marcwgarber

Dude!

My Vortex II was a comfy rig. The 155 main (whatever it was) was good too. A little big for me, but a nice canopy.

My Viper 120 and two Viper 105s were fan-freaking-tastic. The 105s opened soft and snively and surfed very well. Admittedly, the 120 had snappy openings.

My Tempo 120 opened, flew, and landed VERY NICELY the one time I needed it.

Don't be knocking the South African gear. :-)

Marc

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If anybody knows Marc Garber could you please tell him that was a well-written piece (IMHO).

Marc used to be a regular poster to rec.skydiving and his email address can be found by doing a simple newsgroup search. He pops up now and again trying to sell some crappy second-hand South African copy gear.

You make some good points, thanks. I currently have a line on a Stiletto 135 that I'll probably test out in a couple of weeks. If I remain semi-current then it will be conservative and familiar enough for me. If I start jumping regularly then I'll have time to figure out exactly what I want (model and size).

I must admit that I'm really curious about the Crossfire 2 now, because so many people mentioned it, but I suppose I can be patient, LOL. And I will probably do a little more than 90 degree turns to final but I definitely won't be getting too aggressive at this point.

Thanks again,

Marc

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Given all that and the fact that you say just 90's I would start back with a Stiletto.
It's still a terrific all-around canopy. It's what you know how to fly (even after that many years, you'll get back to speed on this pretty quick).
135's are easy to find used.
New high performance canopies have very different flight characteristics.
If after a year or two you want to move on to something else, you won't lose much.

I made this post a couple of weeks ago in the "gear & rigging" forum but it has been suggested that I should have posted it here instead. So here it is:


I've been out of the sport for 11 years but got recurrent today. Wondering what main canopies I should consider? Here's some background:

- 1300+ jumps, and was jumping a Viper 105 when I quit (very similar to the Stiletto 107). I have close to 1000 jumps on ellipticals wing-loaded at 1.5 to 1.8.

- I'm 42. Not as young as I once was, but still in decent shape.

- I'm not coming back full-time at this particular point in my life. If I were, then I would work my way into a sub-100 sq/ft cross-braced canopy and stay current with it. I'll probably make less than 100 jumps per year.

- My typical approach will probably be a 90-ish degree front-riser turn to landing. I like a good turf surf but I won't be getting too crazy with it since I probably won't be jumping enough to fly at the level I used to.

So, with that background in mind, I'm thinking something in the 120-135 range would work (my exit weight now is about 195). But what???

I know I don't want a Sabre (although maybe a Sabre 2). Most of my jumps are on Stilettos or the very similar Viper, but that is now 20 year old technology, so I'm sure that there are some better options - I just don't know what they are.

Sooooo, recommendations? And please tell me WHY you are making the recommendation.

Thanks!

Marc

1. Kids

2. 10 pounds

3. 100 jumps/year is a max. Will probably be less.
I stated already that I am not seeking a sub-100 cross-braced canopy because I will not be staying current enough for that level of performance.

4. I'm in comparable physical condition now to what I was 11 years ago.

5. I have insurance and other resources.

With that background further elaborated, what are your thoughts?

Marc

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Questions I would ask before making a recommendation on a canopy.
1. Why were you not jumping for 11 years?
2. How much weight have you gained in 11 years?
3. Is 100 jumps/year reallistic, or just what you're hoping for?
4. What else has changed in your life now that you're 11 years older?
5. How would a serious injury affect your current life/job status?

Chris - you need to work on your reading comprehension. I did NOT say that I wanted to "start back up swooping and flying fast." I said I was looking for MORE CONSERVATIVE options than what I used to fly.

I offered relevant data about myself so that people would be able to offer relevant suggestions as to newer canopies - not so that I could be lectured. My approach to recurrency is reasonable and sound - the lectures are pointless and silly. I know very damned well what the risks are.

If you read what I actually wrote it sort of blows up the entire premise of darn near everything that you've said to me.

Marc

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Guy sounds kind of cool actually! But 11 years is a long time to be out and then when he fit the profile of wanting to start back up swooping and flying fast, ya that's his buisness???

C

Thank you - this is helpful. The Crossfire 2 is definitely a common theme! I'll see if I can find one to try out.

Marc

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I am in the same boat kind of. I am coming back after a 6 year lay off. I talked to my friend who knows me good and knew how I fly my canopy. He recommended a Crossfire 2 over a Stiletto, he has remained working in the sport. If you want to see what people can get out of a Crossfire 2 swoop wise I suggest you look it up on youtube. I think you will be rather surprised. For me I got a 119, used to fly a 107 Stiletto. I will work my way back down on rental gear.

Thank you - more useful feedback. Don't worry - I won't be going with a 2.2 wingloading. I won't be staying current enough for that sort of speed. I'll probably stay around 1.5, give or take a little based upon the flight characteristics of whatever I choose.

Marc

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Even if it is steeper in flight then a stiletto I highly recommend you try a katana before deciding on buying anything. After few test jumps on a crossfire2 139 @ 2.14WL I felt it wasn't my type of canopy and I liked the mamba better.

A visiting jumper had a katana 135 and said I could try it and fortunately I did. 2.2WL and I was able to land it without sliding on my feet in the grass in low wind which is very helpful now when landing in 3 inches of snow in zero wind conditions ~1,9WL.

