wicodefly

OP here.

I've decided to go with a Skyhook. After reading this month's Parachutist's article on USPA-gathered RSL and MARD data, seeing the only data available on Skyhook vs. other MARDs (data is scant from what I can see), and just making a personal decision, I decided it's what's best for me and my skill level.

In the Parachutist article they make a strong case for having an RSL or MARD, IMHO.

Also based on USPA and DZ's incident databases I see more incidents where having an RSL or MARD could have made a big difference.

I'm planning a trip to Axis flight school to take their canopy courses and improve my overall pilot skills. I just want to learn as much as possible about piloting for safety and fun reasons.

Fascinating discussion everyone, I'm learning so much. Thank you all.

Blue skies!

billbooth

There is one major difference between the Skyhook and any other MARD system, and that is, only the Skyhook has the Collins' Lanyard.

(So what is a Colins' Lanyard, and why is this important?) Let me explain:

I didn't market the Skyhook (my third attempt at a MARD system) for 5 years after I developed it, because it had a major flaw. If the RSL riser released before the non-RSL riser, the Skyhook (or any MARD system) would pull the reserve bag right into the lines of the still attached riser. The scenario almost guarantees a main-reserve entanglement, so putting out the Skyhook before this problem was solved, was out of the question.

The Collins' Lanyard solved this problem by making it theoretically impossible for the RSL riser to release without the non-RSL riser also being released. I introduced the Collins' Lanyard first, and gave it 5 years in the marketplace, to be sure it worked we'll enough so that the Skyhook would be a successful device, as tens of thousands of installations over the past 12 years have proven it to be.

(This is a very brief explanation of the Collins' Lanyard. If you wish to understand is design and function more fully, please go to uptvector.com and click on the Skyhook tab.)

As to another point brought up in this string: At first, I designed the Skyhook with a release force (in the event of a total malfunction) of under 2 pounds. Trouble was, we experienced a very high number of premature releases from backward spinning main malfunctions (a rather common event). Since increasing this release force to about 10 lbs. (when applied quickly, as it happens in a real malfunction) the number of premature releases has dropped drastically.

It generally takes many years of field experience to determine how well any component of a reserve deployment system will work out in the real world, so any meaningful discussion as to which MARD system is "best" will have to wait for a very long time. I give you the above facts, not to discredit any other MARD system, but to explain why I designed the Skyhook as I did. It is up to you to determine if my reasoning was sound.

Wow, thank you for the reply. I really, really appreciate it. I watched your Skyhook videos and read much about it.

As I've tried to make my decision on which container to purchase (I have a used Mirage G4), I've researched containers (here on the manufacturer's websites at the DZ, etc.), asked riggers, read hundreds of incident reports and videos, and reviewed everything else I've been able to get my hands on.

I came to the conclusion that I should get one of your containers but it will take so long that I'll need something in the meantime. So then I started looking at Javelin because of Skyhook.

Afterwards, I won a coupon for a Wings and looked into Reserve Boost. I'm a really new skydiver so it's hard to discern the differences and there doesn't seem to be much info about Reserve Boost available that I can find. Very little actual data even in the USPA and other incident report databases.

But as I read through the manuals for Wings and Javelin the Skyhook system as applied to Javelin looks more simple to me. I'm no skydiving expert, but I do have an engineering background and the simplicity makes sense.

Thanks again for your input. I'm going to sleep on it, but I'm strongly leaning Javelin for now and likely a Vector in the long-run.

Maybe my thinking is totally flawed, I'm very open to expert opinions. I know it's also personal preference as very experienced riggers and folks I know have differing opinions about which rig is best.

All of them, however, have agreed that a MARD like Skyhook would be good for me (the ones that know me) at this stage in my progression.

mattjw916

I'd suggest opening the visor after clearing your airspace and collapsing your slider under canopy... the visor is definitely not optically correct.

Try it out sometime.

Good point. I did open up under canopy yesterday, it was a little cold here (in the 30's, so I closed it back up). Distortion didn't look too bad to me except at the sides. Definitely a good point.

mattjw916

Javelin Odyssey... seriously there's no debate between those two... just don't over-stuff it...

