marcoT

Ciao Stearny , an easy answere for your question : Technique Atmonauti ! Check atmonauti.com .... in the link one of the atmo games in example : ARW2 Atmonauti RW in 2 way .... lot of fun and it's easy , ask someone know there ... enjoy Atmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM-bHrC32T8&feature=player_embedded

Nice picture showing somebody use 100% the technique Atmonauti ! Thank you for post it. Of course hi fly ! About track-pants …. See how they use (100% technique Atmonauti … check the attach) may be it was more indicate the definition atmo-pants ! No problem …. History is clear on the matter …. Watch the pictures of skydiving and base tracking before 2000 …. You will see very different positions and a complete different technique !!! REAL HUMAN FLY ATMONAUTI …. THE SPORT OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM !

I read again the word “TRACE” or “TRACING” …. Somebody affirm that is a NEW and DIFFERENT technique related to Atmonauti , because is more fast (?!?) … So when I was flying with the Porter , or when I was fly the freestyle (faster position , see the pictures) with Gigliola , I was “TRACING” and not use the just discover NEW ATMONAUTI TECHNIQUE !!! And again , when you make an head down faster without docs (as in the beautiful Chronicle 3 Nectar jumps with Mike Wail hi-speed) you do not define a new technique with another name …. You are define that “FAST HEAD DOWN” …. No something different with another technique that need other definitions !!! 100% the same technique ! Te facts and the true are very different : I can tell to who affirm this statement about “TRACE” , that for sure in 1999 when we was fly Amonauti with the airplane (with doc too) , or in the Gigliola fast positions free style , even the word "Trace" was not existing !!! ... Is another evident attempt of use the Technique Atmonauti with other names , trying someone do not recognize Atmonauti and put on it his definition ! Any way history is too clear in the matter .... And in any case , admitting that I’m wrong , the question are : - Can somebody explicate what it is ? - What the difference respect Atmonauti ( not say highest speed … we already demonstrate with facts , than the first presentation of Atmonauti was in fast Gigliola freestyle positions , fast flying with the airplane … check the pictures in the previous post-attach ) - Who create ““Trace”” and when ? - Where we can found the theory of “Trace”, and the angles explanation ? - Where we can found articles , pictures , explination made by his creator about the “Trace” ? There is somebody that can answer this question with some concrete argumentation ? To add elements in the evaluation of who read , I will tell this story : in 2004 we were at Perris with the X-team and we have made a lot of atmo flights , also in no contact with highest speed . One time , for trying different style , we did one jump of this supposed “Babylon Trace style” lead by Stefan Fardel : after the exit , here we go with a perfect fast atmo-flight with no contact … I was behind all the other guys flying on the back , I come up to Fardel and I take a double hands dock in both of his feet , flying till the break off . After the landing with all the team together , Eli and the other guys congratulate with me for the dock and I say to Stefan : “Nice Atmonauti jump this Trace” and he answered embarrassed : “Yes of course” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….. Actually is from long time that somebody try to rename Atmonauti with other definitions … (this confirm the 100% validity of the theory ! ) so than finally today , the operation of trying to use the technique hiding and ridicule Atmonauti , come in a crucial phase … In the attach , any way , you can observe what I’m talking …. And again : far from me try to convince who see a black thing also if is white …. The important are the thousands of people understand very well this evidence (not just word , as for who discredit atmonauti) ! Are very significative the private message I receive from the people who read , that I can understand , do not want expose their selves sure to be attack and isolate by the atmo-destroyer …. Mostly they thank me for my effort , and they are embarrassed to see so much derespect and so much negative attitude …. To them I say : ask you why exist from 12 years a system that allows to learn fast in a very cheap way , that is ridiculize and keep it hide at the community , by someone offering expensive 1-o-1 coaching ???!!! Remember : Atmonauti have no copyright , no trade mark , no royalties … just a system explicate and evidently offer to the community FOR FREE from year 2000 ! … You can Learn by yourself reading the texts and observing the thousands of video public from 2000 (… the aim was play in a massive dimension this great new possibilities , allows the hi-level flyers playing in the base with complex typologies of games and allows the beginners to join the flights more on the outside , learning the technique in a very safe way !!!!) …. Someone have learn the technique in the beginning , and now is trying to ridiculize or hide Atmonauti to put on it his definition …. Very unfair , and perfect to confuse the ideas of who are learning ! I repeat : ask you why they are play this unfair game . Somebody still affirm that Atmonauti is like “scientology religion” , but If I do not remember wrong , those person were asking money to people …. Here the question is the exactly reverse … Ask you in which side so is the “scientology” attitude ….. Any way this “religion” , as somebody try to relegate atmonauti , have permit a lot of amazing new possibilities , offered to the community for FREE …. I’m not sure this “religion” argumentation will have many fans. So waiting the “TRACE” documents , let’s continue the work to inform correctly the people without just words. Enjoy the huge possibilities of the technique Atmonauti !

ok , understand .. some one will never change their negative attitude !!! Really no problem ... especially in this case , because be ridiculed by someone that say with incredible sure than at 0 angle of attack there is no lift , sincerely make me happy , because put in evidence the total incompetence of who are talking so bad against atmonauti ... More than one time in the atmonauti discussions people with more aerodynamics knowledge have confirm that can exist lift also at 0 angle of attack !!!! Exist people that in front a white thing still affirm that is black .... their problem I defenelly don't care to convince this kind of people .... I'm sure the majority of who read know and understand very well what I'm saying. There is people that want to try doing something positive , and people that want just destroyed and vandalize what do not like .... I don't care to be considerate delusional by this people , sure than there is many others that thinks the reverse and appreciates our effort ... Every day there is more and more people flying atmonauti in the world ..... and this is the important !

