skr

>Let me know if you see any improvement.
>I've made a few changes.

The readable, almost white text in the nav
bar returned the next day.

It's all OK now.

As I clicked on various nav bar elements
I noticed that some stayed white and an
underline appeared when I put the mouse
on them, while others turned dark and unreadable.

I was going to file a more complete description,
but I just realized that some of them are turning
the "read link" color, which is too dark for that
dark nav bar.

I also noticed that the nav bar is not consistent
across all pages, but I'm just a perfectionist and
it's all perfectly usable.

Thank you for this place Sangiro.

Skr

>BTW the movie isn't that old

:-) :-)

I didn't think so either, but you and I
may have a little different perspective.

Skr

>My guess is he meant to say "Goldmine"

:-)

That was my guess too but I didn't feel right
saying it outright when English is like his 3rd
or 4th language, so I just spun off into other
possibilities.

Skr

FreeBSD 4.9

Mozilla 1.6 built native for FreeBSD,
not Linux Mozilla running on Linux Emulation.

Today is the first day that I noticed it, but for
the last few days I've logged in in the morning,
done other things and logged back out in the
evening so it may have been that way and I
just didn't notice.

When I put the mouse on one of the links in the
nav bar it changes color to a dark blue and I can
barely make out the letters.

When the mouse is not there the nav bar is uniformly
dark with little, barely visible "|"s indicating the
boundaries of the fields.

Today the text in the top nav bar which has

Home Forums ... Webmail

is dark blue against a dark background and
I can't read it.

I have to put the mouse on the area and then
look down at the bottom of the window and see
what URL it would go to

> Locked threads also has an educational purpose.

I think this is a better approach than editing out posts
or otherwise rewriting history.

Knowing that what you say will be there for a long
time nudges more people to think more before ...

Well, you know ...

I was just pausing because I was wondering what's
going to happen when Sangiro meets his soul mate
and runs off to some south sea island for a few years
and the server crashes ...

Skr

> thanks for posting that link skr I've printed out the spreadsheet

Just above the link where you got that spread sheet
are two articles about dealing with uppers.

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/sg_skr_dealing_1_uppers.html

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/sg_skr_dealing_2_tables.html

Why don't you print those out and ask the people at
your DZ what they think?

The idea was to make a best guess at the tables and
then try them for a season or two and adjust based on
experience.

There is more to dealing with uppers than just the
procedures for exit separation.

I would like to know what other people think about
this approach.

Skr

>OK, that's it, Phil; You've been spending WAY to much
>time hanging around with Skratch!!!

Hey! Watch it, kid!

I've had a Cypres for four years now!

I finally had to repack my reserve to change
the dang battery!

Grumble grumble ... who ever heard of a parachute
needing a dang battery? ... mumble mumble ...

Who ever heard of a man needing to walk his fish??

... what this world's coming too ... ... ( mumble mumble ...

Skr

>Your retrofit belly band seems like a way for a
>small jumper to use a rig that is way too big for them.

Up to a point the belly band does help student
rigs fit better, but the rig has to be reasonably
close to start with. You can't push it too far.


But I find my rig much more comfortable with the
horizontal back strap free and a belly band.

When I ordered the rig I talked to John (Sherman)
on the phone about it and he understood what
I wanted and said he would make it that way.

But it came with the horizontal back strap coming
out of the bottom corners of the main container
in accordance with current fashion, so I guess
the guys in the back room doing the sewing
didn't quite believe it.

I had to free the back strap up myself.

The advantages for me are that the harness fits
me instead of the container, the main lift webs
move around in front so the handles are not
buried back under my armpits, and the belly
band holds everything snug.


Also, I probably shouldn't admit this in public but,
I haven't really felt safe since piggy backs came
out.

I had about 1,200 jumps on regular gear, with the
reserve in front where it's supposed to be, and
ever since I got a piggy back I feel like I've been
jumping without a reserve.

The belly band reassures some ancient neural
pathway formed in childhood that I've actually got
a rig on when I jump out :-) :-)

Skr

>We have a chart in the back of our Porter

I think this is a good direction to go.

Down at the bottom of

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html

there is a section called "Upper Winds and Exit
Separation" and in that section there are a couple
of articles about this idea:

2004 - Dealing with Uppers - part 1

and

2004 - Courtney Frasch - Exit Separation Spreadsheet

When this was brought up to the manager of the
closest local DZ he thought it was a bad idea
and wouldn't do it.

I don't understand the resistance to addressing
this question but it's been going on for a long time.

Maybe if enough of the rest of the world moves on
this the skydiving industry here in the US will follow
along and PCA, I mean USPA, will come along too.

I know I should maintain my serenity on this and be
ever cheerful and helpful, but every weekend I encounter
people following me out who, if they've been taught
anything at all, answer with "wait 5 seconds and go"
or "wait for 45 degrees and go" and the loading area
with the props turning isn't the place to go into it.


