LiveLifeGoJump

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If it was a true Cypres save, it was to late for the jumper to have any effect in the outcome.

It was a true Cypres save, my point was I was scared & I was on the ground not jumping that day. Just seeing it was enough to make me think again about what I would do under a main mal. For that & other reasons deployment height is still 3k. Also reminded me that altitude awareness is very important (not that I needed reminding).

That's why I say, there are ocassions when a second or 2 delay MAY be the safest option. It all depends on the circumstances.

I once saw a Cypres save, I was on the ground & I was scared. At that height it's a 'do or die' situation. No time to blink never mind think.

After the chop he ended up under another jumper and rolling. Track & deploy reserve gave clearance.

He had the altitude to do this, Reserve may not have mal'ed but other jumper so close that he could well have went into reserve.

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I agree with Sparky on this.

The rational for waiting a few seconds to get stable after cutting away is so that one can avoid inducing a reserve malfunction/entanglement.

The actual risk here is fairly low. Due to various aspects of reserve design, ie: Non-eliptical and free bag, they're pretty forgiving of unstable deployments.

My post was in reply to a spinning mal. No one can say in what orientation you will be when thrown of a spinning mal. It is therefore posible that if the reserve is deployed immediately that you could induce line twists of worse still get wrapped up in the lines. It is for this reason I suggested that a slight delay (1 or posibly 2 seconds) to get stable (or at least reduce the spinning effect) would help PROVIDED you have the altitude. Bear in mind that your vertical speed could well be below terminal as you would have some canopy above your head. If you do not have the altitude then 'owt is better than nowt' then go silver and ARCH after. I did not suggest a minimum altitude, below which you should not delay, that is up to the individual based on experience and/or advice from instructors.
If you are you advising that after chopping a spinning mal and being flung off in a VERY unstable position above 2k you should go straight for silver regardless' then I personally would prefer not to follow that advice.

I hope that, if ever I am in a 'mal' situation, I react to it in the best way I can to suit the situation.

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In reply to Sparky's post

1. Pull
2. Pull at the right altitude
3. Pull at the right altitude while stable

Maybe you should leave giving advise to the instructors.

I agree to 1, 2 & 3 100%

Regarding the 'advice', the first part was a suggestion, the second part was advise & I don't need to be an instructor to tell people to relax & enjoy it.

In reply to Jimbo. Yes 2500+ jumps does mean something & I do trust the information given to me by instructors with upto 6,000 jumps.

I have read & learned from the advice given by the likes of Billvon, mjosparky & others, most of which confirms or adds to/improves what I was taught and would always recommend that low timers seek the advice of the instructors at their home DZ as the instructor is more able, in a 'face to face' briefing, to assess whether the recipient has fully understood the advise/procedure explained to him/her. That said the amount of information on DZ.com is vast, mostly good and can serve to educate.

PS. I HAVE seen a spinning mal where going for silver immediately after the chop had well over a 50% chance of a serious (potentially fatal) reserve mal. A delay was necessary for safety, luckily he had the altitude & knew it.

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The problem with doing this is that it then makes the D-bag fatter in the container

But not if the canopy is new & slippy as it will then spread under your knees as you kneel on it. With an older or less slippery canopy it may not spread then making it the width of the bag is correct way. I know a number of packers who start narrow with newer canopies.

Yes. sorry my thinking was off at the time.

I was thinking that all risers had a section where the front & rear risers where stitched together for several inches and that it was this part that was shortened (can't think at the moment where I got this idea from as I KNOW mine seperate just above the '3 ring circus').

As for shorterning the brake lines this may have to be done in order for someone with short arms to be able to carry out a full flare. GET A RIGGER TO ADVISE BEFORE ATTEMPTIN THIS AS IT WILL/MAY ALTER THE TRIM.

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Many people point out the protec is the "safest" helmet you can get for skydiving. What's it made of?

Ah but a Protec isn't 'COOL' and only uncool students wear them! I think it may be polyproperlene but don't quote me. As for being the safest, perhaps is was when it was first manufactures and for the situation it is used in but no open face helmet protect you from a 'boot in the gob'. As the sport & technology developes then new designs come out to extend the range of protection (tempt the skydiver & line the pockets of the industry).

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There is much more to how well a helmet protects the head than the material it's made of.

Helmets are designed to flex and absorb the force of any blow so the material does matter. It may be a small part but it is an important part. Wearing a strong & ridgid helmet is more likely to transmit the force to the head (as would a thin or solid padding). There is no perfect helmet but a full face has a number of advantages (and probably disadvantages too) over open face.

Just remember, most helmets come in boxes marked fragile for a reason.

I have a 7 year old Z1 but need to replace it soon. I would consider another but cost is an issue as they seem to be overpriced in comparisson to others.

