73blazer

thousandthings

hmm...I too have read somewhere (I think citizen sleuths also stated that) that the DNA extracted from what Cooper left behind is only a partial profile, surprising considering he left behind quite a few cigarette butts. But then in those days no one knew that one day DNA profiling can also happen and poor storage of a lot of those things is probably why only partial DNA is available.

But then as technology goes even that is enough...for someone to be considered I guess that partial should be a complete match at least.

Not only was it partial, IIRC, there were several different partial profiles found.

RobertMBlevins

Yes, we did. Today, I hit the 'send' button on an email to the Seattle FBI. Attached was the final report on Kenny Christiansen in a linked PDF. After editing, it ended up at 74 pages of witness testimony (with their contact information), documents, pictures, and some general overview of the evidence. It's a fairly complex document.

I told the FBI that we would be sending along a print copy of the report in the following week, and that the print version would include Lyle Christiansen's full DNA profile. I suggested also maybe they could obtain Kenny's full print set from Army records to compare to the approximately 56 good prints they got from the hijacked aircraft.

Tell you what. Even if it turns out Kenny wasn't the guy, I'm glad I finally sent in the report. Our investigation into Ken Christiansen will be officially ended with the submission of the print version and the DNA profile.

Finally....

I'm so frickin' tired of running around checking out Kenny and everyone he ever knew that you wouldn't believe it. Now I can wrap up my new book and go back to my normal life. Kenny is the FBI's problem now. And I certainly provided them the tools to either confirm or dismiss him as the hijacker. Sure, I would like to be right. But if I'm wrong at least I'll know I gave it my best shot...and I won't be leaping off the Narrows Bridge if I'm wrong. I will just move on.
Since this report is now in the hands of the Seattle FBI, I think it would be fair for me to reveal something here. I know some of you have questioned the idea of a witness in Bernie Geestman's family who said she saw Kenny possibly creating the bomb used in the hijacking, and that she saw this shortly BEFORE the hijacking.

I also said there was a 'special item' she mentioned in her testimony, i.e. something never mentioned previously in any description about the bomb, fake or otherwise. And...that if that 'special item' can be verified by the FBI, that this would give her testimony much more credibility.

Here is what we told the Seattle FBI about that incident in the report, and it includes the item.
Then you will see what I mean:

Quote

'I received another email from Macauley. He said that shortly after the History Channel program aired that his mother had told the family a story that possibly linked Kenny Christiansen to the actual creation of the bomb that was used to hijack Flight 305. His mother says this is how it happened:

That at the time just before the Cooper hijacking, his mother was one of four siblings living with Margaret and Bernie Geestman up in Bonney Lake, WA. Bernie Geestman’s sister, Dawn Androsko, was their mother and had recently divorced, moved to Washington from Minnesota with her children, and moved in with her brother and his wife.

The mother stated she was about 13 years old at the time. She said that not long before the hijacking, she walked into a shed on the Geestmans’ property and Kenny Christiansen was inside. He was working on something, and he turned to her and said, “You’re not supposed to be in here.” So she turned and left the shed. But before she did, she says, she got a good look at what he was doing. Allegedly, she saw Kenny wrapping red electrical tape around filled paper coin tubes, the type used to store quarters.* In addition, she says he was attaching wires to the coin tubes at the same time. And that these tubes were assembled two at a time to make one longer tube.

But over the years she never associated what Kenny was doing that day with anything Cooper-related or the hijacking, until she saw the TV program on Christiansen. After the show aired, she began relating this story to her children and other family members. Macauley asked me not to publish his mother's name publicly, but said his mother would cooperate with the FBI.

(* The reference to ‘red electrical tape’ being used to wrap the coin rolls might be significant. Nothing has ever been said about this previously. If the stewardess who saw the bomb can verify that the ‘red sticks’ she saw inside Cooper’s briefcase looked as if they were tape-wrapped, this would add much credibility to the witness’ statement. Or, if this information is already somewhere in the FBI’s files on the Cooper case. We also feel it is unlikely that Cooper used road flares for the phony bomb because flares have writing on them and are easily recognizable.)'