Patience ... om om om ... this is a test ... om om om ...
of how well you can maintain ... om om om ... in the
face of distraction ... om om om ... :-) :-)

Skr

> I see far to many jumpers both senior and students not checking their gear before, kiting up.

I have sometimes wondered if this reflects training
or maybe personality traits or maybe just a phase
someone is going through.

I have always been meticulous and anal about my
gear and try to instill that in the new jumpers I'm around.

But I've seen a lot of incredible casualness over the
years.

Just a couple weeks ago during a Casa boogie I saw
a guy with several hundred jumps chuting up and I
thought something looked funny.

I walked around behind him and neither of his side
flaps were done. The top and bottom were done and
the pilot chute was stowed but both side flaps were
loose.

He probably had a word with the packer when he
got down but I'll bet he checks his gear now :-) :-)

Skr

In answer to your progressing to B, C and D
question: while you're going towards your A
license watch all the more experienced jumpers
and start finding some good role models that
you can feel some rapport with and start hanging
out with them.


>Is the course difficult?

I think AFF is a pretty steep path. It's better to
think of 7 levels to make it through than 7 jumps.

But start finding instructors that you feel comfortable
with, tell the truth to yourself and them, practice a lot
during the week.

You'll be OK.

Do the jumps close together and get over that initial
hump.

The sky is a cool place to hang out with friends.

Skr

I just got a new Stiletto 170 and I was getting
like 1 out 3 hard openings.

I was doing all the things I knew: good rubber
bands, slider all the way up and so on, and I
was starting to think about a pocket slider too.

Then the PD traveling circus came through and
Vladi thought I was not keeping the slider all the
way up and showed me a couple ideas.

So now I've had 5 good openings in a row, although
I still cringe and get ready every time I throw the
pilot chute.

I've really started watching what I might be doing
that could move the slider from the time I lay it on
the ground till it's in the bag.

The Stiletto is apparently much more sensitive to
slider position than other canopies I've jumped.


I probably won't relax for another 50 jumps but
if it really was my packing technique causing the
problem I'll be happy because I otherwise love the
canopy.


I would call PD and ask for help, send it back,
get a reline, have them jump it or whatever.

I have always found them to be really helpful.

Skr

> What is the 45 degree rule????

I think it's based on the plausible-at-first-glance
idea that when the group in front of you has fallen
far enough behind the plane it's OK to go.

But:

1 - they never actually get to 45 degrees so it's
a poor name

2 - it misleads you to think about some angle when
it's really horizontal separation that you're after

3 - if there are uppers it doesn't work

Down at the bottom of

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html

is a collection of people's writing about separation.


It reflects the fact that people would rather have
a simple sound bite answer than a more complicated
answer that actually addresses the situation.

That may be unfair but I'm getting disgruntled by
this trend that I'm seeing:

- sound bite butt slide instead of PLF

- sound bite 45 degree rule instead of better answers

- sound bite follow first person down instead of some
better procedure

- sound bite down size instead of deciding whether
you even want to and then getting some substantial
training


I think part of the reason is that the skydiving industry
is now driven by simple corporate bottom line and
letting other important factors slide, plus USPA has
done almost nothing about any of this.

If you want to see how much progress we've made
see USPA's response to separation down at the bottom
of that URL.


So, I hope I don't regret saying all this stuff, but I really
don't like this sound bite trend.

Skr

> Bill is a minefield of experience and knowledge collected from years of not only participating in this sport but really thinking about every aspect of it.

"minefield" ??

That's an interesting choice of word :-) :-)

Or did you mean "Mind Field"?

But you're right, Bill has been one of the real thinkers.

Skr

>What's the safest way to accomplish a second lower pass

I think go arounds should probably be offset
from the first pass, assuming the dropzone is
open enough to allow that.

If you do a 180 you get back over the first
groups too soon and some of the canopies
may still be up there in the kill zone.

But with people pulling higher and higher
I sometimes wonder about full 360 go arounds
that take several minutes.

Probably another area that needs to be
re thought some time.


I was thinking two passes because all the
tandems and students are in the last half of
the load and you don't want them landing out.

But also trying to squeeze all the groups into
a single jump run by telling them to get out
really close together is a bad idea.

Bryan Burke's big sky theory works in our favor,
but it can't be part of the separation procedures.


My guess is that starting from 5,000 ft field
elevation on a hot and humid day they got to
the last load before refueling and saw that they
were getting low.

They probably didn't want to accept that they
were getting too low until they absolutely had
to and then didn't want to accept the mistake
and shift into emergency alternatives.

So they tried to bridge the gap by telling the
jumpers to all get out on one pass close together.

I'm often surprised even now by how little pilots
understand about jumping.

So I understand all that, that's how people operate.
It's hard to admit mistakes, especially in the heat
of the action.

I'm just saying that if we think about this ahead of
time we can come up with a better response next
time it happens.

Lots of small groups on a pretty big plane is the
worst case.

