Reginald

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Hi Guys,

In hearing all this news about another attempted plane bombing and the seemingly knee-jerk reaction of banning ALL carry-on luggage, basically anything larger than a purse, how will this affect travelling skydivers?

I wouldn't worry until it happens, which it won't BTW. It was just one of a thousand things being thrown around.

Although since Richard Reid, aka the shoe bomber, we do have to take our shoes off and run them through x ray. I am thinking the next major leap forward in airline security is that everyone has to take their underwear off at security and run it through x-ray now too!

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Some suggested changes:

1. Increase the requirement to be eligible for the USPA Coach rating to 200 jumps and a C license.

2. Add a 12 month as a USPA Coach requirement to be eligible for a Tandem I or AFFI.

3. Add a AFF jumpmaster rating to all new graduates of the AFFCC.

4. Add 12 month requirement as a AFFJM to be eligible for the AFFI rating.

Ozzy, I think we just require 1400 jumps and 5 years in the sport as minimums.

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old news man. I've hacked my logbook a long time ago. I now get double EXP! for every jump i make. I also have all the canopies unlocked.

English translation, please?

LOL. It's a gamer thing. Funny stuff.

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leave at least 50cm between the links and the last line stow

Leave NO MORE THAN 50 cm!!!
Longer "free" lines = bigger chance of horse shoe

Blue skies

Huh? How do longer free lines(stowed in a closed container) add to the chances of a horse shoe? Am I missing something?

The lines are very chaotic on deployment and longer lines have a greater chance of catching on a main flap. I've personally seen a fatality due to this. Bill Booth did some interesting work on this including slow motion video of deployments, with the lines flying about. The Vector manual specifically states "Leave no more than 15 inches (37 cm) of lines unstowed between the bag and the connector links." There IS a reason for this!

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I have found that the Vigil folk seem to be a little more public about any problems with their product and the corrections to those problems.

Really? I perceived the opposite. Although I'll give you that Vigil has had more opportunities to make public announcements about it's products shortcomings.

If you have only been in the sport 6 years

Or 8 years

LOL. Oh, I got my bucket of popcorn early on in this thread!

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I have found that the Vigil folk seem to be a little more public about any problems with their product and the corrections to those problems.

Really? I perceived the opposite. Although I'll give you that Vigil has had more opportunities to make public announcements about it's products shortcomings.

I'm loooking for contact info for a jumpsuit maker I believe is based in Russia. Its called Airhighway

Thanks

I own several UPT rigs and happen to like them a lot. But I've always thought a better company motto would be

"UPT: We make the best stuff...just not very fast."

And before anyone gets bent out of wack, there are other excellent manufacturers too. Geeze people it's only a joke.

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Hard openings, closed end cells, and off heading more often than not. Why do so many people by these shitty canopies?

Really? I’m guessing your packing and body position are terrible as most people at 50 jumps are. Before you blame your equipment maybe look at yourself first.

I have about 1,500 jumps on 3 different size Sabre2’s. I’ve had a handful of hard openings and they were clearly my fault as I was learning how to pack. Funny that slider thing is important.

I’ve found that a head high body position on deployment helps enormously on opening. I can tell the difference between being “flat” and “sitting up” when I throw my PC. When I’m head high the openings are butter soft. When I’m flat they are slightly more random, but not hard. On the few occasions I’ve been head low the openings are much more brisk.

The vast majority of my openings are on heading. Body position and packing clearly make a difference here too. I will say that the canopy probably has less on heading openings than some canopies though.

Hmm, so packing and body position matter. Go figure!

The Sabre2 is one of the best all around canopies I’ve flown. It is sporty at high WL and predictable at low WL. And the flare is unbelievable. Properly flared I can essentially shut it down in any wind conditions and density altitude.

I’ve owned other canopies but have recently settled in to flying my S2. Why, because it is predictable, with soft openings, it is sporty at my WL and yet I can land it anywhere, anytime in any conditions. Sounds like a fine combination to me.

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I recently bought a brand new Sabre2 and I was just about ready to send it back and buy a Pilot because it slammed me all the time and opened off heading. Altering my pack jobs and deploying slightly head high seem to have fixed this.

So you're saying that proper packing and body position were the issue?

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If there is a preplanned direction follow it, even if it means landing cross wind.

Even if it means cutting up everyone else on final?

Read my whole post don't quote mine it.

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Bill gets a full DZ brief that includes being told that the landing direction is North for today.

Under canopy Bill watches other jumpers landing below him. He notices that they are mostly landing in a Westerly direction. He looks at the wind socks and they are now pointing firmly to the east confirming that in order to land into the wind he would also have to land in a westerly direction.

So Bill lines up for a west facing landing square into the wind and lands perfectly a good safe distance from all other canopies.

