DeepC

After passing AFF Level 7 you are allowed to jump solo and "Self Supervise". You are only allowed to jump solo or with a coach or instructor rated person. You still need to complete five coach jumps, the 3500' hop-n-pop, a minimum of 25 jumps total, plus various ground school requirements to get the A license.

TK, I do understand the unpredictability of FL weather. I do know that the pilot and DZ would not purposely violate the FAR's. I was only asking: What should I do? What should I have done? What do I do in the future? No I am not experienced in skydiving. From my point of view with a door window seat, and looking out before jumping: I do not believe that any of the jumpers could have seen the DZ before they jumped or while they jumped. I do know that I couldn't and didn't. That's why I asked the original question. I was just trying to learn and get better and not kill myself. I am sorry things went as far as they did. I tried to explain the situation in the original post and hope people understand that the DZ did nothing wrong in flying this load. I only wanted to know if I did something wrong in jumping it. Thank-you for letting me know I could have gotten a refund, but my first concern should have been my own life. Not a few bucks. I guess I was also concerned about what people would have said if I rode the plane down. Again, I should only care about my life. Other concerns should be trivial in comparison.

I understand and respect what you're saying. As mentioned before I am a student and can in no way know what the viewpoint of an instructor is. As far as: waiting half a day bored and being treated like a piece of meat--of course no-one would like that. Unfortunately this is a common customer service problem we face at many businesses we go to every day. And no I wouldn't be a repeat customer if treated that way. I was only trying to say that there are a lot of people like my wife who only want to do it once--just to do it. For them it is like a carnival ride. They want to experience exit and freefall once in their lifetime period. They do not want the awesome responsibility of being in control of that jump and keeping themeselves alive and un-injured. I have had the great fortune to operate a small aircraft at altitude, but I never would have wanted to try to land it without proper training. Some people don't want the training--they just want the ride. I actually wish I had done a tandem first. I Chose AFF Level 1 because I wanted to deploy for myself and fly my own canopy. But I never got to enjoy the experience. I was so busy on every AFF jump making sure I accomplished my objectives and passed that I never got to experience freefall. By the time I was able to make my first solo--it was too late. I finally got to just enjoy freefall, but the newness was gone. Ultimately I kind of feel like I missed out on something that tandem would have given me.

This is not necessarily a safety topic, but I put it here because I don't want it buried under an old thread where nobody will read it. A couple of weeks ago I posted a safety question with regards to spotting (and jumping) in cloudy conditions. After many questions/answers it de-evloved into a discussion about my training and instruction. I said some derogatory things about my DZ's training program. Since then I have had a frank discussion with one of my instructors, and have received a message from TK Hayes. We are working things out and my training will continue in a better direction. For those who do not want to read a long post...first the apology, later the explanations. TK, and Z-Hills: I apologize if I said anything that you may find offensive or that may sully your reputation. I was strictly speaking about my training experience and dissatisfaction thereof not the DZ as a whole. You do have a great DZ with a lot to offer. You do have some great instructors who are experts in skydiving and have a wealth of knowledge to pass along to students. I know that all of you care about the DZ, the students, and all of the skydivers that jump there. I am sorry for what I said. Sincerely, DeepC I have figured out what the problems with my instruction were. I was responsible in part for some, and in full for others. Personality differences: Some of the instructors are a bit abbrasive by nature and seemed unnaproachable to me. I am somewhat shy and am intimidated by these personality types. I should either look to different instuctors, or simply be more assertive. Scheduling: I can only go there on weekends when you are busy--this means the instructors are going to be busy. The Gold Plan: You said in your post that you do offer the Gold Plan which offers more one on one time. I bought Silver mostly due to finances, and partly because I did not realize the difference in personal attention. I should have done more research and asked more questions. Much of the situation came down to communication. Thank-you to everyone who had input on the original post. I really appreciated all of the advice I recieved from the experienced skydivers.

As a student I rather like this approach. I don't understand why people don't like the carniaval ride aspect. I never did a tandem; I went straight into AFF. That's what I wanted to do. My wife went to my AFF 1, and has watched my videos. She decided she would like to try a tandem. She wants the experience of jumping out of a plane, without the responsibilities. She would prefer to trust an expert skydiving instructor with pulling at the right altitude, flying a proper landing pattern, and landing safely. So maybe that is a carnival ride, but what's wrong with that? The instructor gets paid to do something he loves doing. The DZ gets paid. And the student gets a great experience with the relative safety of an expert flying the rig. Everybody wins. If you have the money you can now buy: a passenger ride in a racecar, a fighter jet, and a trip into space. I think that's great--people can now experience things that we used to only be able to dream of.