People can say whatever they wish about this item. But there is something here that can't be denied. And that is THIS: If the witness is correct about red electrical tape being used in the creation of the bomb...and the FBI either knows about it already, or can verify it...they are going to interview not only Macauley's mother, but the other witnesses in that family. To date, I have not seen anything like this used in any description of the bomb. I have seen wires mentioned, red sticks, a battery. Our hope is that the FBI knows about the tape, or can find out by re-interviewing stewardess Florence Schaffner.

It will surely be interesting to see what the FBI response is. Interesting stuff RobertMBlevins!

Robert99

Blazer,

I though you said in your first post here that you had read the previous posts. If you did, you should have noticed that Blevins and Jo Weber were among the leaders in the very things you mention above.

You apparently missed all the fun here from a few years ago.

And you may need to set down before reading the following, but all theories are NOT created equal.

Robert99

I admit....when I saw the conversation degrading....i promptly used the scroll and page features. I'm just not a drama person. No need for drama.

RobertMBlevins

No, but that's because I haven't sent it in yet to any LEO. Copy was provided to one Northwest newspaper, a film production company, and one member of alleged accomplice Bernie Geestman's family. And a couple to friends I trust, or other AB of Seattle staff. Frankly, I have stalled on sending a copy to the Seattle FBI because although we have the DNA sample (still sealed) from Christiansen's brother, I haven't actually had the profile run from it yet. I suppose I will have to get around to paying for that next week, and then I will send the whole package in to the FBI.

I thought about sending them just the sample, but then I figured it would be good to have a copy of Lyle's profile anyway. So I will cough up the bucks next week to have it run. There's a place not far from our office that does this. I just kind of stalled that one. Thanksgiving, Christmas, Seattle Seahawks, camping, etc. You know how it goes.
As far as Robert99's comments, that is his standard view on Christiansen. But not everyone believes as he does. For example, two of the cast members of Decoded, Scott Rolle (former prosecutor who just got elected as a judge) and Buddy Levy, (Professor and multi-published author out of Washington State University in Pullman) both changed their minds about Bernie Geestman a few months after the episode aired on Christiansen. They now believe Geestman was either lying to them, or withholding information. They also found out the lies Geestman told both to THEM and to History Channel producer Marisa Kagan. At the time of filming they had no idea Geestman was doing that. Cast member Christine McKinley isn't sure, she says. All three have seen the extended report on Christiansen, but they changed their minds about Geestman before I provided that to them. On the show, all three originally voted they thought Kenny was the guy, but probably no to Geestman being a participant.

Oh...yeah. Add those three to the list of people I mentioned who got the report. No use asking to see it. They won't do that for you. They are on my friends list at Facebook and we still communicate regularly. They know the score, as the saying goes.

The only one who is qualified to make a blanket declaration regarding Kenny Christiansen is the Seattle FBI. Robert99 is firm in his opinion, and he is entitled to that. But that doesn't mean he's right, and I think some of that opinion is based on his personal feeling about me. I can tell this from some of his, and some of Georger's posts, over at the alternate site where they hang out. My response to all of that stuff is: We will see. Georger copies over half or more of the posts I make here and then proceeds to talk his usual trash. I check in once or twice a month for a laugh. I don't get angry about it anymore. I used to, but I quit, and I quit responding directly. No one much from the public sees those posts anyway. The vast majority of Cooper-related traffic on the internet is right here at Dropzone.

Fear also motivates people like Robert99 and Georger. Why? Because when you go out on a limb with so many declarations, or in the case of Georger...with posts that were often downright hateful...you also put yourself in a bad position if you are wrong. And they hope they aren't wrong, because they would have to share a crow dinner the size of a Butterball turkey. To these guys, it would be like having to swallow a golf ball. So I kind of understand where they are coming from. Georger, in particular, used to pick on our cleaning business, make tasteless comments about me personally, the place where we keep our office (two upstairs bedrooms in a condo), our Planning Committee positions for the annual Auburn Days Festival, even my cat Hobo. So...when people resort to that kind of stuff I kind of shut them out after that. Polite questions come in all the time about KC or Cooper in general via email, and mostly I try to answer them just as politely.

Cooperland exists. It just has different forms to it, and varying degrees of agenda. Depends on the person. I don't make a big secret of why I'm here. It's simple. I'm going to find out whether Kenny Christiansen was Cooper, or if he wasn't. I can handle it either way. I just want to know the truth on him, whatever it is.

