ChrisD

Ron

***All you do dude is to get yo yurself banned.

I am sorry you feel you have to do whatever it is your doing, but I don't have to do or prove anything to you. C

Mods... Is there a way we can tag this guy so new people will not listen to his dangerous 'advice'?

If you want to take the time to comment on any supposed dangerous advice you have the means and ample opportunity to do so. I doubt that you will be able to support your last comment. Your attempts to enforce your personal views by stifling and controlling free speech have not gone unnoticed. As I view your constant attacks upon the USPA seems to be your major theme it is no wonder that when someone comes along and asks you to support your criticisms with some sort of constructive activism it is no wonder you resort to a personal attack to enforce your opinions.

We have the medical requirement for a reason. Because it was and is needed. Until something better comes along and those individuals with a better idea, one that can be implemented, you have to live with the fact that the USPA doesn't see the world as you do. And as I see it the USPA is a mouthpiece for the manufacturers because just as in this example of the medical requirement, they have a vested interest in the future of skydiving, quite frankly I have a real concern that you are not interested in the future of skydiving?
C

Ron

***As far as I am aware, there are NO data indicating that possessing (or not possessing) a FAA 3rd class medical is correlated in any way with aviation related accidents.

The major beneficiaries of the FAA's medical requirements appear to be the AMEs.

Correct, since the LSA category there has been ZERO accidents related to a medical issue.

You might want to take the time to point out that medical related incidents across all categories over a long period of time are low, comparatively. Not having a medical exam is in fact correlated with aviation incidents and has been since the 20s'. That's why we have it.
C

airtwardo

I've read through the whole thread and the nagging question in my mind is WHY?

What would motivate someone to continually talk the talk, without having ever having walked the walk!?

In an arena where death & injury are very real possibilities - I just don't understand someone holding themselves up as an expert when the credentials are no where near that...it amazes me and not in a good way.




Yes Chris...this sport DOES have cliques - it has since I started, and whining about it usually means one is not 'in' the clique they want to be...well, earn it.

If the experts weren't in a class of their own, everybody would get a Superbowl ring...sorry, doesn't work that way - ya gotta put in the work first.

There are a select group of people on here I consider the 'go-to' experts when I have a question that needs clarification...Ron, Dave, Mark, DSE, Bill, Sparky are a few that come to mind - there are a handful of others...

I know their qualifications and experience... But I've been doing this almost 4 decades, I can separate the chickenshit from the bubblegum ~ a n00b probably isn't so well attuned and may take bad advice from a so called expert not knowing any better...that's what amazes me, why someone who seems relatively intelligent wouldn't understand the consequences.

PLEASE - Don't do that.

I have faith that our newbie population are a highly motivated bunch of intelligent individuals that can in fact think for themselves. They enjoy the free flow of information. The "message" is what is important , and they are capable of deciding for themselves.

On the other hand many wish to support their perceived status, their ego, at all costs, the messenger at the expense of free speech is what is most important. Anyone here can clearly see we aren't talking about any particular subject other than stifling a voice. Any voice that speaks out for free speech that is.

The incident reports over the last 50 years support the overwhelming conclusion that the more experienced jumpers are the ones that need protection, it seems the messengers are the ones we have to worry about.

Again If you want to back up thru recent history here and challenge the many times I have cut and pasted from the SIM or IRM, and some of the individuals you have quoted in the past feel free to correct anything I have said, but it's not about the content is it? And or your message isn't directed at the tens of thousands of shitty posts that hundreds have enjoyed reading and have taken the time to help and improve upon what others have said. You take your "select" group of people, who most of the time can't be bothered to personally answer newbie type questions cause your all too busy spending time coming back with off the wall one lines and inside jokes and spend some time looking in the mirror and then you can see for yourself where your motivations lie.

C

I sent them an email requesting access at the student rate of 25 bucks, that AIAA group that is. It looks like anyone who is a "student" can join. I wonder if some of our first jump students qualify? Many times if there is enough interest those organizations will accept their outside volunteer organizations requests for free, all it takes is just a little effort and a promise that you don't post it on the internet. Sharing is generally ok but they try to make their money by selling to those that can afford it like UPT and other places with deep pockets. The math is something that when I read much of this I am glad I decided long ago that that was too much work. But it does have it's place in understanding much about how things work. I found it fascinating That Lingard is working on supersonic canopies for what is left of NASA. Thanks for your request!
C

I have attached a sample of just one example of what I used to do. If that helps.