I prefer Mirages but if I wanted a rig with a Skyhook, a cozy harness, lots of color choices, and a delivery time shorter than the age of the universe, the Javelin wins...

Really, that large of a difference? Is it just build quality or what?

I see the pin protection and possibly reserve protection look better on the Javelin (to my untrained eye) and that the actual Skyhook name MARD is available. Other than that don't see other differences.

Thanks again. I'll review that thread.

Still up in the air on Wings or Javelin. All those threads seem to be very old.

If it matters to the OP at all, I jumped my new G3 this weekend (I'm the one with the giant XXL head...). It was great; I can see why everyone loves them. A little uncomfortable at first (I wasn't use to the chinstrap), but I quickly got used to it and it worked great. Visibility was awesome, closing was nice and smooth and it was warm inside the helmet on a cold day.

Weight wasn't an issue at all and it was easy to open and close and did not fog up in colder weather like my other helmet does. It was awesome.

The only thing I learned about it was to open it at landing before picking up your canopy If not it's almost impossible (at least for me) to open it after I'm carrying my canopy.

Blue skies!

skytribe

Quote

I wouldn't choose a rig solely based on the type or availability of a skyhook...

I'm of the same opinion. If you want a rig which has a MARD system then I'd get it but the benefit over a RSL is not enough to make me choose a rig because it has/has not got a MARD system.

Fair enough. It sounds like there isn't a clear-cut answer to that.

I am basically pretty much set on a Wings but for a couple of reasons am second guessing myself and thinking maybe a Javelin instead and a UPT in the long term (and keep the other one as a backup). I have a Mirage G4 at the moment, but it wasn't custom made for me and while it's a fine rig I've been more comfortable on the Wings I've jumped.

If there were any really strong pros/cons I'd love to hear them. If not Wings it is.

Thanks again for your answers. Greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the reply. I know there isn't a consensus but if you (any experienced people) had to chose between the three implementations with price not a big factor which would you want to have in a worst case scenario?

I would suggest removing your email from your post )you only have so much time to do it?. Otherwise you'll get a lot of spam.

Good luck!

BTW, I've searched all over, read all the reviews, watched the videos and have not really found good answers to these questions.

Can anyone give me any feedback on whether the two systems really work similarly? Given the same circumstances, will Wings' reserve boost have a fully inflated canopy above your head in about the same feet as Skyhook?


Does Skyhook work the same on a Javelin vs. a UPT container?

Any real world (even anecdotal) experience with his?

I guess, at the end of the day what would you trust the most? I'm trying to choose a new container.

Thanks in advance.

Safelandings

***I weighed my XXL (yes I have a big head) G3 with my ProTrack in it. It weighed 1 lb 15 ounces-ish.

It does feel heavier than that to me. But, I used my digital food scale and weighed it a bunch of times. I also compared it to my 3 lbs laptop and it is lighter.

Thanks I appreciate that. That more of the response I was looking for.

NP. I haven't jumped it yet and can't wait to (weather has been yucky here)! It's very comfortable. I jump a large in the two other helmets I have an Oxygn and a Benny. It's about the same as the Oxygn.

Hope

I weighed my XXL (yes I have a big head) G3 with my ProTrack in it. It weighed 1 lb 15 ounces-ish.

It does feel heavier than that to me. But, I used my digital food scale and weighed it a bunch of times. I also compared it to my 3 lbs laptop and it is lighter.

It's looking better and better every picture I see. Can't wait!

Thanks for the info about both, especially the escrow service.

After looking some more, I did find the article I think you were talking about from ChutingStar. This one: http://www.chutingstar.com/more/skydive/expert-advice/43-gear-price-comparison-info. Definiately some good info. I have a much better idea of what I have now.

The reason that I'm asking is that I'd like to get something a little different at some point. Now, over the winter might be a good time. I'd rather just sell the whole thing and buy something that's complete. I am also considering a new container.