Decide what's best for your type of skydiving. Think about getting 2!
Helmets don't make skydiving safer, they just help if & when accidents happen.

I learnt to flat pack Manta 280s before pro-packing (we have lots of S/L students at our UK DZ) and these are easy to bag. It's when I got my Sabre the problems started (slippy ZP) so I developed this method.

1: Make the 'sausage shape' as thin as posible
2: S fold it's length as quick as posible
3: Put bag over as much as you can
4: Stuff the 'spare bits anywhere there is a space
5: Stow the first bit on line in the first bungy
6: Repete 4 & 5 until all the mouth lock line stows are done
7: Repeat 4

Works for me. Funny thing is I don't get asked to pack Sabres for others, I wonder why.
I was going to learn the psycho-pack but as mine looks like a psycho has packed it I didn't bother.
I work on the assumption if it doesn't what to go in in the first place then it ain't going to stay in when it get a little taste of freedom on deployment.

Best advise I can give is to squash out as much air a possible, make it VERY narrow before the S folds, keep it under control with your knees and don't take too much time bagging it. It also helps (helps me anyhow) if the canopy is warm & packed on a carpet (helps stop material sliding about). If all else fails, CHANGE JOBS to one that pay a lot more then pay a packer to pack for you while you go off and jump your second kit.

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individually

I learned to pro-pack on a Stilltto 150, the jumper was over 12 stone (not sure how much), jumped camera and often pulled around 2k2. It was the easest canopy I've been asked to pack. He had no problems of hard openings that I can remember even when I trashed packed it once (an off day, he was in a hurry to jump video again, I just said "don't ask just dump high" he did [2k5] and had one of the best openings he'd ever had). Can't ever remember him having twists, prahaps the odd of heading by 90 degrees but that's all.

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shorter risers will :
-set the CG higher
-let the canopy spread less, in length and in span

Is riser length not set to suit the container rather than the canopy?
Are the risers on ALL container made for a 120 the same length?
Are the lines on ALL 120's the same length?

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With shorter risers the "short" comes off the bottom not the top

As the "short" come off the bottom BELOW the V divide between front & rear risers it should not affect anything, other than brake line length, much, if at all otherwise risers would need to be designed to suit the individual and the canopy their intend to use etc.

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I'm worried about a reserve that might open in an un-recoverable spiral, because of something as simple as body position or line twists.

If you are under a spinning mal and have the altitude then a slight delay after the chop to get stable before the pull would help. If you don't have the altitude then the next stage after pulling silver is (as I was taught) ARCH (or recover, same thing) as this will help stop the body spinning as the reserve deploys reducing the risk of twists etc.

One bit of advise I would give everyone is to relax & enjoy it, the more you worry the more you tense up & the more tense you are the more likely you are to cause a problem.

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"Options till impact"
"Keep pulling handles till your goggles fill up with blood"

I live by them.

Anyone got any others?

Yeah.
1: If all else fails 'grab the grass 'cause it's the bounce that kills'.
2: Pray.
3: Flap arms.
4: Blow hard (or suck if you are on your back).

Seriously. If things are bad you'll try anything but best NOT to let it get that bad.

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Above the cutoff altitude, I go to the main as expected. If we're high enough, we turn points after the emergency exit (hey, altitude is altitude...).

I heard about a C182 emergency, jumpers were told to get out so they launched a 4 way. On another emergency when a loud bang was heard coming from the engine the pilot turned to call 'aircraft emercency' (another C182) only to see the last pair of heels disappearing out of the door.

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I felt like a 'real' skydiver the first time I managed a decent on-target, stand-up landing.

I felt like a 'real' skydiver the first time I managed to deploy face to earth (S/L progression) but feeling was short lived when I started to do other things wrong.

I'm a 5' 8.5" male, I KNOW I can carryout out EP & that I have more that enough strength to cope even if the pull is more than the max 22 lbs but still think 'I going to have the strength to cut away & extract the reserve pin' (will I have the presence of mind to even try). The answers are yes, yes & YES but until you have been in that situation you still wonder!

You've been there, done that & bought the tee shirt, you can stop wondering now.

On one jump I had over 1.5 mile freefall drift, dumped 0.5 mile downwind of DZ but made it back without too much effort. Still had a long walk back to hanger (500 yards).
Would do it again but would try to take the spot deeper. In the UK I believe 1.5 mile from DZ cross is the max. exit point limit.

No one skydives just to be a hero in the eyes of their mates/workmates, it does not work. They just think you're nuts. It is unliklely that you will change what they think so don't bother.