Back at manifest, Bill gets told off by the guy who did his DZ briefing for landing in the wrong direction. Bill looks at the windsocks that now are pointing South again. He tries to explain but gets told firmly that must do as he is told.

To boil down a few salient items in your post:

1 You were briefed that the landing direction was to the North.

2 Canopies were landing in several directions (you use the word "mostly" not all).

3 You land in a direction different from what you were instructed to.

4 You are chastised for violating your safety briefing.

What's the problem other than your feelings were hurt? As one of my favorite skydivers says, "Suck it up cupcake."

Just because some people didn't follow the pre-planned pattern does not excuse you from doing so unless everyone landed a different direction. The DZ is right to enforce the preplanned pattern with everyone that violated it, you included. You likely would not know if other people were talked to also but it's a good bet they were.

Sorry but you aren't getting any sympathy from me at this point. It sounds like light and variable winds were the issue. If there is a preplanned direction follow it, even if it means landing cross wind.

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He didn't think much of this response! He said I'd have nowhere near enough time to track away from the group. He seemed to suggest that I should instead pull (the main!) straight away and deal with any consequences.

Do you wear an AAD and how does that factor into your decision on which handle to pull? And why?

Hmm, let's look at a few team names:

Deguello 17
Deguello 9

I think these guys get it.

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Gosh, the Nationals are not even a third over and you have said they did a great job. Maybe you can award them the Nobel Peace prize, too.

There are many events to be run and many jumps to be done. I'm here all this week and next week, so I'll wait to a little bit. There have been glitches, and overall its been great, but ....

I'm waiting to cast my ballot.

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What, there are events after 4 way???

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The biggest advantage to pulling both handles is that it eliminates the decision time for "do I pull one or both" from the process. Instead of a second or two lost deciding on which EP to follow, just execute.

Frankly, I'm surprised at how many people are dismissive of this issue. It is a REAL issue. The time wasted in deciding what to do, for MANY people, almost certainly takes more time than the extra second to pull a red handle. The "decision time" is reduced as people have more jumps and are more current, however.

Thus the right answer for a student may not be the right answer for someone that jumps every weekend and has thousands of jumps. Everyone else is somewhere along the spectrum.

One guy's opinion based on attending Nationals, is that this whole thing is a non-issue. It's just a made up issue for people on the internet, that likely are not affected in any way, to complain about "The Man."

And while we are at it IMHO Spaceland did a great job with the facilities and hosting of Nationals.

Is the travel from Nigeria?

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So i guess my question is, Have you who have been in this sport for years feel like after a long time of jumping you percieve skydiving as minimal risk??

The longer I'm in the sport the more funerals I go to and the more crippling, life changing injuries of close personal friends I see. Many of these people did nothing wrong and everything right.

So to answer your question, "No."

So which is better?

A. 500 jumps and 2 years and 6 months in the sport but at DZ 52 weekends a year
B. 500 jumps and 5 years in the sport but at DZ every OTHER weekend (26 weekends a year)

The problem with time “in sport” doesn’t necessarily mean it’s time applied TO the sport. In the example above both A and B have the exact equal amount of time applied TO the sport, assuming they only time they apply to the sport is while at the DZ (which is probably a reasonable assumption for everyone but the handful of DZ.com fanatics).

Does one gain knowledge by osmosis if they are at a day job, home with the kids, or focusing on something else? Does this knowledge only come from being at the DZ? Likely it is neither extreme.

Probably the reason for jump numbers or freefall time being the primary method of measuring experience is because they are the most reliable measure of time actually applied TO the sport. Is this the perfect system, of course not. Would adding time in sport be beneficial, possibly but likely the collinearity with jump numbers is such that it makes it appropriate to use only jump numbers instead.

While it’s off topic for your question about Wing suites, etc., personally, for USPA - AFFI’s I’d rather see a requirement for “X” number of coached jumps than I would time in sport. It’s more likely to be beneficial than number of years since a person’s first jump, or time since receiving a coaches rating.

Of course opinions vary…

This is why I get a laugh at the discussions of exit separation. It’s almost like someone mentioning a communist in the early 50’s or health care reform at a town hall meeting today, or throwing a litter of kittens into chummed, shark infested waters.

I state "If the previous group has not moved sufficiently over the ground (which is the actually visual reference one is supposed to be looking for in the “45 degree rule”)"

And then get jumped on “Here's an even better idea. Know what the uppers are doing each day, time your exit, then stick your head out the door and look DOWN until you're ready to go.”

Forget the fact that I specifically referenced that looking at the ground (which is down by the way in case anyone forgot) is part of the process. It’s then followed up with the presumption that I wouldn’t be looking for other issues such as planes, which is just stupid; OF COURSE one should be looking for those other things. It’s so obvious I would hope it wouldn’t need to be stated. Please excuseeeeuse me (in my best Steve Martin impersonation) for using the generic reference although I already explained that is not the actual intent, "looking at the group that previously left" in future sentences.

