jonstark

I had no back-up in either form as you suggest. Single point of failure. I think the shunt would have been best. Remember, it's a long rap and things get very hot.

I think a firemans belay on the bottom would also be a good idea. If the rapper loses control the person on the bottom pulls on the rope adding to it's weight and stops the descent.

To those interested in the tech involved in rappelling into the cave and it's complexity...

This is very serious business. I have climbed big walls for years and had never done such a long rap. It's about 1100 feet of free-air to the bottom.

What is necessary is to start out with very little friction on the rope so as to slide down it without having to hand feed the rope thru the friction device. The reason for this is because as you start the weight of the rope hanging beneath you pulls so hard on the rap device that even a small amount of friction is sufficient to stop your descent. The friction device is adjustable as you go along for this reason. As the weight of the rope beneath you decreases by virtue of your descent you must add friction to remain in control. This is done by holding tighter to the rope below you -or- by adding more friction to the device with which you are sliding down the rope. Adding friction to the device used in this instance is very simple and with care can be done in seconds. I'm sure the parties involved practiced this move prior to getting on the rope.

As I said... this type of rap is pretty unique to the caving world. It is rarely done elsewhere so very few have the experience in our BASE community if they haven't been to the cave.

When I went to the cave with Aerial Extreme I was most impressed with the emhasis they put on safety and proper training. Their rigging is exemplary and done by world class experts in the field.

Jon Stark Cave BASE#69

Quote

I disagree Keely. If there's one regret that I have it's that I told anyone I BASE jumped. That applies to family and professional life.

I agree there. When I won the Nationals and we set the 100 way record my parents responce was "Oh, we thought you'd quit that." They see the few pix that I have up and don't ask.

You can build bridges all your life but just get busted on one antenna and that's all the folks at work can remember. "Aren't you that guy who..." "Jumped off any perfectly good bridges lately?"

My dad is keen to ask about my mountaineering tho. I have just as many friends if not more that are dead from the big mountains than I have lost in skydiving but they understand the call of the mountains. I just won't bother them with the worry of BASE.

I hid it from my wife as I became current after 18 years out of it. When I felt I was back and had taken too many BASE trips to deny I'd been jumping I told her. Funny thing is she was pissed because I hadn't told her. Not at all because I was jumping. She encouraged me to get out more to be proficient and recent.

jon

Quote

Anyone who tells you they remember the 80's at Z-Hills probally wasn't an original ToadSucker.

You're right...It is all kind of a blur.

I remember wearing a pendant made of a flattened, mummified toad found in the parking lot. There were a few of those around at the time. I just can't remember where it was. I think it was in Covington, LA and they made it to the Hills for Turkey Meet.

Was that a Toad Sucker thing or just an abberation?

jon

I remember sitting around the Z-Hills fire pit in about 79/80 with a couple of Dem Toad Suckers. I can't remember who they were or where they were from but I used to see them at lots of boogies.

Who/when/where are/were they? Alittle history or memory jogger please?

thx, jon

Thanks for reminding me. What memories! Sadly there are a few on the load that are gone. I remember jumping shortly after the Xenia tornado. When was that? my logs are too sketchy.

jon

Their cavalier operating attitude as evidenced by "showing off" was the reason I never jumped the a/c and I was a semi-local!

jon

The aircraft had been in maintenance for the week and they had found the fuel system contaminated by an unknown source. The a/c was grounded by the maintenance provider and marked clearly that it was not to be flown under any circumstances. Cowboy or one if his representatives went and retrieved the a/c with no return to service. The story I got was they didn't believe there was enough of a problem to ground them as they thought the fuel filters would bypass and allow proper flow even if the system was contaminated. Remember the Caravan was new to everybody, especially those on the bottom of the food chain, Skydive operators.

Anyway... They took the a/c and went down to the DZ and the rest is history. Their source of contamination was 55 gallon drums stored out in the open with the tops flat. They should be tilted if left out in the open so that any rain won't go into the bung when the drums heat up then cool down.

The fuel contamination lesson was not learned by all tho...

There was a suicide at the atlanta DZ in about 78 that was witnessed by many. The victim tracked to the pit and missed by a few feet but left a remarkable crater of a tracking body.

From time to time a few of the jumpers there would quietly go out and scuff their feet in the crater to prevent the grass from growing.

This was not so much out of disrespect for the dead or macho-bravado. It was to remind us all that deaath is real. Sadly this same DZ got a much bigger reminder when Cowboy took the Caravan out of maintenance without it being properly returned to serivce and killed a load. Now after many years and the loss of many friends I'm sure their tune has changed.

