LloydDobbler

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Dont also forget Matt's video, which is already up!
And I believe there was another one from Matt II as well..

And mine...yea...reaal close....been editing on it on and off, between 20.000 other project etc.

But its close to done....like Scotty said! Premiere should be reaaaal soon!

Matt Hoover's Z-Flock 5.0 video:

in HD
in SD


Matt Shroyer's Z-Flock 5.0 video


(Scotty & Jarno's to follow soon, ETA ~ 2016.)

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Have you considered getting used gear instread of ordering new gear?

Hey, look at it this way - just keep in touch with him for 100 jumps or so, then you can get a steal of a deal on a barely-used rig.

Yeah, I hear they're comfy, but a little tough to take out of the back of an Otter.

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If a jumper who bought a skydive through skyride had a problem with the DZ and wanted a refund, that jumper needs to go to skyride. The DZ doesn't have the jumper's money until SR reimburses the DZ for the gift certificate after a skydive is made. A skydive was not made, the DZ did not keep the GC, jumper needs to get $$ from skyride.

Now, getting that refund from SR would probably prove to be difficult, but the DZ can't do anything about it. All the DZ can do is refer the jumper to another dropzone that accepts skyride gift certificates if the jumper choses not to jump at the initial DZ for whatever reason; which is what the DZ did. The DZ CAN NOT give a refund on money not collected.

If she had gone to the DZ and purchased a jump from them directly, she could potentially negotiate a refund if the DZ wanted to. That said a DZ can not fix skyrides' problems, plain and simple. So focusing attention on the DZ doesn't do anything for your ends, jumpdude, it just makes noise and hurts skydiving.

Good argument. Only problem being, Skyride continually misrepresents itself as the dropzone in question. Here's an example, from the website 'laskydiving.com' (owner of record: IGOVINCENT):

At Los Angeles Skydiving you will be assigned an experienced instructor. Los Angeles Skydiving's staff is the most experienced in the Western United States.
Our staff is among the most qualified and skilled in the world! Los Angeles Skydiving staff members are all licensed professionals. No other skydiving operation in California possesses such an elite instructional staff. When you have chosen Los Angeles Skydiving, you have chosen the best. Isn't that what you want when you go skydiving?


Los Angeles Skydiving is being sold as its own dropzone, with its own professional staff. Good advertising, good SEO, a good overall site...except that Los Angeles Skydiving doesn't exist. It's an essential part of Skyride's business model - the customer is led into believing that they're talking to a dropzone, not a booking agency.

So when a first-time tandem student shows up at the DZ that accepts Skyride certificates, it's natural for them to think their beef is with the DZ. Only if they read the fine print will they see otherwise. Skyride is the one doing the initial misrepresentation, misleading the customer from moment one...so in most people's (and my) book, they're much more in the wrong in this situation than the people they misled.

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All these years people want skyride associated businesses to clean up. So when do they get a fair chance to do so?

For me? They've had their fair chance to do so. For years, as you just specified.

At a certain point, there's an element of 'fooled me once, shame on you'...but how many times do we have to be fooled before we say 'shame on me?'

Based on Skyride's protracted behavior, I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

(And yes, I associate this DZ with Skyride. If I own one company that is known publicly for its history of ripping people off, and I'm also on the Board of Directors of a local charity, don't you think the public might look at the charity with suspicion? To be completely hyperbolic, Al Capone had a few 'legit' businesses and charities, too...did that make him right?)

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What is with you people, this is DZ.com forums, not Hugs R Us. I've jumped with both these guys for years, they're both Wankers. Ian is almost a hundred and Kyle has no hair. There, that should stir it up a bit.

Glad we're back to form...

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Wow....again with more credibility and personal attacks. I saw on other threads guys clearly presenting a better argument against you with the whole RW vs. FF. You continually resort back to I HAVE MORE JUMPS and YOU DON"T KNOW SQUAT. Congrats.

K. How 'bout this -

I have LESS jumps than you do. And even I know you're talking with your head in your ass. (That's not a PA - it's just an observation).

Almost seems like you're just trying to stir the pot...but okay. I'm your huckleberry.
IIRC, you were down in SoCal, right? Tell you what - if you're still there, next time I'm down, how 'bout we meet up at the Perris tunnel and do some belly-flying? Just 2-way, from the Collegiate dive pool - nothing tough.

I'd love to see how well you do at turning points on your belly in an enclosed environment - one that forces you to not move around. I'm getting the sense it'll involve me hanging out, waiting on you to complete a turn...and lots of you bumping off the walls and reaching for grips.

Remember, I have less jumps than you do. And you're a freeflyer, so by your assertion, you should have no problem flying on your belly because you fly on all axes. Belly-flying is easy, right?

We'll be sure and get video.