... as more time said , the sketch are INDICATIVE, made for skydiver to understand the 2000 new atmonauti concept! This sketch that you are talking about is to make clear that the airflow goes from the head to the feet , alimenting the "human wing"... Now , any way ,it's a mistake cut this sketch and post only the bottom part ! In the upper part was indicate how a wing works , so than in the complex, this sketch say that the BODY ACT AS A WING , without go in the detail , but explicate how the wing works : - different angle of attack , - different angle of asset , - different speed ; - the diagram of the different amount of lift related to speed and angle of attack ; - the explanation of the stall …. So the arrow of the wind on the body , I repeat , are to make clear the concept than the air ( differently respect was imaginable at that time ) goes from the head to the feet (alimenting the “body wing” ) . Now is obvious , observing the up representation of the wing , than this airflow will be different in relation of the different typologies and moments of the flights. In any case , is not enough considering only the asset of the body for determinate the airflow direction , you need take in consideration the SPEED too , actually just the normal aerodinamics concept to be applyed to all the kind of wings . So that’s why was a big part on this sketch the WING explination . Actually most of the people I present Atmonauti have not complain about the diagrams , but see the criticism of someone , and open to accept the critique and the different point of view , I have decide to modify the 2 sketch adding some text and some images , with the aim of avoid different interpretation or confusion , and make it clear the original meaning . I hope than can be appreciate , and I’m very happy to receive your feed back. … try to improve … I start to paragraphs … actually is better …. Great invention !!! ... Thanks for the advise (I’m serious !)