Don't take offense, it isn't directed at anyone here and it was a starting point for communications research....

Why?

Because anything new is painful and frequently misunderstood. But in the long run everyone, including me learns something. I mean , otherwise what's the point? Everyone keeps going round and round in the same rut, we all are learning something at this point?

C

(I know this is on dating, but it applies to any online endeavor.)

All you do dude is to get yo yurself banned.

I am sorry you feel you have to do whatever it is your doing, but I don't have to do or prove anything to you. C

While I'm on a roll, if anyone is near Ohio, you might like the following reference for future use:

Dave Gold

I realize you didn't ask for this so I hope I don't appear too "whatever" but I just wanted to put this out there before I forget.

C

Here is another link that I don't know if you guys want or not, but rather than being silent here it is: D.J. Cockrell

Another resource: AIAA

The problem is since I retired, many of these sites I can't get into as an alumni. But that does mean perhaps some young buck in college can get to these sites via their student academic status.

I don't want to be perceived here as a know it all, just sharing some experience, but many of these papers can be found by just asking the authors for them. It can be a real pain once they make it to some of the association sites.

C

Hope this helps? Let me know.

Here is a link if you don't have this already:

http://www.aerodecelerator.org/PDF/Lingard.pdf

C

Or you could try e-mailing him here: Steve Lingard

Thanks man!
C

Jim, I do appreciate your efforts, I really do.

But what your proposing is having forum where only the 6 people you have mentioned speak? You are free to start your own site, the six of you if you feel that is important enough to you???

Again, if ever anyone says something wrong or needs improvement this is the benefit, if the people take the time, to correct others.

I guess it's all about how you do this?

If you want to go thru a pile of posts and find something I have said incorrectly, you are free to do that and I welcome any corrections that you may find. But I too go to the experts to clarify and as a source of information. Including you!

I think many should understand the consequences, and their are many here should heed that advice as well.

Thank you for your time and effort, now ask me if I have gotten the message and how will you know? C

ufk22

****** "You are a small child, without a degree or any experience, so what you have to say isn't worth listening to."

From the guide:

The consequences of a negligent or wrongful certification, which would permit an unqualified person to take the controls of an aircraft, can be serious for the public, for the Government, and for the Examiner. If the examination is cursory and the Examiner fails to find a disqualifying defect that should have been discovered in the course of a thorough and careful examination, a safety hazard may be created and the Examiner may bear the responsibility for the results of such action.
Of equal concern is the situation in which an Examiner deliberately fails to report a disqualifying condition either observed in the course of the examination or otherwise known to exist. In this situation, both the applicant and the Examiner in completing the application and medical report form may be found to have committed a violation of Federal criminal law

Alcoholism and DUI's are required to be reported. I am truly sorry that a few feel that they can endanger skydiving by continuing to support loopholes and irresponsible conduct.

I am getting a lot of heat from a few individuals for speaking my mind, too you,...


Deal with it. Because this is why this forum exists.

I'm sorry that a few have resorted to flooding my other e-mail with spam and crap mail. To those that want to continue to have me act as a voice in bringing up difficult subjects and bear the wrath of a few, please use the PM feature here. But understand that skydiving is a small community with very vocal individuals that have no problem throwing you under the bus. I can not always guarantee your anonymity.you didn't recognize that this is a quote pulled from one of your wandering posts???
And no matter what, you still have done only one tandem and have lied many times about your "skydiving career. You are not qualified to comment on most things on this board

If you want to prove I have lied to anyone, please justify your assumption with some real facts. I sleep well tonight because I haven't mislead anyone here. Other than much intentional tone and some outrageous sarcasm that I world hope is clearly visible.

You on the other hand would be worthy of the William Randolph Hurst award.
Your link that yo have posted is taken out of context and your reinforcing the fact that this public forum is a hostile place and your private domain. You have done nothing to help anyone. A small cadre of users continually drive off large numbers of well meaning individuals that use Dropzone.com for education and to have fun. I hope your proud of your self for actually spreading lies and innuendo. I would say something like I hope your man enough when your proved wrong, but in reality I expect little from you.

