & good luck in the selections.

I believe that what will happen , will happen. WHAT you are doing at the time doesn't matter so do what you what.

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Instead of the regular 6 weeks, double it to 12 weeks.

Yeah but a shattered vertabra (L2 I think) that needs a lot of metal (apart from the rods & screws [removed after about a year then new ones fitted shortly after because back still not right] I believe he had a 'cage' fitted to hold the bits together & bone grafts to the one above & below) takes longer still!

Get the doctors advice as he nkows your situation better than us.

ps. Metalwork can be viewed in the DZ bar when open.

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Your biggest risk is in doing everything you're doing in every day life and adding skydiving, PLUS driving to and from the dropzone, to the equation.

Change skydiving to rowing & DZ to rowing club and you have just as many dangers.

It is said that in the UK 30 people die each year just falling out of bed.

Life is full of risks, you are not adding to them. All you are doing is replacing those you would be exposed to (in whatever activity you did instead of skydiving) with skydiving risks.

Who's to say that if a skydiver who died jumping had not gone to the DZ on that day they would not have died in some other incident?

DEATH doesn't take 'not today thank you' as an answer. When HE calls, you go!
Perhaps he has a brother who deals out the various injuries. Who knows?

Skydiving injuries aren't compulsor, some skydivers have done thousands of jumps without even breaking a fingernail.

Why did he start AFF if the risk of breaking legs worries him? Would it have been better if he left it until after he had gone as far as he wanted to with his rowing?

NO, but I know a man that that did.

Restarted just over a year after but 'EACH TO THEIR OWN'. Only you (and your doctor) knows.

The only problem I've heard him talk about is the cold makes his back ache (so does too much work, standing etc.).

If you come back to the sport, pick the better jump days and leave the iffy one to the 'die hards'.

Have fun, be safe.

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You are WAY overthinking this! i bet you a buck your problem is not RELAXING enough.

Like I said, BIG SMILE, RELAX & ENJOY IT, you'll be amazed just how much easier the arch will be and how much better the dive will go.

One reason to turn AADs of when decending with the aircraft is to prevent AAD fire in a situation where a reserve pilot chute could exit the aircraft (aircraft with no door). The pilot would be aware of AAD operation in desent and fly accordingly. IF he had to decent quickly then it is up to everyone in the aircraft to 'guard' the reserve PC of the jumper in front of him/her if there is not time/not posible to turn off the devices & this is VITAL where there is a risk of a PC going out of the harcraft or hitting the pilot/interferring with the aircraft controls.
Life is one big 'what if' and you can't train for them all (no one knows everything,those that are still learning are improving, those that have learned everything they can are dead, those that won't learn - well just DON'T jump with). Do what you think is best in the situation, do it quickly & hope it's works out right. It's all anyone can do.

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I'm not sure where I read it, but I did read someone suggest that having boots that prevent ankle injury might just increase the risk of other leg injuries.

The way I heard it is,


you need boots/shoes that provide ankle support but still allow your ankle to be flexable because if the boots are too ridgid then this can increase the risk of leg injury.


So wear boots/shoes that reduce the risk of ankle injury and not boots that 'prevent' ankle injury.

Practice PLTs with stiff boot & support boots (trainer type) and you WILL notice the difference.