c99acer

49 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Spangler told me that he received the flight path data and map from the SAGE blockhouse either the day after the hijacking or the following day. In speaking with Len Camp, a senior director at NORAD, he said the radar data would have been printed out, and the coordinates and time stamps plotted on the map. It would not have required a great deal of time - especially as the SAGE unit trained in this type of thing all the time. 

Appreciate the information and discussion on flight path. It still seems strange that it took so long to produce the flight path map when everyone with radar was tracking the flight as it happened. Why would the folks back at NWA headquarters be involved in picking the path? Did they have an additional tracking system?

3 hours ago, Chaucer said:

It's not odd because there was no need for them to do so. There were people far more qualified in the SAGE blockhouse at McChord who had already used the radar data to calculate an accurate flight path. 

Do you know how many hours it took these people at the SAGE blockhouse to produce the accurate flight path?

21 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

You are going to be so annoyed when the FBI declares it was McCoy and closes the case for good.

I would only be annoyed by how long it took the FBI to declare - they have proven for 52 1/4 years it will not come from them. I do not have an interest in whoever is named. I am only following the Reca storyline as it flows straighter than the FBI story and NWA's flightpath. Sadly, I trust his information more than what our government agency lets out. 

psst.... cubby. Which one of these is the "Blockhead with too wide of nose?"

3 hours ago, georger said:

People change their stories after a passage of time, because they didnt want to be involved (or get involved) at the time. It's a common syndrome. People generally avoid train wrecks or situations which could become overwhelming, and a tax on one's life. We have all  been in situations and not come forward to avoid involvement at the time. Later, when people have distance, the full story comes out. 

So, I wouldnt automatically dismiss what Cooper is saying today. It could be the truth.

In fact, I would bet others tried to avoid involvement for the same reason ... which alters the factual record. We have all been in situations like that...

He further advised that he did not observe the hijacker at any time, before, during, or after this flight ?

That is a good point about avoiding involvement when you know something is going on at the time.

But in this case, they didn't know there was a "train wreck". Nobody, but a few new of a hijacker being on the plane, so why would any passengers pay attention to one particular person?

I give more weight to comments made by witnesses when they offer them up closer to the time of this hijack event.

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

My take on the tie...

It was purchased about 1964/65, very cheap and very dirty, had two tie pin holes and significant dust in the knot area.

That essentially rules out a thrift shop..

...

I have two specific theories for the ownership,, one is Cooper and one is not Cooper. NOT A THRIFT SHOP.

How does your first sentence rule out a thrift shop? Is it the two holes, the dust, or cheap and dirty? Maybe the year?

2 hours ago, Andrade1812 said:

Not really...

How about this one? 

On 9/29/2023 at 9:24 PM, FLYJACK said:

Wrong on two points.

Norjak did not go East... there is no evidence. It went South to Red Bluff..

and

Flights do not go East...   which is irrelevant to NORJAK.

SEA to RNO not East.

Flyjack, Can you show flights that were below 12,000 feet on this map? 

On 9/29/2023 at 6:24 PM, FLYJACK said:

So, you have to prove the Air Force, Sage radar, Chase pilots, FBI, Boeing, ATC, NWA, the transcripts, the military searches and the crew are all in on a big conspiracy.  

The Reca narrative is a lie. 

The real question is why do you and the Reca crew still push this lie?

If all the groups you list were part of determining the path of Flight 305, then they should have done a better job. Even the posters here can't seem to agree on what the sketch shows or who created it. Why haven't we seen evidence of the raw radar data? Why don't we see the original data that made this zig-zag flight so definitive?  If ATC "cleared" the traffic to Reno for the crew of 305 to fly as they see fit, then why are there redactions in the radio transcripts claiming it was just other aircraft communications? Why was another commercial craft piloted by Captain Bohan flying into Portland just after 305 passed above - weren't there supposed to be no other craft on this path? 

At least Reca had a witness for his flight path and answered other questions about the hijacking. Maybe that is why some people trust his story more than the FBI records.

17 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is a made up story,,,  there is no evidence to corroborate it. None..

The money was not re-buried.. the rubber bands were too brittle.

This nonsense pollutes the case.

Have you read the book, or at least the two chapters devoted to Briggs and the money find? How can you be sure it is made up?

How many sets of rubber bands would have been wrapped around the packets over the 9 years until the find? I don't think the money bury would require the bands hold the money together. I think the bury expert could hold the mess together, while doing his task, except for the edges that broke off and were splayed around during the search. I don't recall the discovery notes reading that the bands were intact until Ingrams touched the packets. Seems they were stuck to wads of bills?

1 hour ago, FLYJACK said:

The Reca crowd was too lazy to make up something to explain TBAR so they just borrowed the Rackstraw TBAR narrative...