Well, I know I'm new here, but I can say I'm not much of a fan of Mr. Robert99's posting style, laced with condescension at any theory that...well, doesn't fit with ... whatever it is he thinks your theory should include. That automatically puts it in the suspect category to me, when you have to present what you have to say with a tone like that.
Everyone's got opinions and theories, I've no problem with that. I can disagree with people, without getting upset.

So Mr. Blevins, have you received any feedback from the authorities to whom you have furnished your extended report on KC?

Robert99

I can personally guarantee you that NO pilot, airline pilot or otherwise, would fly such a wandering route as is presented on the map for the airliner in the Portland area. You may have to take my word for it, but pilots can fly aircraft in a straight line and the airlines do so most of the time. And they can also stay on the centerline of Victor airways.


Robert99

Your talking about normal flights. This was no normal flight.

When they fly low, at 10,000ft, they tend route via strange paths, especially when mountains are near When approaching Portland, it's clear they were going around that airport.

I don't know, it's what we have. Saying that because something was redacted doesn't change the flight path. We have nothing better to go by. Even if they were way west, they would have also had to screw up the jump time by at least 5-7 minutes or more.... for any natural means Tina bar find.

Robert99

In reference to the so-called "FBI map", Ralph Himmelsbach is reported to have said that he had NEVER seen that map until recently. Other posters have said that the individual who posted that map here was actually asking where it originated and not representing it as being anything "official".

Perhaps you have noticed some difficulties with the times and locations that are shown on that map. For instance, an airliner flying at constant ground speed does not travel 3 nautical miles in one minute and then 6 nautical miles in the very next minute.

If you have read the Seattle Air Traffic Control Center's transcripts of the radio communications between the Center and the hijacked airliner as it flew from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Air Traffic Control Center in Northern California, you may have noticed some omissions.

All information in the Seattle ATC transcripts that could be used to pinpoint the location of the airliner have been redacted.

You need to take a look at the Oakland ATC transcripts to see how aircraft communications were actually conducted in 1971.

So just exactly what is your basis for claiming that the flight path shown on the so-called "FBI map" is correct?

Blazer, the ball is back in your hands. Please provide some meaningful answers here.

Robert99

Well, lets see. They had hours to plan for it. THey had primary radar tracking, they had military radar tracking, they had chase planes. We have two pilots who knew V23 very well. We have the FBI saying "early 70's" the map was created.

This Video time index 1:51

If I didn't know any better, I'd say your implying they basically made it up recently and are covering up something else. Do you really think they didn't have a map, and spend a great deal of time immediately following the event to create a timeline and map? They reproduced the flight in order to further hammer the details of the map with most probably jump times. What good is knowing the time if they didn't have any idea where the plane was.
I know Carr was on the basis he died, and attempted to adjust his thinking of where the jump was (basically he was thinking mabey he jumped later, landing zone furthur south). But he precludes those statements with words like we think, perhaps etc.
Nope, the flight path and times are in most all probable likelihood, correct. It doesn't fit your puzzle pieces, which is ok, it doesn't fit anybodies. Yet.

RobertMBlevins

Next thing you know they are ground-searching in the Ariel area, which is also quite a distance from either the Columbia River or Tina Bar. Information on the flight's path was obtained by radar sources, chase planes, crew communications, whatever data you choose to use. NWA and the FBI, as well as the military out of Lewis/McChord had some time to prepare for all this, since the plane was on the ground at SeaTac for some time. And the brains behind a lot of this effort was NWA's Director of Flight Operations Paul Soderlind, a guy enshrined in the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. He developed things still used in aviation today and was certainly no slouch. What makes you believe you are smarter than him, and know where 305 actually was at any given time during the flight?

Which is going back to what I've said. If you believe the money ended up in Tina bar thru natural means, you have to be willing to throw away the fight path and jump time considerably. I'm just not willing to make that leap. That flight was being watched, period. The flight path data and jump time are very reasonably correct.

The locals say, how much more copper do you want?! Please buy from us. Re-open our mines.

I'd say, most likely true. I've seen some of those documentary's. Copper was damn near on the surface around there way back when. It shined and gleamed. It was a natural draw, for everyone, Indians, politicians, industrialists... It is an area rich in Copper history to say the least. I love it in the Keweenaw. I can't say I'm educated much in pre-columbian times, but in the 1800's....it was a driving force of the USA.