I then state, “There is valid information to be gained from sticking one’s head out the door and LOOKING at the group that left previously.” Forget that I already stated that one is really looking for separation over the ground (which means looking down at the distance the plane is traveling over the ground; this is of course ground speed which is a combination of the planes airspeed and the upper level winds). Gee that’s what “timed separation” is trying to do too.

The response I get is,”Well, yes, you can see whose jumpsuit matches whose rig. But while that is perfectly valid information, it doesn't help you know how long to wait.”

So after the silly parsing of words, misconstrued, assaults and other non-sense that goes on anytime someone talks about separation on the site let me put it in simple words for everyone.

I agree timed separation is good; in case anyone missed it in my post I use it. I also believe that looking out the door is good; and believe (other than the usual things one should be looking for such as incoming planes, clouds etc.) that one can get a measure of separation by understanding how fast the plane is traveling over the ground, i.e., making an “eyeball” determination of separation over the ground between groups.

Wow, I think I’ll go protest for Media rights in Venezuela next, the level of discourse is more tame there.

You're misreading the email. It applies to license application cards. Likely you've never seen one. This is different from your A license proficiency card. Basically, as long as an Instructor singes off on you final A license you have nothing to worry about.

The same thing I say when people try to use timed separation and don't know the direction and strength of the upper level winds, the direction the plane is flying relative to them or how to count without rushing. DON'T KILL ME! And then we sit down and I explain to them how both 45 and timed separation are trying to do the same thing which is to provide adequate separation over the ground between groups at opening.

And while this board has a strong bias toward timed separation (and I tend to agree) the 45 degree guys have a valid point, that it approximates separation pretty well and is simple to understand and execute; which means it is less likely to be screwed up in its execution although it is theoretically less sound. It has major flaws but honestly so does timed separation; which is theoretically better but many people tend to fail to understand or execute properly. If I only had a dollar for every person that told me that 6 seconds was all that was ever needed and had no clue how to calculate separation based on the inputs.

Here’s a wild concept I use - I actually know what the uppers are doing each day and throughout the day - I use timed separation combined with sticking my head out the door and looking at the group that left before me while I’m counting. If the previous group has not moved sufficiently over the ground (which is the actually visual reference one is supposed to be looking for in the “45 degree rule”) than I add to my count and recheck the uppers when I get down as they might be stronger than I was told. If there is too much separation over the ground based on my count than good but I also recheck the uppers to see if there has been a material change in their strength so I can recalibrate my timed separation for the next jump.

This inane bickering about 45 degrees amazes me. There is valid information to be gained from sticking one’s head out the door and LOOKING at the group that left previously. When added to the information about the strength of uppers and timed separation, it produces a superior result than either one independently and hence improved safety! Two independent systems that check each other and taking the result that produces the more conservative result improves safety. So what’s the problem here?

And while people are on pet peeves about separation, why is it that some people that use only timed separation don’t stick their heads out the door and LOOK? It drives me bonkers!

Instead of getting into a cat fight about how the “45 degree rule” doesn’t work with a bunch of old timers, which is a pointless battle, why not accept that there is valid information to be gained in its application which is why they gotten away with it for decades? (And remember anyone alive to have the conversation with it has worked for! The dead ones aren’t around to have the conversation) Here’s a hint though – they aren’t really looking for 45 degrees - they are looking for separation over the ground (even if they aren’t expressing it that way) which is yet another reason this debate with protractors is so silly. Why not explain to them that timed separation does the same thing with improved accuracy, and if they tried using it ALSO, while they are looking out the door, it will provide superior results? They might decide they like it! Telling someone that what they’ve done successfully for a lot of years doesn’t work will not win any converts. And honestly the smug “you’re doing it wrong” approach only shows one’s own ignorance in that there IS valid information to help gauge exit separation by looking at the group before you, which is likely why you aren't being received well.

Can’t we just all co-exist?

1,800 as per the MINIMUM recommended by the US SIM for B-D license holders. I'd particularly encourage anyone with less than 1,000 jumps that uses a number lower than this to think through it carefully. 1,800 is pretty damn low as is when things are going really badly.

The time for the reserve to open is less the issue than the time to recognize a problem and react.

Find a new dz! Yes it is an instructors responsibility to be fully functional anytime they interact with students. Personally, I make sure I get a good nights sleep and drink little, and more likely nothing, the night before I teach. This means I leave the Saturday night party at the dz early and get abused for it.

If you are jumping anywhere that it is acceptable for instructors to show up impared due to lack of sleep and too short a period from "bottle to toggle" then find a new dz.