I think if you go back in Gulch history and see who was active there during the heyday of Black Death you'll find that many are gone and the rest have matured quite nicely. We all grow up sooner or later.

jon

Mike Barber of Deland had a rig that held two single keel Dactyls. It weighed about 14 pounds and was about an inch thick. Everybody was concerned with getting as light as possible to keep from going low and trying to get as thin and wide a profile to be less drag during a swoop to the formation. We were all "racing in the back". I jumped it a couple of times and was pretty wowed by the feeling of such a light rig. Almost like wearing nothing compared to my StratoStar/Tri-con rig of about 24 pounds.

I had a ThunderBow that I shortlined about 3' that opened and landed great. It was still just about as bulky as a PC so I didn't use it much. As a matter of fact I used to put it into a Piggly Wiggly bag with the risers taped to the top of it. I'd stash it under the pilots seat and after throwing three static line students out at 2800 would hook it up to my harness as the pilot took one more climbing orbit to let me out around 3200'. I'd climb out with the bag in my arms and hop off back to the wind and release the bag to watch it open. Always entertaining.

jon

I remember in mid 76 seeing a couple of guys in Deland, Ricki-tikki Rundel and Mike Barber and Bobby and Matt, doing the earliest crew I can think of. They all had Strato-Stars and/or homebuilts. On April 27th 77, I got my first canopy hook-up with Lew Sanborn. It was his first as well. I had a Strato-Star and Lew had a Cloud. He bottom docked me and we rode it for 1000'.

Some time later the Toad Suckers were really hanging it out and pushing the envelope. I was sitting around the fire with them at Z-Hills one night and made the uninformed statement that CRW "is like RW in slow motion". I was immediately reminded by one of them that "It ain't so slow when you're wrapped up and slingin' around in the strings!" I had to agree having experienced a couple of simple collapses.

What ever happened to Dem Toad Suckers?

What are the earliest controlled docks that y'all remember?

Contact Bill Coe at PD. He's one technical muthuh!

jon

In the 70's Dana Morrison used to have a VW with the license "SKYDIE". Her nic-name was "Ma Death". She was on the all girl 10 way team out of Deadland called "Snoots are for Toots". It was a wild time to be in the sport.

The world meet was held in Z-Hills in 81. The DZ was brand new having just moved from the center of the field to the SE corner. Just before the meet George Kabeller decided to burn off all the grass in the landing/packing area. The meet became known as the "Blue Skies/Black Feet meet.

Robert Kempf and I used to have a DZ named Skydive City in Sylvania, GA. Back in 76 or 77 I dug a pea pit with the help of an underwater demolitions guy who provided me with 36 sticks of dynamite. We very carefully arranged them in an array so as to blow the dirt away from the center. I let my girlfriend touch the battery and BOOM. The dirt went about 100 feet in the air and came right back down where it came from.

I spent the next couple of weekends digging the pit about two feet deep and 30 feet in diameter. We laid drainage pipes and filled it with very white sand blasting slag. You could see the pit for miles in the corner of the field. It made for a good student reference. As a matter of fact I flew over the field years later and the circle was still visible.

Now that I think about it though... I can't remember using the pit for accuracy. I was too busy throwing students out and getting back to the trailer to gather up another three or pack for them.

At Beaver Valley Skydivers outside of Pittsburg they used to rototill their peas annually. It really is necessary to keep them properly soft for serious accuracy.

At Perris there was a light circle that I thought were peas and, loving accuracy, went for them only to find the pit compacted to hardpan. UGH!

How about lurking on both and jumping instead pf posting!!!

jon593

Bob is so tight ... Nah, I better not. Nobody could ever get anything on Bob. He's a saint. Ain't he?

As far as Snarl goes... He's no saint. Just an ol' lech and you can tell him I said so.

Please relay my best to all.

jon

Hi All,

Jon Stark here. Started in 74 with Pittsburg's Beaver Valley Skydivers. Then moved to Savannah and started Skydive City with friends then on to Dedland about a year before Tommy and Bob. On first 90 and 100 ways. 10 way Nat'l champs with Carl DogEater in 86.

Now in LA pretty much only BASE jumping (only the legal stuff anymore). Got a coupla gremmies and am virtually retired. Lovin' life! Miss y'all.

jon

I'd humbly suggest a simple posting of a sign in internationally understandable pictographs of the suggestions and rules. You know, with circles and slashes and arrows then exxes for eyes on the noncompliant.

It'd be the fodder for many comments like "Who the hell would do that?" but I guarantee somebody will slink away to change their gear or get something corrected. And they wouldn't even have to read then dispose of a pamphlet.

jon