C

normiss

He's sad that people don't take him seriously here.

Due to a singular tandem.

Dude, you are free to think what you will, But I have more than one tandem.

C

It really doesn't matter does it?

No one is interested in the message as much as roasting the victim. What wee are running into here is the fact that there is a stereotype that most skydivers are more educated. But what has happened over the last few years is that because of economic pressures and the solution was and continues to be Tandems to bail out underperforming Drop zones, the people that work, if you can call it work, don't have a lot going on in their lives. I am not saying that they are anything this or that I'm just stating a fact that Many, not all have little going for them in their lives. Making a living by giving tandem rides is all they have and when you confront some of their biases they actually don't understand some of the more complexities of skydiving and they just react. The reactions I am getting are not unexpected. There are many examples of this throughout history and in many human endeavors, it's kind of sad actually and I feel for many of these individuals that believe they have "outted" me or some of the other ignorant phrases that they are using at the moment.

I can and at some point have pointed out that because of the promise of Dropzone.com many are not utilizing this forum to report anonymously some of the issues that plague skydiving. You can easily see that in our small community the witch hunt that ensues to enforce a common opinion, and this collective opinion doesn't support fun jumpers!

But fun jumpers are the life blood of this sport.

I want to point out to the many naysayers that it has not gone unnoticed that the argument of protecting newbies from "bad" information is once again being used, but if anyone wanted to amass some of the comments from the many supposed "EXPERT" s here, you will find thousands of examples of some really shitty advice. So this really begs the question about really defining what we mean who is and who isn't qualified to give advice.

To those of you that know me personally, I can imagine the embarrassment of coming to my support at the moment, rest assured as we have spoken about many times I really don't give a shit about the messenger as opposed to the message, the increased coverage of many of these hard to understand topics is most welcome.

Additionally I first viewed some of the efforts to drag me down as humorous, but at this point I only have compassion for them. And for the poor slob that many think is my solo tandem.

Students especially have been victimized by regional politics and the business aspect of skydiving. The tandem subsidy issue has created a climate where students are not viewed with much other than as additional source of income and treated like cattle. And the many individuals that don't support their local established drop zone by participating in multiple outside tandem areas like skyride are actually devastating long established drop zones.

I have serious issues with, a really nice person, like Tom when he undercuts long standing drop zones by starting up his own businesses within a local area for the sole purpose of hurting the established dz's that need the money to stay afloat and then showing up here and at the USPA. This is happening all across the country and their presence here is huge. Their sole objective is to create derision and confusion so that they may in fact operate outside of the USPA and governmental control. This is and will devastate the smaller drop zone. This is just one controversial subject where I need the anonymity to fight this trend! Many of you are unaware of the individuals here on DZ.com that you purportedly think of as authoritative in fact have very biased agendas!

I have serious issues with the many private individuals that sell gear undercutting those that have brick and mortar stores and a much higher overhead. They continue to act in the best interest of themselves as compared with assisting newbies with gear purchases. In other words they advance their own agenda to an audience that is least able to make gear decisions, but are the biggest market. If I had my way newbies wouldn't be able to purchase gear, because of the fact that they just are the least qualified to make these important decisions. But when this point is raised the many gear sellers all point out it's a free country and each and everyone for themselves. If your a student reading this then be warned that because of this issue some individuals here have an agenda and they could give a rats ass if you make a good decision or not!

The USPA is a member driven organization but when the vast majority here refuse to participate because of their agendas then our organization is subject to the voice of economics only because most don't give a shit what happens anyways. This has resulted in a really dismal public showing of what the USPA is really all about. There has been a dearth of appearances at the many AOPA airport open houses, the EAA doesn't bother with us at all anymore, the USPA hasn't had anyone at the many, many public events that promote general aviation across the globe. Demos to promote skydiving and local parades are at an all time low, participation at the many FAA public forums is non-existent as well as no lobbying, or perhaps better said almost no lobbying in Washington, etc, etc.

And a whole host of other controversial issues that because of alliances that are not going to get discussed here....

ufk22

He has 1 tandem.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4575876;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

So what is your point?

Are you speaking about currency, I recognize the drop zone as Pepperell, they are open every day of the week, their tandem instructors are some of the most experienced in the business as well as some of the longest in the sport.

