matt3sa
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Posts posted by matt3sa
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Well said.... To someone that is a true canopy pilot that is very involved in the sport (like I am guessing you are), I think you're spot on. I think the overall danger only comes into play when you get a skydiver that rapidly downsizes or does not take adequate time to fully understand what each canopy that they choose to fly can do. 500 jumps on a Space is legit. You know that canopy like the back of your hand. Also, you aren't doing anything that is out of your comfort level. You continue to make the same exact straight in approaches on the Xaos. Therefore, the only major change is the decent rate of Xaos, and the need to tell it to pull out of the dive. I just think that many people in the sport don't take the time to learn one canopy at a time and make a safe/conservative gameplan. For example when I ditched my Cobalt 135 I was swooping the snot out of it. I went to a Velocity 111 and I was like a student again. I didn't even start any type of high performance approaches until I had over 100 jumps on it. Anyway, well said and I think you are correct about the more powerful flair and other beneficial flight characteristics. -
RandySwallowsI'm just considering the questions/statements made:
- "Some one in Colorado...than say some one in Maine"
- "Differences between setup altitudes...for each jumper"
- "Assuming they both are wingloaded exactly the same and make the same exact wingload change"
***I'm not an expert****
Shouldn't the question be "what if I were on X wing jumping at X dropzone or if I was on Y wing and then jumped at Y dropzone"?
One can't sit down, have a beer with a buddy and figure out what my initiation point should be. Some start their 90's at 650-750. Others would do their 270 from the top of that spectrum. Right or wrong, everyone's turn is a bit different and that is personal to them. I just think it is a grave mistake to mirror one's "Altitudes" from some one elses'. Nothing wrong with referencing them, I will agree.
Go air it out and see what your canopy does for your turn at your given DZ.
Stay safe!
I completely agree.... but I think you have the wrong idea about what I'm asking..... I'm not going to take any specifics and go try it out on a new canopy. I'm not even interested in downsizing. This is purely hypothetical. -
alabamaskydiverThat's ok, one tailbone strike on a small stone, a TI will be caught up in a law suit by the crippled tandem passenger who does his/her homework and learns that they could have stood it up, and the TI will see the light the the good lord gave us landing gear (our legs/feet) for a reason!
It pisses me off when I go to a dz and see the TI's with the asses busted out of their jump suits and the leg strap covers/padding worn away or starting to wear away. The quality of the tandem as we knew it has really gone to shit over the last few years.
Sorry but I have to say that's a pretty ridiculous claim. Two brains and four legs don't often work well together. Especially when taking people that aren't even remotely athletic or when taking an older passenger. I slide every tandem in on their asses and it's always very soft. I respect that you may have a different personal preference but to go as far as to say that it's the "wrong way" is just you being an ass. If this person that created the post implied that it was a "soft" landing then they wouldn't be suffering from the pain that they are talking about. Not to mention that it could be related to a variety of other factors including aircraft hookup/exit (depending on the type of aircraft), pre existing medical conditions, and the parachute opening. -
I posted a while back about some neck issues I had. I have a couple buldging (but not herniated discs). I've had a few hard openings in my day that likely contributed. I wouldn't necessarily say that its specifically due to tandems, but certainly doing 15 tandems in a day out of a 182 doesn't help. My last two seasons had some pretty bad flair ups where I literally couldn't move my neck. I made some lifestyle changes that helped. I cut back on alcohol consumption and noticed a huge improve.ent and started eating right. This year I haven't had any issues and I feel great. The biggest thing you can do is make sure you rest and take time off when you have pain. Continuing to jump will only make the problem worse. Dont feel like you have to jump because of people pressuring you. Chiropractors have also been greatly beneficial. -
DocPopI would be wary of using someone else's numbers when you don;t know their turn, their density altitude etc
IMO the right answer is to do a high pull and some performance enveloping.
