pertierr

As a final note for those searching forums in the future, the Spectre 190 now fits absolutely perfectly in the M4 bag, and closes completely. It took 50-75 pack cycles to get it settled in. Unknown how much of this was evolving skill.

I should clarify, by "on the bag" I meant: When installing a large rubber band, using a double knot around the strap on the bag. Then single stowing the lines. This gives me ~10lbs. As opposed to what I was doing before which was a typical single knot on the bag strap, but then double stowing which gives me ~16lbs. Newbie enthusiasm. I read some guy sewed a canopy from scratch.

I did some tests with small (1 1/4" x 3/8") single stowed and large (2" x 3/8") double stowed. I simulated deployments with a fish scale on 3 locking stows only using the same packjob to reduce variations from that. All bights where ~2.5" The single stowed small bands gave 7-9.5lbs across 10 tests. On one instance one of the stows took 6lbs. Interestingly enough, on the first try with double stowed large bands, one band took 20lbs and broke when it unstowed. However with large bands double stowed I consistently get more than 12lbs (typically ~ 15-16lbs) across 10 tests. The best seems to be double wrapping the large bands on the bag side and then single wrapping on the lines gives me 10lbs. I think i'll keep this approach.

Yes, I don't think I'm comfortable with it going under 7lbs. I am also seeing that it gets close to 7lbs when it packs 'neater' since the canopy is not pushing the stows, which is where i'm trying to get to. I'm ordering some rubber bands and also some tube stows, and will re-measure to see if anything fits the "sweet spot"...

Just measured, double stowing gives me 15-18lbs force. While single stowing hasn't given me less than 7lbs, often it is right at 7lbs, I would think this means any change could drop it under those 7lbs.

Thanks for taking the time to chime in. I've attached a picture of the closest to a 'closed bag' I've gotten, thanks to the feedback and tips from people on this forum. It took a bit of taking the air out once it's bagged, and pulling the lid down, repeat, etc. Also I adjusted a little after it's bagged to fill in the corners, but mostly I made my first S-fold(warning label) a tad smaller. I was doing the 'karate chop' about 6-inches above the warning label, I found if I moved it closer to the warning label then instead of having a wide bottom fold which sticks out of the bag, the excess is on the 'ears' side at the bottom of the bag which I ~think~ is preferable since there are no lines there and it makes it close/fill in the corners better. I have 25 pack jobs on it now, and it's noticeably easier to handle. Also, I got a fish scale and measure the forced required to release the locking stows. I found them to be 7.5-9 pounds. I placed the plastic bag the rig came in under the d-bag so it would remove some of the friction when dragging the bag on carpet. I wrapped the bridle carefully around the hook on the fish scale, and pulled very slowly horizontally as shown in the PD video. It also seems like the lower measurements (7.5lbs) are when the rubber bands have no twists on them. If they have one or two twists from when I pull my fingers out, then it's about 1lb more. I measured the max force required to pull the canopy out of the bag once the stows are undone and came up with ~11lbs. I'm not sure this number is meaningful since the conditions are so different at 120mph. I will do some more tests, I will try a different surface and measuring double locking stows as well. Thanks for pointing out the d-bag difference with the manual. That is the sort of thing that as a beginner I saw but figured there was another explanation for it, like perhaps they have different d-bag options? I did a search and found this on here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4447720;search_string=TMPattersonJr%20D-bag%20question;#4447720 But will still check with them regarding the d-bag. Thanks!

I have corrected my post.