---

Back to the original topic at hand...damn, guys. That was an incredible round. I'm with aphid - I find the hardest rounds to be those with the least movement. I can't imagine the mental fortitude it took to keep those grips coming in sequence, without missing a beat. Damn. That's some SERIOUS focus.

Earlier, you said (emphasis added):

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I guess he could have taken the tent and his advertising to a major sports stadium and met his sponsorship agreement there......oh, wait......no he couldn't, because they have partner protection too!!! This is NOT unprecedented.

Now, you say:

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Ok, fine. But USPA Nationals is NOT (at least in my frame of reference) a major sponsored event. It caters to a very small population with very small sponsorship opportunities. It is NOT comparable to "major" sponsored events.

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Ok, fine. That may be standard at major sponsored events. I concede that you have more experience than I and can more reliably say what is the norm. Again, we're comparing apples and oranges. The conditions for this event are different with different opportunities. The rules are different. So what?

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Yeah, you're right. I made some assumptions when you say "major" sporting event. I don't have any clue. I don't care. What I do know is USPA Nationals is NOT a "major" sporting event to anybody but the very small skydiving community. Hence my conclusions.

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Again, it is NOT a "major" sponsored event. The event has established conditions to give itself an advantage in competing for $$. Figure out how to compete or miss out on the $$. One proven way to get the "establishment" to concede is to boycott the event. All in favor?

...so wait a second. Earlier you compared USPA Nationals to other major sporting events/venues which you say have similar agreements in place. "This is NOT unprecedented."

But then Nomad calls you out on the fact that major sporting events do things differently. So you spend a long message insisting that USPA Nationals are completely different from major sporting events.

...I must be missing something.

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If I remembed correctly Mile High didn't have a set patern before this happend. Now they have a set patern depending on the way the wind is coming from.

Maybe they had a set patern depending on what side of the pee pit you were on? It was something like that.

As far as I know they still have left and right hand patterns.

Nope, still no designated L- or R-hand pattern. Most people predominately make a R-hand pattern when landing East (default landing direction, as in this video), because it allows them to set up away from the runway.

There are some mitigating circumstances at Mile-Hi that most other DZ's don't deal with, the biggest being the letter of agreement that essentially only allows a westbound jump run no matter what the winds. Because of this, sometimes one winds up in a place where they need to make a L-hand approach, other times a R-hand.

Regardless, the swooping into traffic is the more egregious error here, IMO...but the cameraperson is also at fault, because they decided to take up most of the landing area with their base leg, and crossed the center line instead of landing on the side from which their pattern originated.

Either way, this particular dead horse has been severely beaten on these forums. You can search the incidents forum for the original thread, IIRC.

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what are Seasons? I dont think we have them in Florida.

Sure you do. Three of them. Hurricane season, too fucking hot and humid to go outside season and snowbird season. And none of them are fun.

no hurricane's in Cali, but i think i am understanding...fire season is where the I15 is closed down so you cant get up to elsinore, and then, i think thats the only season, and it lasts for only a couple of days :P

Don't forget mudslide season.

And earthquake season (but that's year-round)...

Too many to count...but one fun one had to do with riding a giant stuffed dog out of an Otter. 2 other jumpers were holding onto it AFF-style, me on its back, and 8 other jumpers who dove out after us built a nice formation off of it (so we'll call it a 12-way).

And then things got interesting.

At 6k when I was supposed to roll off the back of it as everyone else tracked, one of the people holding the dog let go just as I rolled. I found myself on my back with a giant stuffed dog wrapped around my ankle. Kicked at it repeatedly to try and get it off, but it wasn't having it. My efforts did successfully open a seam on it, however, which sent a trail of white stuffing flying into the air above it. Looked kinda like I was wearing smoke.

**N.B., a stuffed dog is tough to kick off your foot at 120mph+, but a floppy, loose piece of fabric is even tougher.

After what seemed like an eternity I finally shook the damn thing off, rolled onto my belly, tracked 2 seconds and dumped. Made it back to the landing area in one piece. Too bad we couldn't say the same for the dog.

Of course, this is at the DZ where I watched a couple of friends ride a toilet from 12.5k, so I suppose it *could've* been more memorable...

Like Jenn said, your Neptune will figure it out. (But if you're paranoid, you can always go into the 'Menus' section and tell it I'm on DZ).

Like Drew said, your canopy will fly a good bit zippier. Depends on when you're coming up - this weekend it's supposed to be in the 70's. Next weekend, who knows? The weather here changes on a dime.

I think someone mentioned this, but I'll mention it again - yeah, the canopy will fly like a size or two smaller (i.e., more responsive and a bit faster), but the big difference *I* notice is in the flare. Or lack thereof. Depending on what you're flying and what it's loaded at, you might get a bit more of a swoop than you're used to...and you should be prepared to run it out. Flares just don't tend to be as powerful up here. More often than not, winds are light & variable at Mile-Hi, which contributes, too.