Agreed and that's a very good point. For all intensive purposes I'm just curious. I can assure you that I would never just hit an approach based on what someone on dz.com says. I suspect though that a w/l change for the same person from a bigger to a smaller wing would yield a similar setup approach change given that they make the change at the same dz and under the same conditions? Clearly someone in Colorado for instance would have a different initiation altitude than say someone in Maine. But the difference between setup altitudes on a smaller wing for each jumper would be similar right? Assuming they both are wibgloaded exactly the same and make the exact same wingload change? -
Im deep in the toggles at 700ish. Release, surge, double fronts until about 625ish, let up on left toggle to begin 270 with right front riser. The first 180 degrees is a slow turn followed by a quick snap for the last 90..... so based on what you are saying I'm probably not talking about a significant difference. Maybe 100ish feet + or -. -
Honestly I don't get it. You're probably doing a good job swooping on the toggles but I'm sure you realize that rears are the way to go. Here's what I dont get....... I understand why you don't want to try new technique in a complex approach like a 270, however any canopy I have ever owned has always started with a straight in or 90 degree speed Inducing turn followed by a riser plane out. I literally learn the rear riser until I am stalling the canopy at the end of my swoop for fun. Then I make my setup more aggressive. I've never flown your canopy but I would recommend fully understanding the rears with a very basic approach before trying any advanced approach. Rears are awesome. Just be aware that you can't stab with rearslike you can with toggles. Learn the rears first. Then modify your approach. -
My 270's on my 96 loaded at 1.8/1.9 start at around 650-700 ft. If I increase my wing load to 2.2 what are we talking about for a new setup altitude on a 270? -
My DZO is a banker, not a skydiver. He sent one of our Sigma 370's out for a reline. I don't yet know the details of who he sent it to, but why are there no eyelets to stow the brakes? I don't like it. -
QuoteQuoteI have over 1000 Tandems from a 182. Personally, I think the best way for older people is to have them sit on your lap while you are kneeling down. Back up to the door, put your left foot out, and then have them put their left foot out(with your assistance) and then their right foot. When you leave, do a quick barrel roll towards the wing - very stable.
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Regardless of the age of the student, I like to do a variation of that exit.
I prefer to sit beside the pilot, facing aft.
The student sits between my knees for the entire airplane ride. I can easily do the entire hook-up and (side-strap) tightening with both of our butts still on the floor.
After the pilot opens the door, I glance at the spot, put my left foot on the step ... slap the student on their left knee and yell "Feet out!'
Sometimes I grab their left leg to help.
It is nice if they get both feet on the step, but the lighter the student, the less it matters.
With petite Japanese girls, I am happy if their feet just trail aft of the landing gear strut, with their calves gently resting on top of the strut.
I tap them on the forehead, tuck their arms in and launch towards the tail.
As long as I extend my arms above my head and tuck my feet back onto my butt, we go vertical for a second, then start to level off.
I have done thousands of stable exits from Cessna 172, 182, 205, 206, 207 and 210 this way.
Would love to see an outside video of this. I'm in a shitty position because the co pilot yolk isn't removed. Pilot that owns the plane refuses to remove it so its tough to get out that way with that little space . -
QuoteQuoteI've been the only TI at our 182 DZ for the last few years, so I've taken whoever walks through the door. The one area where I struggle is when trying to filter out which "old folks" really shouldn't be making a jump.
Would I be right to assume that you're turing back-to-backs all day long? The one way to know for sure is to use a mock-up, or the actual plane. If you only have one 182 (or all of the 182s are turning loads all day), they have to refuel every couple of loads, and that downtime is a chance to practice a climbout if you don't have a 'realistic' mock up.
Again, if you're busy, train someone (or a few people) how to do this, but gear up the potential student and actually go through a hook-up/climbout on the ground. If they can't manage that, they're not going to do any better after a 20+ minute plane ride, and with the wind in the door.
Another idea, if you need more room for a passenger, consider getting a seperate pass for any fun jumpers on the plane. Put them out at 9500, and you get out at 10,500, or similar. If you want to give the fun jumpers more altitude, let them out at 10.5k, then have the pilot close the door and do a couple go-arounds while you get hooked up with the plane otherwise empty. You might have to charge a couple bucks extra for this, but the customer needs to understand that $20 extra is what it takes to make it work for them.