Skr

>And the other thing that really bugs me is having groups
>getting out too close together, or if they're behind you
>yelling at your group to get out faster, JUST because
>they think the spot is getting too long. Having one group
>take a long time in the door isn't rectifiable by having
>everyone else get out on top of one another - you're just
>exchanging a relatively small risk for a much bigger one.

Yes, that bugs me too. It's lack of training or immaturity
or something.

This last weekend we had a Casa passing through and
on one of the loads, about a minute before red light stand
by, the frantic word came back that there wasn't enough
fuel for a go around, everybody out on this pass, no more
than 3 seconds between groups.

I don't know how we got into that situation, it was hot and
humid and climbing slow, so maybe they miscalculated or
something.

But I thought, if we're running out of fuel, we're edging into
an emergency situation, and should stop acting like
everything-is-normal-except-it's-not-really and drop part
of the load on this pass and the rest on a lower pass on
the way back down.

There were a whole bunch of small ways.

But convincing a Casa load of jumpers plus two pilots
who probably weren't in a mood to listen to a lowly jumper
anyway didn't seem feasible in the next 30 seconds, so
we went and hoped for the best.

It seems like in an open area landing out is a better idea
than getting out too close together.

I don't know what all the rest of the groups did, but we
were second out and left normal separation and so did
the group behind us. They had turned on the green light
early so we were pretty short, but everybody landed OK.


This seems related to the mental gear shift needed for
malfunctions where the world changes from normal
E-ticket Disneyland to deep spinach emergency.

Skr

>What would you do?

I do my best, either in person with gentle cajoling
or a straight out Sport Death speech, or through a
third party if I'm not a credible source.

One of the hard things I've had to accept is that
my influence on the world is finite and limited.

Some people are not going to listen. Some S&TAs
and DZOs are not going to listen. Some people
listen but disagree. Maybe I'm even wrong.

But you have to do your best even though the
end result is not up to you.

Skr

>You notice that the spot has become VERY long.

>If you exit, you'd have to pull high to get back.

>You ask for a go around.

>What happens?

Sometimes I get a go around, sometimes I get
yelled at.

But whether to go or not depends on circumstances.

At Eloy over Christmas I go because it's wide open
and they really pay attention and will send a truck
out for you.

At Quincy I've gone thinking that there are enough
open fields near roads down there.

Although one year I was in the first group out of a
Casa. The light went from red standby to green go,
I didn't recognize anything down there but thought
it was just my lack of familiarity. We landed 7 miles
short.

At home by myself I would probably just go and then
angle off the jumprun and track because I like to track.

With a student I will not intentionally land out. We have
to be inside the leading or trailing edge of their wind
cone.

I'm not talking about getting them onto the peas, but
just making it to the clear area that the peas are in.

With more experienced groups I don't see why we
should have to get out too long and then abandon
the plan and pull high.

Anyway, it's dangerous if people start pulling and/or
tracking off in the middle of a jump.


So economics and turbines are a valid concern, but
people getting hurt really sucks even more to me.

Skr

>Coaches seem to have the greatest impact on the ground

:-) :-)

There may be a better way to phrase that, but I agree.

And I spend probably 75% or more of the time on how
to be a good parachute jumper, it seems more relevant
than freefall at that early stage.


( I didn't vote in the poll, but I started teaching and putting
( out first jump students when I had 20 jumps.

Skr

I've wished for the same thing.

Skr

I have a belly band on my rig. It's sewn along
the bottom edge of the main container. I ordered
it that way from Jumpshack some years ago.

When the rig came I undid the stitching along
the bottom edge of the main container and got
the horizontal back strap free of the container
so the harness now fits me instead of the container.

This also allows the main lift webs to move around
in front so I can find the handles instead of having
them buried back behind my armpits somewhere.

The belly band holds the container in place and
also takes some of the weight, like the waist strap
on a backpack does.


One dropzone here has Mirage student rigs which
come with removable belly bands.

The students love them once you show them how
it works, but the local jumpmasters are pretty resistant
and take them off, so I always have to go find one
when I'm helping a student.


I think the picture in the ad was exaggerated to
make a point.

I also think the harness and container design took
a wrong turn when they integrated the harness into
the container and made the shoulder and leg straps
come out of the corners of the container.

That wide over the shoulders design is really
uncomfortable.

I added an elastic thingy between my leg straps too.


So I see the possible return of belly bands as a good
trend in the ongoing evolution of gear design.

Skr

> Hi Mr Garrison

"Mr Garrison"? .. glancing nervously over his shoulder.

Nobody's called me that in a really long time!

I wonder whether anybody is left on rec.skydiving?

They all seem to be hanging out over here now.

Skr

>were you part of the Arvin Good Guys in November '67 for the first ever RW competition (10-way star)

Yes.

If you're wanting to know more about some aspect
of this like who or how or why I can check my log
book or even my failing memory.

Skr

>want to add that 7 seconds might be a bit long

You know, I was just thinking that when I suggested
using 2000 ft for a bit of margin that maybe I didn't
say that strong enough and maybe I should come
back here and fix that ...

Thank you.

Skr