Talk to any of the Mile-Hi instructors and they'll let you know what to expect.

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I agree.
Others make the claim that metal rings will rip the threads from their camera. I've yet to see one in MotoX or skydiving. I've seen metal rings rip from the camera, but no damage to the camera. They're just not that strong, nor that many threads. Most adapter rings are still very cheap aluminum. Only a couple of manufacturers provide solid quality/thicker aluminum rings (Century is one of the few). Aluminum doesn't break down with weather and sunlight either.
YMMV. both can have issues.

Additionally, as noted in the recent CX-100 cage discussion, HD video cameras have become fairly inexpensive. With the CX-100 going for $388-ish and HD lenses being $100 or more (depending on how much of a picky vidiot you are...[cough][cough]babydeath[cough][hack])...well hell, it's almost to the point where it makes financial sense to not sacrifice the lens in hopes of saving the camera.

Not saying we're there yet, pricewise. But it seems like it's getting a lot more reasonable to think that way, especially when you consider the anecdotal evidence of you having never seen the threads ripped from a camera.

Okay, folks. I know we try and prevent spammy messages/solicitations/advertisements as posts...but what's with the ads-disguised-as-safety-articles lately?

Take this landing simulator thing.

On August 15, 2008 (according to the timestamp - I could've sworn it was more recent, but maybe it just stayed on the homepage for a number of months), Alexander Shyrokov posted Canopy Flight Simulation for Education.

On October 1st, 2009, Alexander Shyrokov posted Landing Pattern – Landing Approach Simulation.

Both of these articles read like a brochure advertising a single piece of software. And as noted in the article, Mr. Shyrokov is the president and founder of the company that makes the software in question.

Call me crazy, but this just seems like blatant self-promotion.

Don't get me wrong - I think the software is potentially a good thing. I just somewhat resent people being able to write up an 'article' about the wares they're selling and get it prominently displayed on the homepage.

Same goes for Spot's reviews of things like the Hypeye D Pro. Don't get me wrong - it's an EXCELLENT review. But at the same time, it seems like reviews of this sort should be relegated to the reviews section, not the homepage.

OTOH, I recognize the value of in-depth reviews (such as Spot's various reviews of the Tonfly helmets, etc). But it seems like if Dropzone.com is going to be posting reviews on a whim, the editors should consider adding some editorial guidelines as to what constitutes a review, and what constitutes blatant promotion.

If you want to keep reviews on the homepage, then making an effort to secure a broader range of reviews would be advised. When all the reviews on the homepage have a positive note, it doesn't give the sense of journalistic integrity. It feels more like 'Hey, I liked this product, and want to help promote it.'

I dunno why this is bugging me so much...perhaps because the so-called 'Safety Articles' have degenerated into a collection of product promotions.

Is anyone else seeing this?

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>Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you.

Personally? I will get less free stuff. Which I don't care too much about. Indirectly? It may impact friends of mine who compete on lower level teams - which I do care about. Hopefully it will not impact them too badly.

And this is what I'm concerned about. For instance, my team is currently in the lead of the NSL rookie class. We're headed to Deland in November to compete. Next year, we aim for USPA Nationals.

It would be really nice if we caught someone's eye and they threw a discount and maybe a packing tent in our direction. Next year, you can bet we'd want to set up that tent somewhere at Nationals. But if things keep going this way, we might not get that sponsorship perk (not that we will necessarily, but we like to think someone might notice us).

Not a huge deal...but it does affect us 'lower level' teams. If sponsors decide they won't get the exposure they need for throwing a bone to some of us newer teams, then I'd venture to say it hurts us more in the long run than it does the bigger teams. Even if it's just a few extra jumps that it allows us to make, that's huge for teams like mine that make far less than 100 team jumps per year.

Anyway, I'm with Spot on this one - packing tents, etc, should be considered part of the team's gear. Other promotional stuff, fine. Charge away. (However, on that note the marketing consultant might want to consider offering tiered levels of sponsorship, so smaller companies that don't want to shell out $2 grand can still display a wind blade or whatnot. That's simple Marketing 101 stuff.)

On another note, this whole topic illustrates the conflict of interest the USPA has caught itself up in. Is it a trade organization for DZOs, or is it an organization for skydivers? Who is the USPA representing here? It's an issue that needs to be addressed.

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lol man take it easy...this site costs money to run...stop acting like such a little girl..

OMG THERES AN AD ON MY DROPZONE.COM PAGE!!!

this is the internet and this is how things work...

Not quite.

He's a paying customer, so this is actually how things work. His choice. Have you shelled out the cash to be a premium member? Then I don't think you get it.