Yes Newell , the discussion goes on but it looks you say always the same things as in the precedents posts , on the different platforms ( last one in the Atmonauti group on face book ) , so no problem , let’s talk again to inform correctly the people reading . I start posting my first post on DZ.com answering to Stefania Martinengo in 2004 , incredible current again after 7 years ! : http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1403614;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC ( post n.8 ) "Is easy to talk and say that you guys have invented everything before the others.... I just say one thing: stop to talk and show videos , pictures , articles sketch … We have set up a new technique of fly that was not existing before and we have call it “atmonauti” I mean “atmosphere navigators” ! With this technique we have do a lot of new staff never seen before ! we have document all this maneuvers in our web site with dates and references! If you want to see all these manoeuvres go to www.atmonauti.com , page Atmonauti, section Guinness. If somebody don’t think so , well no problem, but please, start to produce video or picture or whatever with dates and references. Words or dreams or philosophic definition , are not enough ! You say that “free fly” or “flock” is everything … I say free fly or flock is just what you have show and what everybody have see until now … no more , no less ! If tomorrow somebody come out with something new or different , never seen before, is right that he call like he want ! That’s the unique way to keep open the evolution ! " So after 7 years of my request to show some trace of the pioneer experimentation, still happen just a lot of words only . In my opinion is a big mistake to try to include everything in freefly , that I repeat was exactly what was shown and presented until end of the ’90 … no more , no less . This mean affirm that freefly conception (arrive later) includes head up (existing before Zipser) , include the free-style (existing before Zipser) and every other discipline and positions existing before . This mean disincentives (not encourage ) any new experimentation , because the eventual new discover will be insert by default in the “free fly (everything including)” box …. That if I don’t remember wrong is also a trade mark (?!?) …. at reverse of Atmonauti that do not have any label any registration any trade mark … just a game and a definition for everybody for free !!! As I was wrote in the skydiving magazines articles in years 2000 ! And do not forget the meaning of the term : Atmosphere Navigators …. Pretty indicate for this activity and ,why not, pretty cool too listening the thousands of people (including You) around the all world I have been teaching this, in the last 12 years . I’m very happy Free Fly today is evolve in a real “3D Space” thanks the Atmonauti concepts , but try to put Atmonauti in the corner, affirm than Atmonauti is just one angle , and freefly was any way including all this , is just ridiculous and a non sense in front of the history . It is true that this ambient have not much historic memory , I consider this a limit , I will try inform about history of happened facts , as much I can ….. To know very well history , to give the right credit , to respect people that have do something positive , to avoid confusion (specially for beginners) are the minimum conditions for hope in a possible EVOLUTION , and for to be considerate a serious sport ! (… And any way , why Newell you ware not telling me all this things , in 2004 at Perris in all the atmo organized jump I run there ? ? ? ! ! ! ) Do not forget also that the Atmonauti fly is very easy and accessible to everybody, in the game with all the friends (not only in the ground) since the beginning , without necessity of expensive 1-o-1 , learning fast to fly different angle and different speed (of course starting from the more easy angles) in front and in back , and in default know to keep and control head down (same airflow on the body than in atmo … hundred of testimony of this by younger skydivers ! …) . So how you can try to define all this with the Free Fly tm existing before ? For years , at least from 95 to 2000 , and even for many years later , when you were going to the boarding area saying “freefly” everybody was knowing exactly that you will go in vertical hi-speed freefalling with this amazing vertical new game head-down (Olav position !!!) and head-up … Even when you was going to the bording area for the traditional track jumps , you was talking about “tracking dive” , not free fly tm (everything including discipline ) … Different definitions Newell are important to define and easy identify different things . Differently from today with a lot of confusion (artificially create) and many definition come out later about the same thing . This is if we want to see the facts in real , differently mean try to force something , so will be interesting to know why . The sure is that the beginners in the sport , instead of have something clear and easy in front of them , they have a big mess than do not help the progression . Different definitions Newell are important to define and easy identify different things , and for avoid confusion ! Fair enough ? Personally it kills me the way people are predisposed to give everything structure, put things in boxes, label angles etc….  Horrible pattern seeking animals we all are! Atmo is what it is, a fun way of flying that resolves issues with burbles in order to better aid flyer interaction*** True , but actually a lot more … a part the revolutionary theory of the LIFT that you do not want to see , sorry but I have to continuous to remember : Atmonauti Fly with Airplane in 99 , Atmonauti Giglilola Freestyle in 2000 ( the first presentation of the new technique Atmonauti to the world was in freestyle with an amazing complete routine in Atmonauti with completely new manoeuvres !!! … Tandem Atmonauti , many possible games as ARW , RACE , CHALLENGE etc. ) The Atmonauti group jump was the way to transmit easy and for FREE to everybody the new REVOLUTIONARY technique , with the aim of play more and more this incredible new game ( I was not really aspect this negative evolution of the story with protagonist a lot of ex-friends) ! If you try to limit Atmonauti to only this “group basic training” , is just unfair and contribute in the atmonauti-erasing attempt …. And is a mistake that slow down this possible big evolution . So do not write your name more and more in the list of who is trying to slowdown this positive process, from which will take a huge benefit all the Skydiving communities . Do not become famous for this . About the Atmonauti Feet First the thing is very easy : was not even imaginable before so just considerate impossible ! Ridiculous pretend to define this HUGE THING 100% ATMONAUTI with the existing tracking technique ! Search other arguments if you really want discredit Atmonauti … like this is just too easy for me. About the word “FLY” , I agree than in skydiving the term is use a bit everywhere (belly fly – sit fly – free fly ) but if you talk with aeronautic engineer or professor they will tell you than technically the word can be use only if in presence of the physic phenomenous of LIFT ! If we want evolve our sport and communicate outside the true , I think that terms and definitions are important , especially if are involved already set up and recognized technical statement : in this case the Lift question ! I think true and correct the origin definition of SKYDIVING : FREE FALL (that’s the way the course Is call AFF) …. Let’s start from here so , trying to use the term Fly with his technical aeronautic vocabulary meaning. So Newell , I don’t consider very serious technically your definition of the FLY … from A to B , and that every position is FLY … Ask aeronautic engineer ! NB . About the LIFT you affirm fur sure NOT EXISTING , I just tell you than already there are many evidence of this : 1. Vertical speed reducible till around 130 Km/h (80 Miles/h) 2. Visible effect of the Lift watching the rig goin UP and FORWARD 3. Fly time arrive to 80 and more seconds from 14.000 ft ( Double than freefly ) 4. Tandem Atmonauti : double weight but same vertical speed never pass the 200 km/h (120 Miles/h) 5. Body feel very light , and is free to move easy and perform different aerial games keeping with extremely precision , the FLYING parameters. But I can tell you also , than soon will be publishable a University research conduct by Aeronautic engineer and Aeronautic Professor about the Atmonauti theory , with very hi-level software , and I can anticipate than the amount of lift is VEEEEERY significant … ! Stay tuned (…. Soon we will see who LOL for real ) and enjoy Atmo ! Marco Tiezzi THE REAL HUMAN FLY ATMONAUTI …. THE GAME OF THIRD MILLENNIUM !

This is not exact ! from 12 years I'm not using anymore the tracking technique in any phase of the flight ! The breack-off in the atmonauti flights consist in just increase the speed closing the body and reduce slowly the angle of asset (that mean increasing the angle of incidence ) before arrive at the stall ! ... easy aerodynamics concept exatelly comparable with swoop, where the hi speed of the wing , permit angle of asset very flat but still flying producing lift , because of the higerst speed . So in Atmo even in breack-off you will never go rigid with the body pushing the air as in traditional tracking. Regarding the object of the thread , my advise is adopt more and more the technique Atmonauti since the beginning ( even in AFF ... is more easy to learn respect traditional tracking) , and assure the possibilities of fast and efficient separation in a very natural way . Are many today the skydiver that using the technique Atmonauti , they affirm is defenetelly more efficient respect traditional tracking , and the post n51 of Wendy P. is very significative ! .... Enjoy the Atmonauti possibilities