Ha, I just noticed I said Copper when I meant Cooper. I guess it's the Michigan in me. The UP is after all the Copper Country.

skyjack71

I feel like you are telling my story from the perspective of an observer & yet I have NO idea who you are.

It means, you've been successful. People understand. I understand. My name is Ken. Kenneth Snyder. Really, I'm a nobody.

I'm still with my gut that Tina is the key, she was contacted by Copper. But, I have 0 to back that up. Like I said originally, hard evidence is the only thing that will bring this to a close. Which brings me back to trying analyze what little hard evidence there is.

Robert99

How do you explain away the fact that the money, which was found in 1980, was buried under flood waters and sand during the 79-80 winter? How was Tina suppose to find the money?

Further, some of the FBI agents, who actually did the digging at Tina Bar following the money find, have stated that there was a "field" of money fragments there.

This indicates that the entire money bag was probably at Tina Bar at one point. And that does NOT support a deliberate plant.

Blazer, the Devil is in the details.

Robert99

Tina was supposed to get the money with in a few days, or weeks of the plant, prior to winter for sure. I think the field of money thing is debatable. They were for sure combing the area and found various other stuff, and bagging it as evidence.. but I've not seen any statements saying there was more than the 3 bundles and small chard's in the immediate area of the bundles. There was one picture in this thread somewhere that showed all these trenches and one perhaps 8x8' area really dug up.

If what you say happened, for sure they're be more than 3 in tact bundles found. 3 nearly intact bundles and the rest 98% disintegrated into bits doesn't make sense either.

It's pure conjecture for sure, all the little nuances are debatable. I'd like to see statements from the FBI where they said they found money everywhere along the shore or in that area.

RobertMBlevins

But if you don't believe the money washed down to where it was found, then how do you explain how it got there?

That's the million dollar question. I explain it by saying Cooper put it there, because he wanted Tina to have it. He didn't throw it away. He choose Tina bar as a easy point of reference for her to find it. Which also means, he notified Tina in some manner, mail, phone...who knows. The timing for this is spot on, as I recall, Tina went to the convent in late '79, which is also the most probable time the money was put there, as summer would be too risky, too many people , someone else would have found it.

BruceSmith

You don't have to sneak past your wifey, Blaze, you can simply click onto www.themountainnewswa.net. Many of my interviews with Norjak principals are there.

And you can see me in my Full Glory with Rataczak, Tina, Mitchell, Hayden, Himms, Lee Dormuth, etal. Afterwards you trade barbs with all the folks who think I'm a Bull in a China Shop, although I prefer to call myself a Prince Among Thieves....

,,,love to hear your POV on the feds. Are you a LE lover, or can you call a spade a spade?

I've read probably most of what you've had written there, lots of info. I must admit, some of it I find...well, far reaching, alot of it is really good.

On the feds, well your statement implies it's a love or hate deal, that's not really the case. FOr the most part, by in large, I would say most investigations I read about that the FBI is involved with are on the up an up, they work hard, they get the evidence, to do the people and ground work, they analyze, develop profiles. And they get they're guy most of the time, sometimes not. Is this always the case where they work diligently, no, but most of the time that has to do with outside influences of a very large nature, things like our illustrious president with his pen and his phone, "national security" things. Now, I can't speak for what it was like in the 70's. Or early 80's for that matter. I mean, to not make a simple analysis like safe did with the water flows of all the rivers and tributaries in the area..and not consider the simple facts that only 3 bundles were found, together, right at the surface.... (yes, I'm aware of the chard's theory, but I don't think anyone's come forward to say, they found chard's all over the place, for what I've found in statements the "chard's" were very near the stacks). I dunno, for me, there's only one conclusion, it was not put there thru natural means. I think the feds botched some things about the money find for sure, they had a good chance at solving the case then IMHO. Losing the butts, botching the money find is sloppy. But, you can attribute those things to just plain they didn't really care, and didn't put the proper resources in place, even in 1980. It was a 8.5year old crime then, where nobody was murdered or raped, and they just didn't care. That's not to say the agents working the case didn't care, the FBI like anyplace, has budgets and managment has to decide where to assign resources, Cooper, wasn't it. Evidence lost, after 10,20,30,40 years (IIRC the last known location of the butts was sometime in the 90's?)...it happens, yeah it's sloppy, but when it sits around in a warehouse for decades, things get moved, reorganized, labels peel off...it happens, sloppy yes, but not outright deception or a cover up, which is what I think your saying with being a "spade"

Again here, you can say it's a "victimless crime" ... but Tina .. is the key. If she truly is distressed over the whole deal, she's the victim, she can say to the FBI, I'm the victim, who cares if it's 40 years old, you guys need to take this seriously and investigate credible leads. Make a serious investigation as to how money degrades in sand and water in bags and not in bags, pay a real hydroligist $5k to make an analysis of the areas flow (although I think safe did a pretty good job of this). Mabey Flo can same the same?