The Ron Carlson interview by Colbert's team uncovered the back story of the money find at Tena Bar. Ingram confirmed with his "two sticks" slip. Colbert chased the wrong rabbit. Any number of rabbits could have hung out with Dick Briggs and his party crowd. Can some analytics whiz run the probability of naturally finding a brick sized object (under the soil) somewhat outside of the DZ? What a conundrum for law enforcement and the airline!

8 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

When do you think it was buried? 

It was buried more than once. The last time was just days before the find.

2 hours ago, georger said:

My belief is the money probably arrived on TBar via an event that also buried it. Because nobody saw money at Tena Bar until the Ingram find and that did not happen because the Ingrams saw it, but because Brian and Denise were digging in the sand,

One other witness besides Tina can give answers to the money issue. Maybe not on how the packets were wrapped, but Harold Dwayne Ingram gives away what happened on the beach that day - See minute 62 of episode 1 from 2016 History Channel series. Also in the Colbert book, The Last Master Outlaw... [page 188] ..."not there, see them two little sticks right there" after young Brian began to clear his initial location for the fire. So yes, it arrived on Tena Bar via the same event (person) that also buried it and marked with two sticks! 

55 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

They were F106's, and yes, of course they did.

Does your SAGE output or recordings show FOUR interceptors? I didn't ask about the F106s.

I am talking about two of these... F102

NOT two of these... F106

There were four interceptors in the air along with the other assortment of chase aircraft.

23 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

"an obscured plane"???

You mean the obscured plane that was squawking "HIJACK! HIJACK!" on its frequency the entire way from Seattle to Reno? The obscured plane that Air Traffic Control all along the west coast were having to reroute traffic away from for three and a half hours? The obscured plane that was being computer recorded by the most advanced radar system on the planet at the time? I mean, you Reca folks do understand that the flight path the FBI were given wasn't just a guess, right? SAGE radar computers automatically recorded on database tapes the movement of any aircraft that was squawking for an emergency. It's location data was recorded every FIVE seconds. 

 

So did the SAGE radar identify the F102 interceptors?

Wasn't there another aircraft that arrived in Portland from Seattle within minutes of the hijacked plane just passing over? Some of the people here and on Shutter's site reported weather conditions based on the pilot (Johnson?) that was just minutes behind - seems like the airway wasn't very cleared! - or maybe another flightpath was clear?

by "obscured", I meant by cloud cover. No visual on the plane until sighted by the T-33 or C130 south of Portland.

3 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

At best he has Reca asking for a ride near Cle Elum which is nowhere near the flightpath.

The Reca story makes me explore a few other items.

Does anyone else question where the other set of Fighter/Interceptor aircraft were during this event? I see discussion on two F106 fighters, a T-33 trainer, a C-130 Hercules, and Himmelsbach in a helicopter. All these were following an obscured plane down to Portland. Who were the two F102 fighters following out of their base in Boise ID?

Not a pilot, but wouldn't you have an idea where you were when you landed? Why would you not be involved in the map creation process? Why no comments by the pilots until the map was presented?

On 8/22/2023 at 9:57 PM, FLYJACK said:

Reca doesn't talk like Cooper, he doesn't look like Cooper, he doesn't get the facts of the hijacking right,, there is no evidence he was Cooper.

 

Isn't Reca the only Cooper Candidate that has an eye-witness on the ground? Osiadacz seems like a pretty good lead.

You mentioned Reca doesn't sound like Cooper - can you post recordings of Cooper's voice somehow?

Do you expect a living Cooper to be more forthcoming with information? He didn't hold his secret for 35 years, because he was easy to extract information from, or interview.

I read the Laurin book first, then watched the four episodes. Give it a try, might give a different perspective to a stale case.

FLYJACK,

Looks to be the same Joan/Joni person - from the Carl Laurin book, "D.B. Cooper & Me..." he lists both names anyway, on page 307. Joan was Walt's second wife. They married Nov 3, 1960. Leaves her early 1964, Divorce Judgement Oct 2, 1964 (from my previous note). Your link to her burial site seems to be in the same cemetery (Sacred Heart Cemetery, Oscoda MI) as Walter's headstone - I just searched Reca on that website.

Married his third wife (name redacted in Koenig book, Laurin names her 'Carla' in his book) Sep 30, 1974. Permanently separated 1978

Walt gets back with Joan/Joni in 1983 or 84 in MI. They do not marry again, but she changes her last name to Reca, April 12, 1984.

Walter had many parole violations from a variety of offenses in numerous states, as I recall. The Koenig book may have the best details. It is likely he jumped one in 1967.  