(Don't read this to mean that you should let the fun jumpers open the door and exit with your student un hooked. Do the best hook up you can when the door is open and jumpers are exiting. However, once they are gone, you could unhook, and reposition yourself and the student, and then hook up in your preferred/easiest position)
Good suggestions. Most of them I've been doing already (practice hookups on the ground, light loads etc). Think it would be wrong to charge the DZO or Tandem student a small "eval" fee for this? -
QuoteI have over 1000 Tandems from a 182. Personally, I think the best way for older people is to have them sit on your lap while you are kneeling down. Back up to the door, put your left foot out, and then have them put their left foot out(with your assistance) and then their right foot. When you leave, do a quick barrel roll towards the wing - very stable.
divingos, that would be a barrel roll towards your left shoulder correct? -
QuoteIt has got to be tough in a 182, a rear door 206 would make it somewhat easier, but I made a list of 10 things to cover with tandem students. Of course, this is a Twin Otter dropzone, and it has little to do with 182 exits. But you can add to or modify your own 'checklist'
Tough being the only instructor as you are under the pressure of getting people up and out, but there ARE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD NOT BE JUMPING. And it's Ok to say no.
Maybe this helps you to define the criteria a little better.
I hadn't actually ever thought of asking the kind of questions you listed. Thanks for the PDF. Seems like the consensus is that 182's generally suck for Old Folks. -
I've got somewhere between 600 and 800 Tandems. I've been the only TI at our 182 DZ for the last few years, so I've taken whoever walks through the door. The one area where I struggle is when trying to filter out which "old folks" really shouldn't be making a jump. Over the last few years I've really only declined a few due to very obvious mobility reasons. The oldest person I took was a 90 year old military veteran last summer.
My experiences with "old folks" out of a 182 typically involve frustrations and difficulties with a variety of factors. Obviously the entire process is slower. Communication can be difficult with hearing problems. The hookup is typically extremely frustrating, often to the point where I have to have them sit in my lap and be extra careful not to over-tighten the lowers. The entire process during and after the hookup is generally very uncomfortable (for the older passenger) while waiting to get the door on jump run.
When exit time comes, it's hit or miss on their ability to put their feet on the step and keep them there. This creates an obvious concern for exiting. Without proper foot placement on the step and a flawless push off on exit they could easily smack a variety of parts of their fragile body on the step on the way out. Quite simply you never know how they will handle this area until the time comes. Ground examination seems to be very speculative for this part.
Typically the pre-drogue freefall is ugly as they either forget to arch or aren't strong enough to put their body in the proper position with the harness tension. Not to mention that exit methods are limited due to their mobility and likely difficulty to keep their feet on the step.
When the parachute opens (regardless of how tight I make the harness) there is an almost awkward amount of shift. I put the "laterals" a bit further to their sides instead of around to the front as a precaution without Y modded harnesses. However, this also doesn't assist in making it easier to make sure their feet are up.
Guys, sorry for the novel but looking for evaluation guidelines. The situations I've described sound pretty ugly, but I"ve done a great job keeping people safe given the difficulties I've had to deal with. I'm just trying to get a feel for when you turn an older person away from jumping out of a 182. When is it just NOT worth it? How do you accurately assess if a skydive is viable for an older person out of a 182? -
Personally if their feet are out they are going. I've got somewhere between 500 and 800 tandems and I would estimate that approximately 20 have said something along the lines of "I can't do this" or something that is a fearful response. Often they grab the door frame. However, if their feet are on the step, the last thing I'm going to do is make the pilot work harder while rubbing a 13000.00 tandem rig all over everything trying to haul a 175 to 220 person backwards into the aircraft. No thank you. As long as I can get their hands back onto their own harness they're going for a ride. I'll get the drogue out safely. 99 percent of them always thank me and do great once they are out. I've only had one person that truly didn't want to go and regretted going. I do however feel as though an Otter or larger turbine aircraft would change that for me with the additional space provided. -
QuoteI wrote this some time ago, as well, we even went so far as to put a chart on the website for older folks.
http://skydivecity.com/html/students/SkydivingWeightLimits.htm
It gives more of the ability to say 'no' in a lot of circumstances. Leo has done over 150 tandems, many with us. He is in his 70's or 80's, but his age is starting to show. We had the discussion last week that there will be a day when he has to hang this up.
Everyone needs to be evaluated individually, and there are many factors, not a single test for the capability. Someone who is really frail may not go under any circumstances, but if they only weigh 120lbs and are 5'4", then the TI can easily handle them.