RobertMBlevins

One reason is because at the time of the Cooper hijacking, there was a five-year Statute of Limitations on air piracy. That was later changed

You've pushed this one pretty hard over the years I've noticed, and I'm not saying it's not possible. I personally, don't lay much credence to it. I mean, the FBI had said many many times, they felt he died, he died, he couldn't make the jump, was inexperienced.....if you've gotten away with it for that long, why risk giving them something to possibly go off of, revive the case...if your sole point is to re-direct attention away from you by doing it. To me, it's a direct conflict, re-direct attention away from me by calling attention to me thru reviving the case.

Well, if I'm to make a trek (I guess one should call it a pilgrimage at this point) out to the Northwest, I'll definitely do that!

I'd also love to make DB Cooper day at the Ariel store & Bar, I was just watching Blevins video of the 2012 event. But, if I were to do so, just for that, I think my wife would accuse me of being...something...I'm sure

I'm just sorry I didn't know who DB Cooper was in 1999 when I had to fly to Portland every week for 3 months for work, a customer was there.

Wow...it's taken me a few months, but I finally got thru 2200+ pages of this thread and the previous. Lots of trials and tribulations and twists and turns and rabbit holes.

Anyway, I guess I don't have much to add, I'm a hard facts guy, so I guess thats to say, there's no suspect in my book. I think at this point, people's memories of 40 years past is clouded at best. That's not to discard anyone's opinions, Jo especially (after reading 2000+ pages, I fell like I know you, hope it's ok to call you Jo?).

I'm with safe, there's no possible way that money could have ended up in Tina (Tena) bar thru natural means, unless your willing to throw away the flight path completely. By my estimate, it would have had to be some 17 miles off, in the world of radar and flying airways (like V23)...1 mile would have been off, 2...would be way off, so, that's to say 8 deviations being generous there, in the world of science, if your looking at possibilities of 8 deviations away, your simply being foolish. (No, I'm not calling anyone foolish). Or, their jump time would have had to be considerably off, and being that they reproduced the flight, airstairs /pressure bump thing...I doubt they have that far off.
ANyway, IMHO, the money was moved. So, do I think he survived, perhaps. If the money was moved, who moved it. Cooper? Mabey, most likely. There are many possibilities here, but the most probable, the simplest, is Cooper moved it. It's also possible little Brian's dad found it days earlier, finally said...oh well this stuff ain't no good, but a bank isn't gonna replace it for me, unless...mabey if a kid finds it. Has anyone dug into Mr. Ingrams whereabouts in the days, weeks or months leading up to the find? See, there I go, down the rabbit hole. It's easy to do.

I guess I'm with the FBI, unless some hard evidence is to come up, bills, maybe the briefcase although I'm not sure that could be identified, the parachutes...something hard, this just isn't gonna get solved. People evidence might lead you to hard evidence, but at this point, the FBI can't put resources into rabbit holes and peoples memories for a 40 year old crime. I believe they've been burned on this with Marla. Hard evidence...tough to come by.

Where's that ticket your were once holding Jo!

My gut, even before I read the books, this thread, my gut which has served me well for years, says...Tina is the key. THere's something she knows, perhaps the FBI knows too. What happen in the 45 (by some estimates) minutes she was alone with Cooper. He wanted her to have some $$$. I think the whole money find on "Tina" bar (as the sign says, as most locals knew it at the time), yes we all know it's Tena bar, the original owner was Tena...perhaps there was a sign at some point in the 60's that said Tena...who knows...but what we do know is those rubber bands had a 1 year at most in the elements lifespan, I think Cooper planted the dough, notified Tina, and then Tina went into the convent. I feel bad for Tina, well, not bad, just a bummer this had to happen to her and by most accounts, seems to haunt her.

Anyway...hello...and good evening to you all.