All the info comes from the same source, the Reca voice recordings and Carl Laurin notes. I am guessing the Vern Jones, Joe Koenig, and Carl Laurin information should match pretty well, as they all had access to it.

13 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Found part of it,,

Reca was extradited from Wa State in 1967 stood trial and returned to Wa WITH his pregnant girlfriend...

So, when did he leave his family... between 1965 and 1967.

Also tied to your later post on the same, here is a bit more on the Walter Reca timeline. I am not the advocate, but have a few books. This is an abbreviated version from the Joe Koenig Book, "Getting the Truth..." (pp 305-339):

Oct 2, 1964    Judgement of Divorce from wife Joni in MI

Jun 22, 1965  Big Boy attempted robbery in Detroit, MI, jumps bail to northern CA.

July 1966   Walt moves to WA for better work. Wife (second/third?) and her son go with - she says she is pregnant.

Fall 1966    Same wife turns in "James" since friend calls him Walt. Arrested after police learn real name, extradited to MI

Feb 1967   Same wife, her son, and new baby boy with him in MI. Walt begins using 'Reca' around this time

1968          Wage and Labor dispute and letter writing campaign against Iron Workers Local #25, judgement against union - Walt and family move to Baton Rouge, LA

1969-70    Walt moving Northwesterly from Baton Rouge to FL to Altanta GA to other states on his way to WA

Jan 1971  Working for Vinnell Corporation. Some odd jobs and iron work at Grand Coulee Dam (tower three const?), WA. Living in Hartline, WA

1 hour ago, olemisscub said:

We have DNA data in the files going up until 2011. Reca is not among those. Nor are there any 302's reflecting interviews or tips on Reca from that time period. I'd have to see the documentation to believe this. No offense meant to you. 

Per FLYJACK's quote of Bruce's 2020 article, you would have to search for a different name. And from the 3rd Reca video by Principia, Attorney Damore stated "Mr Blank". Whatever name assigned to the sample, it wasn't "Reca". How would they know it was Reca's? As FLYJACK says, maybe Larry Carr can enlighten us?

46 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

What year was this supposed to have taken place?

I believe it was 2009.

On 8/17/2023 at 7:10 PM, olemisscub said:

of course not. May as well test my DNA. 

Joe Koenig writes the FBI did test Walter Reca's DNA. From page 41 in his book "Getting the Truth: I am D.B. Cooper" - quite an interesting communication with the FBI regarding the sample.  

8 hours ago, olemisscub said:

My assumption with regard to this discrepancy is that Tina was misremembering whose purse it was, especially since that comes from her December 1st-2nd interview. Since Schaffner herself says it was her purse and Alice doesn't mention the incident, then it's logical to assume that Tina was just misremembering when she assigned the story as happening to Alice. 

So it seems at least one of the stewardesses left their purse. Most importantly, they went back into the plane to retrieve it, even though the terrible hijacker and his briefcase bomb were still inside the plane. They didn't seem too uncomfortable around him! This tells us a lot about how he set the ladies at ease - hint into his personality, maybe? 

9 hours ago, Coopericane said:

I just watched the History Channel special. It was pretty good, though very little new ground was covered (unsurprisingly).

- Drove me mad that they used the "A" sketch throughout the entire program. I guess they didn't have the time to explain the "B" sketch? Though I would argue that's pretty important to cover.

- I had never actually heard about Dick Briggs and his eerie prediction about the Ingrams finding the money before. Seems pretty apocryphal and difficult to verify, though. Also, knowing that he was a proven liar, I would probably just lump him in with the other false confessors at this point.

See the older History Channel, 2-part series from July 2016, for more on the Igram find. Dwayne says a little too much in the interview at minute 62 of episode 1. The same information is given in Colbert's book, The Last Master Outlaw... [page 188] ... "see them two little sticks right there" after young Brian cleared his first spot for the fire. 

In addition, see the Ingram's reaction at minute 68 in the same episode 1, where Dwayne and Brian watch the Ron Carlson interview pegging the "hippie couple". Similar explanation in the book [pp 166-68]. 

This Dropzone forum was down during that period and I never saw any discussion on any of these points on the other forums. Seems like two big keys regarding the 'money plant'. 

21 hours ago, georger said:

which begs the question: what boxes trigger a viable Cooper search, given that so many people think they know who and what Cooper was!? Who's Cooper list is the right list given that there is no universal list people even agree on! Notably, finger prints and dna are missing! Even an image of the guy is missing/uncertain !! What are the correct defining features?   

I agree, we do not know what check boxes are correct. So what else can pair candidates with the high-jacker? Mannerisms of Cooper during the event? Attitudes and behaviors of the crew and main players as events unfold? I see changes in the behavior and narrative within the first 48 hours; also the 1980 Tena Bar money find.