C

And a note to the mods, please leave ufk22's post here, If I have any say in the matter that is,....

maxroper

Hey everyone!

I am about to purchase a new Voodoo Curv and there is no reviews on it yet here and so I just wanted to see if anyone has one and what they think of it.

I have 60 jumps so I am a beginner and it will be my first full rig. :)

Thanks in advance!

~Max

Congratulations, many here including me are going to be envious of your purchase!

Personally I might have tried on a few rigs so that you can actually experience all that the various manufacturers have to offer. Forgive me if you have already done this, I just am a little fuzzy about that point from the information you have provided, and that would be my recommendation if it's not too late. There are some differences in body types and some containers and this subject from reading multiple descriptions in the past seems to be a personal preference for many. I don't use a Curve at the moment but for me it was very comfortable and I did try a few on when I had the opportunity.

C

I do want to mention that many have their favorite brands and sometimes the reviews in the review section are from the manufacturers themselves, but given time many here are more than willing to help in any way they can. I suggest if you have a more specific question about particular features feel free to ask about them as well.

Another concern is that many containers are new to the market and for most it is difficult to purchase two or more rigs. This means that it is difficult to make comparisons about equipment. And unlike Car and Driver or Consumer reports getting an unbiased comparison is difficult, just be aware of this....

ufk22

"You are a small child, without a degree or any experience, so what you have to say isn't worth listening to."

From the guide:

The consequences of a negligent or wrongful certification, which would permit an unqualified person to take the controls of an aircraft, can be serious for the public, for the Government, and for the Examiner. If the examination is cursory and the Examiner fails to find a disqualifying defect that should have been discovered in the course of a thorough and careful examination, a safety hazard may be created and the Examiner may bear the responsibility for the results of such action.
Of equal concern is the situation in which an Examiner deliberately fails to report a disqualifying condition either observed in the course of the examination or otherwise known to exist. In this situation, both the applicant and the Examiner in completing the application and medical report form may be found to have committed a violation of Federal criminal law

Alcoholism and DUI's are required to be reported. I am truly sorry that a few feel that they can endanger skydiving by continuing to support loopholes and irresponsible conduct.

I am getting a lot of heat from a few individuals for speaking my mind, too you,...


Deal with it. Because this is why this forum exists.

I'm sorry that a few have resorted to flooding my other e-mail with spam and crap mail. To those that want to continue to have me act as a voice in bringing up difficult subjects and bear the wrath of a few, please use the PM feature here. But understand that skydiving is a small community with very vocal individuals that have no problem throwing you under the bus. I can not always guarantee your anonymity.

WHY?

C

Who or what gives you the right to demand anything? I'm detecting a little tone? Forgive me if I'm wrong?

But why is that so important to you?

normiss

My demo ramp checks by the FAA, when doing tandems at the events, is ALWAYS: "Your medical too please."

At least they "ask."

On a personal note perhaps some one could enlighten me about the USPA. I have always thought that the USPA is us? Get enough "votes" and the organization moves in this direction or that direction. And ya there is going to be a minority that isn't happy, it's kind of the nature of a democratic organization.

I personally like the idea of the USPA doing what it has to too protect skydiving, but when some just toss out suggestions about how to make this or that better, my first reaction is how are we going to pay for this? How could we implement it? I mean from an outsiders position I see lots of really great suggestions, but I'm not seeing how to make these suggestions happen.

We have, good or bad, the Third class medical requirement, it is easy to implement because the onus and responsibility is upon those who need it. It really doesn't cost the USPA anything. But what is going to be the cost for the reduced requirement idea? Who is going to implement this? Yes I know this point of view frequently leads to the "self declaration" similar to the a-d declaration that exists, but I can't see this happening with tandems.

If someone has a public relations campaign that they want to start to support some changes, and it makes sense for everyone, then put it on the table?

Other than that, and I hope no one takes offence but acceptance of what we have doesn't seem so bad?

C

Thanks for the heads up Will.


I hadn't noticed.

This: "your posting style"

"But at the moment the consensus seems to be that you don't know enough to be posting the way you are."

So, again, If I have said something, anywhere here about something technical or some improper behavior, then please take the time to correct me. In the thread where I have done this, where it would be more relevant and so no one would have to jump around. So that everyone can fully understand all of the issues and complexities of giving advice on a public forum where my intentional agenda is to get people to think for themselves.

