Swoopdiva

Ok...but there is a tunnel in Paris, and even if you did go to Orlando, the hotel next to the tunnel is $40 a night for a room for 4, if you don't mind sharing a bed ;). You could do your hour in there in a weekend, it wouldn't take 2 weeks, and you don't need a car if you stay on I-Drive. Bummer about the visa though, I didn't realise any Europeans needed one now. I can only speak from my own experience re flights from Europe but have found flights from the uk for $440 at discount times. As I say, it's your call, tunnel will never replace skydiving, but you do seem quite negative about the tunnel per se and I don't really understand why. I hope you enjoy your skydives! :)

Ahem...the use of the inverted commas in my comment was meant to imply irony. Of course no part of any skydive is a 'waste'. But some people do take the view that you get concentrated 4way practice in the tunnel for this specific reason, especially if you're doing 2 minute slots or higher...you are actually turning the moves for more of the 60 seconds in the tunnel than you generally are in the 60 seconds after you leave the aircraft. Which is why some people take the view that 2 minutes in the tunnel gives you more 4way 'practice' than 2 skydives. Although there is no exit practice of course, which has its own issues.

Entirely your call, but the option is there for everyone if they want it. Even if you have to fly from another country to the tunnel for an hour, it still works out quite cost-effective for a team. 1 hour = $600/ 4 = $150, + flight $400 (?) = $550 for 60 jumps equivalent (some say it's actually more than 60 jumps since there's no exit or track to 'waste freefall'.) If you pay $18 for jumps at your home dz, $18 x 60 = $1,080. Or, more a realistic price, 21 Euros = $23.7 = $1,422 $550 vs $1,422. Even if your flight is more than $400 it's still a good deal. But don't forget, there is a tunnel in France which is meant to be pretty good, and much closer to you. I don't think using the economic argument is especially relevant. Maybe the tunnel is the poor man's skydiving after all? ps: So do I....We spend much more time jumping than we do in the tunnel. But I still recognise the value of the tunnel as a part of, not a threat to, our sport.

But for 4way it is considerably cheaper than skydiving...

Amen to that I am not saying tunnel is better than skydiving, just different, and equally fun, if you have an open mind... Hey, it even has its own 'culture', just like a dz...The lovely Riande Continental with its special damp walls and roaches...Walgreens for last-minute video tapes and pain-killers...earplugs that look like sweeties...the after-tunnel walk of stiffness...Karaoki in the Black Angus...ahhh...pure class

Skydiving and tunnel are different experiences, without doubt. But I do just love that tunnel. I think you get the most out of the experience if you have good coaches in there, just as in the sky. It really does enhance your freefall afterwards, too. The Airspeed Tunnelcamps are second to none and, my personal belief is that everyone should try one, because your skydiving will be transformed after just one camp.

Erm..it is actually a lot of fun. You are using the same muscles and skills as you do in freefall. You are still 'flying' on a column of air. So do I... Interesting way of looking at it. You are the organic, pesticide-free root vegetable of skydiving. I, on the other hand, am the genetically modified, Frankenstein tomato of the skies! Hee hee. But I don't think there's any need for this inverted snobbery! Although I prefer to eat organic veggies where possible...

Of course, this is your choice. My team made a choice to fly over from Europe to Fla specifcally because there is a tunnel there :) That is the reality that we see. More tunnel = better skydives. Yep...aint it great? :) I don't think anyone is denying it - personally I think it's a cause for celebration. :)

Hmmm...ok then what about mega-booties? Not strictly 'parachuting related' either. I think I must be missing your point.

Too true. Don't take some of my comments above to mean I am somehow 'down' on the tunnel. I am a 100% tunnelbunny through and through...In fact I have had the 'unfair advantage' rubbish directed at me and my team. I believe the tunnel is an awesome tool that can only do good for the sport as a whole. There should be one on every DZ! But it does provide the ability for dedicated teams and individuals to concentrate their efforts into shorter time frames and achieve specific results more quickly. This means that 'accelerated progression' for tunnelled-up teams is fully evident; prior to the tunnel, in some parts of the world it didn't matter how dedicated you were, the dreadful weather placed a depressing limit on how much airtime you could actually get. The tunnel has changed that. Tunnelphobes quite naturally see rapid progression in tunnel-users and yet somehow fail to see that it is there for all - the progression the tunnel can provide is so rapid that 'unfair' advantages slip away fairly quickly when you spend some time in there. And the tunnel is bloody good fun. On another note, is it just me or does the epithet 'Newbie' under the name DanBC seem somewhat incongruous? How come Greg Gasson got 'Maestro' under his name???? Pah. Favouritism, pure and simple. *edited due to stupidity*

Yep..at the moment....and will no doubt remain so for speed, but eventually, assuming the tunnels get the kind of interest predicted by Sky Venture, who's to say we won't see tunnels big enough to accommodate 8way (er...there already is one, isn't there? Imagine several more) and even 16-way. Imagine an arena with multiple spectator-friendly tunnels, a different 4way team in each one, kind of like Wimbledon but for tunnels? All it needs is the major backing of a smart entrepreneur and huge media exposure. You see whuffos watching skydivers in the Orlando tunnel - they're hypnotised. This could easily become a televised spectator sport. And the concept of 2 minute slots in the tunnel - irrelevant. You could do 'endurance 4way' ...ha ha...like a marathon for tunnel bunnies. How many points can ASPD do in a solid hour? May even get to the point where you start to see something like tunnel ballet - elaborate costumes and even storylines set to music? Sounds like bollox now but push the concept to its extreme...it is an amazing medium in which to work and whuffos LOVE it.

Tunnel is a great complement to freefall, but it is not actually the same - walls make a difference, particularly in specific blocks and long formations. Also the mesh affects recovery time from a poor block move. I believe used in conjunction with 'real' freefall, the tunnels will vastly improve 4way capabilities; we will start to see what the human body is really capable of in an airflow. Start to think of wee kiddies brought up in the tunnel, turning a 15 avg by age 12 or whatever (and we will see this, at least), and it seems obvious that the eventual affect on the sport will be huge. I imagine it will evolve into a separate sport in time. There will doubtless be some people happy to fly in a tunnel, but who would never consider jumping out of a plane, and, as already discussed, there are practical differences between the two. Nevertheless, the tunnel will also open up the sport of skydiving to a wider audience, once spectators begin to see what the hell it is we 'freaks' actually 'do' in the air...It makes more sense then to give skydiving a go. It's also likely that we will see teams of teenage gymnasts ripping it up in the tunnel before too long. Are these negatives? I don't know. But the sport has already changed massively due to the tunnel, and will continue to do so. Progress. I think it will certainly create an even greater divide, in terms of potential achivement, between those with cash, and those without. Tunnel means we are no longer equally restricted by the number of jumps a non fulltime (or even fulltime) team can do in a year - with enough cash, spare time can be concentrated into tunneltime and the cash-rich will progress at an accelerated rate. SD

That's great, thanks guys, happy to jump with whoever, I guess I will be mainly just hanging around looking for jumpbuddies so the more the merrier! Is there any load organising? Or can we just get on with stuff ourselves? You reckon Eloy will be busy that time of year? SD

Hi...I'm heading to AZ from the UK for a week or so and planning on jumping at Eloy for the first time around 6th/ 7th September...Any Dz.commers gonna be there and fancy doing some 4way or general RW? I don't know too many people there yet and I believe the resident 4way team will be at the World Meet... Any ideas from anyone what the weather will be like? Damn hot, I'm guessing! Thanks SD