I don't recommend 2,2 WL though or you will notice it gets tough to get home from a long spot even in brakes. 1,6-1,9 somewhere is where I suspect you get the most fun out of it.

I also felt the katana was responding well when using the harness, easy to pull the fronts, acceptable on rears and the openings are exciting! :P

I am knowledgeable about my skills. I am not knowledgeable about my canopy options (hence my post).

OBVIOUSLY my skills will be somewhat rusty, which is why I am inquiring about options that will be MORE CONSERVATIVE than what I used to jump. I explained all of this right off the bat.

I have communicated clearly and my questions have been reasonable. Some people have understood that and offered helpful responses (and I thank those people).

To those who have chosen to offer comments that are non-responsive to my questions, please understand that I am a Big Boy taking a conservative approach. I don't need to be second-guessed or lectured. Really.

Marc

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Really,,,? If you were knowledgeable about your skills, then you wouldn't be asking these questions....if you are that skilled then you would know what canopy to get.......if you don't know what canopy to get because you have been gone awhile,,,then guess what,,,your skills have also been away....think

Ok, that's useful, thanks. I have a line on a used Stiletto 135 and will probably give it a whirl in a couple of weeks. The first Stiletto 135 I ever jumped belonged to Roger Nelson - now there's a memory.

Marc

I want recommendations on which canopies (with the attributes I have described) I should be comparing.

The difference between "recommendations" and "comparisons" is mere semantics within the context of my question. javascript: addTag('sly')

I just want to know what modern canopies I should consider given my significant experience with the Viper 105 and the Stiletto 107 - keeping in mind that I want to be a size or two larger and more conservative.

A Stiletto 135 would be a no-brainer, but it's old technology. After all these years, there's probably SOMETHING that flies better and has better overall handling/forgiveness even in the 120 range, right? But what?

I mean, canopies vary a lot. I had a Jonathan 136 that was "ok" but it would never surf. I had a Jedei 120 that would surf ok, but not great. I had a Jedei 105 (?) that I could surf, but not shut down softly. My Stiletto 120 was good, and so was my Viper 120 (although it opened hard). My Viper 105s were both fantastic! I over-loaded my Sabre 120, and the one time I jumped a Sabre 97 was very sketchy. With the Sabre, 135 was the right size for me. With the Stiletto/Viper 107/105 was the sweet spot. Canopies vary! That's what I'm trying to get a bead on.....

Thanks,

Marc

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Gotcha. I'm not trying to lecture or anything of the sort. But the title / description is somewhat misleading. Maybe "canopy comparisons" is better?

I understand that Stilettos are now old technology, but I did make many hundreds of jumps on Stilettos and the very similar Vipers. I had great swoops and safe landings. Can you elaborate on the differences between Stilettos and more modern canopies? Also, can you name a few modern canopies that a guy who was swooping Stilettos 11-17 years ago would want to consider?

Please keep in mind - I want to be a bit more conservative because I'm not going to be as current. So 120-135 size range canopies - not sub-100 cross braced wings. Crossfire 2 has been recommended thus far. What else?

Thanks,

Marc

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Stilettos don't fly like most canopies out there these days. On the other hand, some people must still love them, as they are still in production. So that's still an option.

I am trying to determine how this response addresses my questions at all? It doesn't.

I am a former AFF-I/Tandem/Video/Rigger. My judgment was respected and paid for. I have considered my options (at a high level) and I have ruled out the sub-100 sq ft cross-braced canopies at this point (although I have jumped them). I am looking for something a size or two more conservative than what most of my last 700 jumps were made on, and I'm getting lectured for asking about these more conservative options? Really?

Does that seem sort of silly to anyone else?

Marc

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You have (basically) described skydivings most recent fatal.


Please wait a while, use something conservative for a bit, tell us you have taken a canopy course before in the same sentance your telling us that your going to be hanging full turns close to the ground after 11 years layoff,...


then after a bit you will be telling us your choice after you have seen what is out theere...

C

Take a look at Lazlo's hit at 1.5:


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9C0ym7WA8


Just my 2 cents, because I have a concern about the skill required and a 11 year couch time. And what you have described...


A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.

Ok, so that's two recommendations for the Crossfire 2. Cool. This is the sort of information I'm seeking. Crossfire 2 is definitely going on the list of canopies I will research.

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That was my first thought too. They are REALLY nice canopies. I have two, a 129 and a 149. With my weight (250ish OTD) they are different animals. Play with different wing loadings. You'll fall in love with one of them.



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What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.

A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.
						

I'll add that to my list of canopies to consider, thanks!

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What about a Crossfire 2? They are elliptical, have great openings and flare, and are a bit more exciting than a Sabre 2, they also have a relatively flat glide compared to something like a Katana.

A ship in the harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.
						

I am the one who is most knowledgeable about my skill. I don't need to hear from canopy Nazis. If someone I know and respect wishes to chime in, then I will certainly listen to them, but I have enough experience to make informed decisions. I'm not looking for a peanut gallery lecture on my currency - I'm asking for canopy options and attributes so that I can make my own Big Boy decision.


I recommend a canopy that refers you to someone more knowledgeable about your skill :) in all honesty I'm not a canopy Nazi, but I'm sure the same ^ message will be repeated soon enough :|