Sorry for the late reply. Been on the road, riding planes I can't jump from. The container is a new Mirage M4 (G4.1). Their service has been beyond phenomenal(custom rig in 2 weeks!), i'm sure that if I needed any adjustments they would oblige. However, since I have so little experience, I just don't have a good feel for how much easier/smaller it gets as it wears in. It could be that it's tight now, but after 100 pack jobs it's just right(?), along with (hopefully)improving packing skills as well. Regarding packing an older canopy, I recently took a canopy packing class at my DZ which got me from not being able to do anything, all the way to actually bagging and closing the container. I learned so much, it would've taken me months to learn just from videos. Anyway, they had me try to bag an older Safire with many many jumps on it, it felt more like folding paper and it was so much easier to put in the bag. The point about the force on the stows is something I have been wondering about. The PD videos swear by double stows. However when I have had people pack this canopy, they always use single locking stows and double else where. It opens great, very soft, which is why I got a spectre. The single locking stows are pretty tight due to the bag not closing completely, but I will get a fish scale and measure this, it's something I've been wanting to check. As for the material on the canopy, it's actually a stock PD canopy! If you go to their stock list, this is part number SP-190-CP7-0027. They just walked it from PD to Mirage, no waiting. My plan right now is to pack it at home non-stop. Since I need the practice anyway, i'm pretty sure I can put 50 or more packjobs on it, and see how it handles then. One thing for sure, if I get this thing bagged any better I will be posting a picture in case I can never do it again. Thanks!

Thanks all for the feedback, I hadn't thought of this and was not trying to fill in the corners after it was in the bag. I will give this a try. I'm trying to do a lot of packs at home to practice and hopefully break it in a little so it's easier to pack...

Hello, I am learning to pack(again) after a long break from the sport. I never really did it often the first time around, and this time I am determined to learn to do it right. I have run into a few questions (PRO packing): 1. I got a new rig with a new Spectre 190, it has 4 jumps on it. I am sure everyone who is learning to pack thinks at some point the bag is too small, but i've heard a couple of comments at the DZ that this one is small for the canopy. I thought i'd get some more input, I've attached a picture, is this too small? It feels like even after removing all the air it still doesn't close all the way and the rubber bands still touch the canopy. 2.I've been dissecting my packjobs. I pull the bag through deployment, and then peel back the tail to look at the lines. I've attached a picture of what it looks like, is this what you'd expect? It seems the brake lines always end up on the sides due to all the tucking after laying the canopy down. I found a similar question on this forum but I haven't found a picture of what a 'correct' pack job looks like after it's been bagged/closed and then unbagged. Thanks.

Thanks for the reply, that clears it up..I was incorrectly interpreting the table, I thought they meant a 176sq ft Raven II.

Hi all, I've recently started jumping again after a long hiatus, and after getting my reserve repacked I noticed something interesting, haven't found an answer with search perhaps someone can clear it up. Apologies if it's a stupid question, but with all this (good) talk about reserve extraction forces, I figured I would re-evaluate my setup. My rig is a Javelin J4 manufactured in 2001 which I bought used around 2005. It has a 185 Safire main and I knew the reserve was a Dash-M, but I didn't remember the exact size...looking at the chart on the sunpath website I expected it to be a ~176. I'm assuming that the 'J4K' is the same size a 'J4' which might be an incorrect assumption. However, after the repack and asking the rigger as it turns out it's actually a 218. This is great, i'm currently 185 out the door so it's loaded at under

Hi all, It was 6yr since I last jumped, I am starting this year again from scratch (AFF). I've missed it way too much and now the DZ is 30min away instead of 3hours. I have a rig which I won't be jumping for a while until I get off student gear, but it's been packed for 6yrs. It's got

is there any way I can check myself if my rig is too large? I'm curious now. I do know that I have to tighten my leg straps all the way to fit my legs, but what else should I check? MLW location when I have the rig on? I was under the impression that it fit me OK, but now it sounds like the leg pain is just a badly fitting rig.

Well, I purchased it from a fellow who bought it new and only did a few jumps on it, i made sure that we where about the same measurements. However, I do have to tighten my leg straps ~all~ the way and I have all this left over slack to wind up. Otherwise the rig doesn't look unsually large for me, i don't know, i've only jumped rentals other than this. I will ask someone expereienced at the DZ next weekend!

This was so awesome, I had to post it here. I have a javelin rig which i bought used, i don't know if it's the sizing or what, but the thigh pain is unbearable even though it has really wide straps and my Safire is a relatively soft opening canopy. I couldn't do more than one jump or maybe two a day because the pain was so unbearable. I guess I got fed up, and I grabbed one of those foam matresses you can buy at Wal-Mart for a few bucks, cut two strips long enough to wrap around my thighs and a bit wider than the leg straps. I wrapped them around my legs, under my jeans so they stay put. All I can say was WOW. That solved the problem completely. If anyone has this problem, do try this, there is absolutely no pain whatsoever, won't jump without it! I looked at the seatbelt pads at walmart but they have very little padding and are not wide enough to wrap around the straps.