If they ask first I will talk about skydiving to them but now I keep it short because most of them are not realy interested. If they go on about it to much I reply 'Don't knock what you haven't tried'. Try telling them that a skydiver WITH a death wish usually only jump once then their wish is fulfilled, those with a wish to 'LIVE' come back again & again.

As for dangerous, there are a number of people at my place of work who are (or were) 'into football' (UK) and have bad knees or are always getting injured one way or another yet they say that football is not dangerous.

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Is this a separation phase that others have gone through? It’s just a little un-nerving that the thing that turns me on the most is something that none of my friends/co-workers can relate to. Anyone else gone through this and have some advise for me?

Probably all skydivers have.

Just bumping it back to the top of the list for anyone who asn't read it>

I purchased a Neptune and then later an IR port & Paralog. Setup was simple but I believe that with earlier operating systems that the IR port may be a bit trickier (I have XP). I required no help to do this but I am used to messing about with computers. As USB is plug & Play you should not have a problem.

I have had additional dealings with Klaus at Paralog & Lara at Alti II and both are very helpful and responded quickly & effectley to my situation.

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i will not fondle the trophy girl

WHY what's wrong with her?

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Am I to understand that your planned course of action was to fire the reserve into the snivelling main? Rich! I've never heard of a 1500ft snivel.

I lost 1,200 ft under a snivelling main, pad & handle at the ready thinking 'oh no, this is going to cost me £30' (no AAD or RSL). Got full canopy at 1,800 ft. As I was happy with the altitude, stable on heading, no line twists etc. I did not chop but another 1-2 seconds and I would have.

Not sure at what altitude I would 'go for silver' first. I believe it depend on the situation, whatever I decide I hope it's the right thing to do in the circumstances. If not, then do I want to 'live' to regret it?

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In my dreams, I forget to pull, hit the ground, then get really embarrassed that someone might have seen me. So I sneak off hoping no one saw. I hope that's not preparing me for anything!

I was once told that it's not the initial impact that kill but the bounce, so to stop the bounce 'GRAB THE GRASS' Did you do that in your dreams?

I do not dream (well, if I do I don't remember them) so can't test the theory in a dream and have NO intentions of testing it in real life. Supose I would give it a go if I ever have a 'total' mal. In those circumstances I TRY ANYTHING!

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The parachutes were round and for the most part landed harder than the newer more expensive square parachutes did.

Yes but they also did not have the forward speed of the modern squares so your decent would have been more verticle. Surely a more modern form of footware that is both flexible & supports the ankle suits the modern square canopies.

I know someone who landed barefoot on grass and did not hurt himself (nor did he find the wellington boots he lost on deployment).

More important than what shoes/boots you wear is learning to land safely. (car analogy: forcing people to wear seatbelts ONLY helps in accidents, teaching them to drive properly is MUCH better).

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How the hell does one fall asleep riding a bike?

I know someone who fell asleep walking down the street carrying 2 pints of milk, How did he do that you ask, easy go to bed at 2am get up at 4.30am 2-3 days in a row!

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Cutting away a canopy on a malfunction will not shake you violently, with hard movements back and forth, and there will not be YELLING except maybe in your own head.

Staying calm and knowing how to THINK with a clear mind on EXACTLY what to do, is the best procedure you can do in the case of a canopy malfunction.

When I did my RAPS it was normal procedure at our centre to shake and shout at the hanging student (one course student would do this to another in the suspended harness), the idea was not to simulate a malfunction but to try and distract the student practicing thier suspended EP's. It teaches you to remain calm & react to the situation correctly DISPITE the distraction a mal. may cause. A similar technique is used in training/preparing people to control stress/fear/panic etc. in other aspects of life. As long as it is constructive & not distructive then it does work.

Suspended harness training can also help to teach the art of kicking twists out. We did not put twists in the system but as it was attached to the bracket via a swivel the student, by performing a 'bicycle kicks', could turn full circle. Try doing that on the ground!

The cutaway could also be rigged to drop the student 2-4 inches on their last practice cutaway.

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I tell my students can/should simulate a cutaway on every jump while under canopy, after they have identified the canopy is good and controlable to land safely.

My thoughts on this are that a student on his/her first few jumps may be quite stressed out and MAY DO the EP rather than just practice it. Is this a good thing to teach? Is it wise to practice a procedure that could result in a perfectly good canopy being chopped by mistake?

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You obviously don't know Ron. What you quoted and reacted to is called a JOKE.

I KNOW it was a joke, but so was the incident I was talking about. The other person involved & the police didn't see the funny side. I will be a sad day for everyone if the PC brigade have there own way. If I couldn't take a joke I wouildn't skydive (you would know what I mean if you saw my first 100 or so jumps) or work (or even leave the house for that matter).

And your right, I don't know Ron (but probably know a few like him).