If anyone wants to see pics I uploaded a bunch ti SkyDrive here:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=CD32A9391BA8BD3E!321&authkey=!AEJourYGNVvK0Gw&ithint=folder%2c.pdf

Thanks again.

chaospilot

Sent you a PM with my opinion of the rig's value.

Thanks man.

mcordell

***2400 and thats excluding the vigil. For personal reasons I wont put a price on a vigil because I will not buy one.

That seems low....

Yea, I was thinking it has to be worth at least like $50,000 - $60,000. I'd be willing to knock like $100 off for the right buyer.

gowlerk

People here would be reluctant to guess publicly. You really need to establish the price by finding out going prices of the components. You should contact a major dealer about a possible trade in, or do the research in the classifieds.

Ok, thanks for the help. I have been looking at the classified, just tough for me to compare apples to apples.

Thanks!

No one? Can you give an idea of where I could go to establish a price for it?

Thanks in advance!

As you get more experience how important is a "baggy" suit for falling more slowly? I get the aerodynamics, but in my personal experience (I am rather dense in terms of having an athletic build), once I learned a little more about fall rate control I've been fine in skin tight nylon suits and big baggie ones.

I am about to order one from my local Bev guy and want to get the right stuff too. It will probably be in between as I need to be able to put a layer or two under it to jump in our colder weather.

I love RW atm so that's what I'm focusing on.

Also how important are the inside leg grips? I haven't gotten to use them personally or had to grab other people's yet, but I've only been doing simple formations. The people that I've seen wearing them walk like cowboy/girls.

Hello,

Apologies if this is not the right place to post this. I'm not necessarily looking to sell, just establish value. I may just end up getting a second rig.

I'm *maybe* looking to sell my rig to get a different one. I was looking for some guidance on what I might be able to get for it with and w/o the Vigil II.


Here are the specs as I understand them (I have pics):


- Container: Mirage G4.1 M4 – DOM March 24, 2011 Serial 9708

Has lots of features, not sure what they all are, padded back, the elastic back

Fits many main canopy sizes, per the chart on this page, mostly 150 to 190’s. Although there are some smaller options. Reserves a little smaller (150 – 176):
http://www.miragesys.com/sizing-guide/

Rig is green and yellow. Sort of military colors.

Everything is in great shape

Features:
- Bungee Leg Strap
- RSL
- Padded back
- Really good comfortable leg pads
- Hacky handle with collapsible pilot chute.
- Fully articulated
- Metal D-ring
- Velcroless Toggles

Reserve repacked 10/9/13

Canopies:
Main is an Aerodyne Triathlon 175 that is in great shape. It’s still slippery, no patches or anything. Flies really nicely. DOM 2008 (don’t want to open it at the moment to find month, but I think it's June or August).

Reserve is a PD Optimum 176, Serial 004128 the largest possible that according to the card has no rides DOM 2/11.

Vigil II DOM 11/10 Serial 21813

Two owners. I believe it has about 300-ish jumps. I have put about 40 to 50 on it.

Lines are okay, probably need to be replaced in “a couple hundred” jumps according to rigger that gave them to me. The steering lines seemed a little bit frayed to me, but rigger and other experienced folks say they are fine.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Thanks everyone. I am repairing my Oxygyn. They are providing a replacement visor at no cost which is awesome!!

I also have a Benny and I picked up a Cookie G3 to try out too. So at least I'll have some options.

wmw999

BTW, if you decide to get rid of it, you can always give it to someone who's willing to replace the face shield. They'll love getting a new (to them) helmet so cheap

Wendy P.

Good point!

Thanks again. I am going to get a second, more modern helmet for sure. Thanks to everyone for their opinions.

The people from SkySystems (who make the helmet) contacted me today as a response to an inquiry on their website and are sending me a replacement visor at no cost. That's pretty stand-up of them.

You could try this. Go to Google.com and past this in the search box (if this is the right link):

cache:http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Form_PROProfCardapp_2010_11.pdf

Prefacing anything with "cache:" in Google will pull down the last cached version of that page, if there is one.

They really need to restart their IIS web server... I'm doing the same thing for my B card.