Got it! I figured that might be the case, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I figured the thing is so small, if I can jump with a radio around my neck there might be some safe place for it. Maybe not.

I've got one of these and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how it can be worn for skydiving. I'm not looking to get any specific angle footage but rather just for fun. My main concern is putting it somewhere where it won't be too big of an added safety hazard. My jumpsuit has an upper arm pocket which can fit the recorder itself, and then I figured I could maybe strap the bullet camera to my upper arm with very little or none exposed cable. Anyone actually used it in a dive?

I'm not an advanced skydiver by any means, but it seems that the bulk of injuries are caused by low hook turns in which the jumper misjudges the altitude Would it help to have a digital altimeter which would produce a set of audible beeps in which either the pitch or repeat rate matches the altitude over ground level? They could start at a set altitude(100feet or so?), and this way the jumper could have accurate altitude measurement all the way down without having to look at the altimeter. Not meant to replace skill, just give another measurement input. I'm an engineer, sometimes I can't help it. :D Juan

I began skydiving at this DZ about 6 months ago. I've never met a nicer, more professional group of people all in one place. The instructors are always willing to help, and answer any questions. I can always get on a load quickly, in the rare occasion that I can get my canopy bagged without having someone help me. Whatever discipline you're into, there's someone with a great deal of expertise there. If you're in the area, do stop by! You won't want to leave.

Thanks for the input, everyone. I always leave a lot of seperation since I am exiting last and pulling high, I have plenty of time to get back to the DZ. However, i probably should've told the other jumper that I would leave a lot of separation, maybe he was afraid that I wouldn't. In any case, my reasoning was that he falls faster, and i pull much higher for ~sure~. :)

I am currently doing high-pulls just to get aquainted with my canopy. Before I get on the plane I let everyone know where i'm pulling, and usually i'm the first person in the plane, last person out. Today, this other jumper went in before me, i am not sure if he heard my pull altitude or not. However when we were almost at altitude, i told him I was pulling at 7k and asked him where he was pulling. He said 3k so i told him to go ahead in front of me, but he said that he was freeflying so I should go first. After a few exchanges I convinced him to go first, and left plenty of separation as usual. He wasn't rude or anything, i just thought it was pretty obvious that he should go first...am i mistaken? I just figured i don't want this person buzzing by my canopy at 100mph while he still has 4000 feet to fall! Thanks!

I had a nasty motorcycle accident in 1999 and had a burst L4 fracture among other fractures and injuries...it was so serious that my doctor said only 1/100 actually walk after an injury like that. On top of that, i had some questionable medical care because of the country I was in and spent over 2 months in the hospital because of infections, etc. I had L3-L5 fused with Ti rods. It took a lot of thinking to actually start skydiving, but in the end i figured, i'm so lucky to be walking, i'm not gonna spend my time sitting. About the landing, i'm not a doctor but I am an engineer and a physicist, a well-done PLF will add your legs to the equation, thus absorbing more of the impact energy. A butt-landing will, i think, definitely put more force on your back and neck. Regardless of my past injuries i follow all the standard rules, they seem to allow for the greatest margin of safety. Like the last poster, i've also heard that because of the fusion, your back bone is actually stronger over the fused area. I've also had doctors tell me that because of this, if you do have an accident your back will tend to break somewhere else. Hope this helps, and please do jump in if i need to be corrected!

This is my Icarus Safire 185. I actually bought the rig used mainly because it was barely used, but it also happened to be in my favorite color combination. :) My container is a Javelin all black with a few red along the closing flaps.

I'm also currently looking for some gloves, and I happen to come by a black set of the airforce pilot gloves at a local surplus store. They have leather on the bottom and some neoprene-like stuff on the back. Anyone tried these before?