You may be right about the instrumentation. I use a wrist mount Altitrack, and the documentation says certain positions will cause anomalous readings. The rest of you are right that I need to practice better tracking. I have actually been doing this on purpose because it's fun. I enjoy the feeling of speed, but this type of tracking won't help me for relative work. Please note: I have been making sure that I fly a 90 to the jump run to stay out of others airspace.

I know that when I track depending on how aggressive I am that my vertical speed is anywhere from 130 to 150. I cannot find a resource that tells me what my horizontal speed is. Does anyone know how to figure this one out?

Thank-You very much TK. I'll come talk to you next time I'm there.

Okay, sorry Doug. I shouldn't have taken so much offense. But really I was just asking about my decision to jump the clouds. People were asking about my instructors so I answered. I only named the DZ because someone asked point blank. Z-Hills really is a nice place with many facilities and a lot to offer liscenced jumpers--I was only saying I didn't like the training program. To those who told me about TK Hayes-thank-you. I will try to find him. I didn't really know how the place was managed or who was in charge. To the guy who said it was hard to believe. Believe it. I have no reason to make it up, or exaggerate. To the guy who said he couldn't beleive I aked the question about the clouds. Hey it's a legitimate question. I was told in AFF 1 don't go through clouds, and don't go if you can't spot the DZ. Then I watched a plane full of liscenced skydivers and instructors do those very two things. I'm a newbie, I found it confusing and wondered what is the right thing to do. So thank-you all for your input--at this point I think I have the answer I needed.

Yes. You're right I'm a disgruntled employee. I created a fake online persona, asked a question about skydiving in clouds, steered the conversation through GPS and all other topics with the sole purpose of slamming a DZ three days later after twenty some odd posts. Get Real!!! I asked a simple question. I answered other peoples questions. And like most conversations it grew and went it's own direction.

Skydive city Z-Hills. I was surprised; they get regular write-ups in the skydiving magazines. People actually come from all over the world to jump there and love it. It is a great place for veteran skydivers, but in my opinion the student program is a shambles. I know some of the other students there and some like it--some don't. The ones who like it don't mind completing the program on there own. I prefer a structured program with guidance. It is an inherently dangerous sport and I would prefer to be walked through my training and taught how to be safe and do it right. I'm not saying I'm a scared little whimp. I'm just saying I want to learn it right and not get any bad habits or do stupid things because I don't know any better. I read the SIM and ask the "C" and "D" people questions, but get very little instructor time.

I was in a plane with several other skydivers and a couple of instructors, but I was alone. My training program is not very good. After AFF level 1 I decided I liked it and bought the full Class A instruction package. I was given a SIM a bunch of lift tickets and a yellow card; and was told to get everything done on the card to get my license. Since then I've been on my own. I don't have a counselor, or any kind of faculty advisor. I set my own pace and hunt down instructors for help. They are usually busy and it is not always easy. They are not thrilled to help with the bookwork because they get paid for training jumps not bookwork. For my solo's I manifest myself and jump by myself and nobody knows what I'm doing but me. It's a completely disorganized and rather poor training program. My DZ is large and busy with no clear management structure.

Many of you have had some good advice, and posted some good links--Thank-You. I would just like to add a little more info about the jump. Some of you said I shouldn't have gone up if I was unsure about the cloud cover. I didn't. I live on the Gulfcoast of Florida where we have a saying: "If you don't like the weather wait five minutes..." Those of you familiar with sub-tropical weather know that isn't a joke. During the spring and summer months we experience fast radical weather changes especially in the afternoon. Many times there is no predicting it, and you never see it coming. We lose quite a few boaters every year to fast moving violent squalls. The clouds and wind were acceptable when I left the ground, and in the short fifteen minute flight to altitude they changed. I had originally planned on making another jump, but chose not to due to the cloud cover and gusty winds.

I am training for my "A" license. I am through AFF and am currently making solo jumps. On my 12th jump there was some pretty hefty cloud cover about 5500' preventing me from spotting the dropzone. Everyone in front of me exited including an instructor with a student jumped even though the dropzone was not visible, so I exited also. I did not see the dropzone until just before my deployment of 5000'. I made it back and landed safely, but I thought this was against the rules. I could not spot before exit, and I freefell through clouds. I did it because everyone including the instructors did. But should I have jumped in this case? If not would I get a refund if I rode the plane back?