I work in interactive relationship marketing, and those people who are loyal enough to pay for a subscription are the ones you want to keep happy. Acquisition costs are much higher than retention costs. Subscribers are what we like to call a 'captive audience.' If Name doesn't understand this, well, that's their problem.

More importantly, invasive/intrusive ads are the ones that get a site quickly labeled as 'spammy' by its users (and drive many of them away). Any interactive media company should understand its detrimental effect on basic usability.

I personally have now installed an ad blocker, and while I'm missing seeing some of the ads from relevant advertisers, I find it works quite nicely.

Shame, really.

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*AHEM* Think about what you said there... "Responsible gun owners"
That eliminates about 5% of the population...

Are you saying that only 5% of gun owners are responsible and 95% of gun owners are not? Did I read your intent correctly?

Yeah, I was gonna say...

I would be grabbing popcorn, but I don't hang out in the Speaker's Corner (which is where this thread will likely wind up if it keeps going down this road).

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Imagine looking at the wedding photos in about 18 years time!

"Yea..I think we are behind that purple guy in the photos.."

**golf clap**

I'll be there, but I'll be splitting time between WS, belly & freeflying. Just let me know when you need someone to take out a formation, and I'll suit up.

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There have been many threads on here asking what helmet is the safest. There's interest. People think the protec provides the best protection because it has certifications. But you can't compare a tested helmet with an untested helmet. They need to be tested to the same criteria. And I am not sure if the criteria skateboarding helmets are tested to is right for skydiving.

And this is the point I keep bringing up whenever this debate comes up. I harbor no illusions that a carbon fiber 'cool' helmet is as safe as a Pro-tec...but by the same token, it's tough to confidently say that it isn't.

Simple fact is, in order to compare the two adequately, they need to be tested under the same conditions - eliminating as many variables as possible. Until someone does that, these arguments will keep on going. And I don't foresee anyone making the effort to test them anytime soon.

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I dont mean to get off topic, but some of you have 9 hours of tunnel time!? How the hell are you affording that, or do you know of discounts I do not? I am planning on doing some tunnel time this winter, but am only going to be able to do it once, for an hour, because the price is so steep. Im jealous haha

-Evo

Yeah...the 'league' and membership rates offered by some tunnels help.

Additionally, flying with other people is key. I wouldn't have 17 hours' tunnel time if not for my 4-way team. Probably about 6 hours of that is league time, and the rest is 4-way. An hour is much less expensive when split 4 ways.

A problem with freeflying is that it takes a lot of solo time to get good enough in the tunnel to fly with others & start dividing your costs. That's why the league is great - it gives you a regular excuse to go in and work individually on sit/HD/back/transitions, a well as solo belly drills to work on your precision.

On another note, I think the best way to get cheap individual time is to look for some of the tunnels at different boogies during the summer months. I know SVCO was doing that this year, selling 15-minute blocks of coached time for a great price.

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I am going back and lay down again.

Sparky

+1

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Andy Keech has several Skies Call books, back in the day no skydiver worth his salt would be without at least one of 'em on the coffee table...(God I feel old!)

And some of us still today...

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jump went great, there was about 3-4 camera's on the jump but i think we have to wait to post any sort of video since the Bronco's might want to use it. but Shannon Sharp is a cool dude and the fall rate was insane. job well done on everyone's part.

Here's a video from the crowd.
Nice work, guys!

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WOW!!!! Thanks for sharing. Anyone know people in those videos?

I beleive the entanglement with the ringsight is a poster here. His user name escapes my mind.

that's me.

can anyone get this video OFF youtube please ? I specifically asked that the video would be NOT for public viewing, only for "skydiver education".

Who is that guy posting the videos ? If it is someone from Airtec, they have in hand a "full blown" version of the video. The needed not rip the video from Skydivingmovies.

I am pretty unhappy, as I said that I would have to go punch the nose of the person who would make this video public. Now I have to find him.

Nicholas - as copyright owner of the video, you can contact Youtube and ask them to remove it for Terms of Use violation.

Annoying that someone would grab it from Skydivingmovies and use it for their own purposes without express permission.

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As tight as Richard Simmons workout suit. Yea I agree. But, his point was interesting how fall rate is based on surface area drag. Only the trip to terminal will be sped up by more wieght but being the same size will result in the same fall rate

I'm guessing this person is of a size that they've never had to wear a weight belt. His argument reminds me of all the non-skydivers who argue that all objects fall at a constant rate, so there should be no need to 'match fall rates'.

No one wants to rely on lead, but sometimes you can't get around it. My exit weight is 135. The other day I flew with a student who weighs 240 out the door. Pretty sure I couldn'tve done it without a little lead.

(As a side note, a little goes a long way. You'll be surprised.)

I'd jump on Billy Vance's offer in a heartbeat, if I were you.