Likewise a guy who is right at 220lbs, but is in good shape and tall, but then have 2 artificial knees poses a much bigger risk I think.
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This is absolutely brilliant. Everything is very clear and I fully agree with the weight guidelines you've set. I work at a Cessna dropzone and Maine, and the current owners aren't even skydivers. I'm 5'6 170 and I haul meat all day long (we have a fat state). Would you have a problem with us integrating your chart and explanations into our new website for next season? -
All my students hang on to their harness until I give them the tap on the wrists. My personal reasoning for that is that I don't want their hand anywhere near a drogue deployment. Feel free to criticize that by saying that if I was doing my job it wouldn't be an issue, but putting a GoPro on a hand adds an additional snag point for drogue deployment (in the event that they don't listen and pop their hands out right away) and furthermore it undercuts small DZ's making any money. I work at a small Cessna dropzone where we pay 60% of our Tandem fee to the pilot (who owns the plane). Selling a videos is an important part of our survival. -
Upt would know best, but my experiences were as follows....
When I started skydiving I bought a V348 and stuffed a 170 in it. I eventually had a stiletto 150, a crossfire 139, a cobalt 135, and then Velocity 120 in it (all using the same 170 d-bag). I never had any deployment issues. As I got smaller I had to reduce the length of the closing loop. If you buy something that is suited for a 190 you shouldn't have any issues downsizing to a 150. -
I've had a couple slammers on mine, but it's extremely rare. I started second guessing my pack jobs. Double checked slider positioning and made sure I rolled the tail a little extra. Haven't had one since. -
QuoteMike Hage, "The Back Pain Book" (1992 and 2005,Peachtree Publishers, Atlanta).
ISBN 13: 978-1-56145-342-9
Thank you -
QuoteHad my c5,6,7 fused in 2001 after a hard opening partially paralyzed my right arm. Took a year off then got my AFF rating. Thought about tandem but the class 3 bs didn't work out. Get it checked out by a neurosurgeon. More on the line here than tandems.
Foggy
In what way were you disqualified from a class 3 medical as a result of this? -
QuoteThere are a lot of issues that may occur between healthy and herniated discs. There are bulges, annular tears, nerve damage, sac ruptures, and much more.
I’ve had L3, 4 & 5 removed (2 surgeries on 4 & 5; 20 years apart) and lamenectomies on those vertebrae, and I had C5, 6, & 7 fused with my hip bone and titanium. I dealt with severe pain for years until I found out how really severe pain can get.
You don’t want to cut prematurely, nor do you want to wait too long.
My recommendation is to see a great neurosurgeon and get another opinion.
Thank you. I have an appointment with a neurosurgeon today. -
QuoteHi Matt,
Do you have a copy of the MRI report? What exactly does it say? A disk is leaking or it isn't. Partially???
Do yourself a big favor, & stay on the ground until you get this sorted out. Let's hear the report. PM me if you prefer.
The terminology was actually "partially herniated". I clarified that today. He explained that a herniation is ultimately a larger disc bulge. I don't have leaking fluid at the moment, but I'm in a lot of pain. I couldn't even lift my head off of my pillow this morning and I'm having severe muscle spasms. -
I'm a TI with around 800-1000 tandems. For the last couple of years I've experienced neck pain at one point during the year that set me back for a week or so. This year I'm on my second flair up with more continuous pain over the last two weeks that comes and goes. Got an MRI that revealed 2 bulged discs in the mid back area of my spine and a "partially ruptured" disc much higher up at the base of my neck. I can't get a straight answer out of the chiropractor. He assures me that no one will operate surgically until the disc is completely blown out. Health care absolutely sucks where I live and I'm not exactly sure what type of doctor I should be seeing. I'm extremely concerned that at age 29 I've got an irreparable condition that will prevent me from doing what I love for the rest of my life.
Anyone experienced issues like this in the past? How did you get through it and what was your overall recovery time? Suggestions?
Chaos VS Space
in Swooping and Canopy Control
DocPop,
I skipped the Katana but want to try one out pretty badly just because I'm curious. I new guy at our DZ is going to let me try out his Katana. I think it's a 120... which would be a pretty light w/l for me. I'm on my Velo 96 at about 1.9 as well. How would you compare the Katana to the Velo?