Other than that I thank you for illustrating something that I have been trying to do for quite some time. You are one brave dude man! For taking the time to point out how tone and attitude can interfere with a message. You are also the first to attempt to say something like, and excuse me a bit if I put some words into your mouth, Can yo please try this or that when speaking to others so that people don't react to you as much as the content of what you have to say.

The other points you have mentioned have been coved ad nausea-atium elsewhere.

I try very hard to point out the audience when I get on my high horse. I always use different examples or make it clear when speaking with newbies as compared with chastising swoop'rs with mad skillz, does everyone do this? That's rhetorical, cause we all know this is a common concern that frequently gets lost in the shuffle....

As far as being called out, ya I'm surprised it has taken this long as well, being a dick to illustrate this point at my expense is a lot of work.

And for the time being I'm going to go back to my old standby and ask WHY?

C

Thank you for your well thought out reply.

I'm going to pull out some thoughts to illustrate what I'm trying to point out: ( on the "Hiding" subject.)

"I'd listen to Booth over some Whuffo."

"but a persons experience should be a factor in if you listen to them or not"

"Everyone can have an opinion, but only people with qualifications to back the opinion up should be paid attention to."

I get where your coming from, it's not the same as what is taking place here, and if you bear with me I hope you can see some of this.

In each of your quotes above, You, Ron are making the choice. You said this: "...I'd Listen..." You in the first person, with your accumulated knowledge have made a choice. What happens when you leave out the words: Booth and Whuffo? Substitute x and y in your example, you don't have a clue who is who, now how do you make your choice?

And yes a persons "experience" should be a factor, but who is doing the listening? You are! You are making the choice whether "if you listen to them or not" in this example you need a certain amount of knowledge to make your example work. Otherwise if you don't have the prior knowledge you can't tell what is good advice from bad advice. Or who is who, take away the prior knowledge and your right back to having to decide for yourself. And how do you decide?


And the third: "Everyone can have an opinion, but only people with qualifications to back the opinion up should be paid attention to." Ron,... who decides who is and isn't qualified? You have given examples of some well known individuals and I understand your reasoning, and I am with ya, but your the one deciding who you listen to and who you don't listen to.

Ron, try to take out all of the references and put yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn't a clue and then how do you make your decisions from their perspective? They are the ones that matter. Do you stop and ask them here on this forum if they are getting your message?

This is a shift in thinking. It is hard and requires effort to actually understand if someone else gets it. It is easy to just sit back and make funny comments about things we don't understand. I want you to take special notice of the number of times other people make a comment about how someone else appears to be an "expert" and then their conduct is one of belittlement and ridicule. No one has undertaken the time to ask for clarifications nor made any statements about things like your stance is a little too arrogant too me and you appear to be an expert, but I don't understand the points your trying to make? Just what does it mean to act like an expert? What does it mean to be a know it all? If someone appears to be an arrogant prick and you don't like their tone, well help them along, tell them, cause the answer back might be something like "your the one with the problem?" Is how we perceive others the issue?

Dropzone.com works because if someone is in a hurry, or has a lapse of memory, or doesn't give a complete answer another expert can jump in and help out! It falls apart when so many turn it into their private club and pick favorites at the expense of others. I count on this, I think you do as welll, as most do.

No one is hiding here, but there are plenty of individuals that are not taking the time to fully explain themselves nor is anyone taking the time to present their point of view by presenting both sides of their arguments. Everyone here is an expert! No one is taking the time or making the effort to fully explain themselves. And understandably many are chastised for the amount of effort they do extend. I have seen hundreds of posts judged solely by the length and word count, exceed some certain value and it has become sport to make fun of those that do in fact take the time to give a thorough explanation. It is as if you are required to "tweet" if you have something to say and it exceeds 2 sentences, then screw you! This is the message I'm getting here and from many outsiders that want nothing to do with Dropzone.com

I'll try to simplify all of this a little: In an environment where you can't tell who is qualified, what do you do?

You listen to the message, and hope others either contribute to the message, expand upon it, help the person out, or make the corrections and at best explain so that every one can understand what is on the table.

C

I think if someone gives an "expert" opinion, perhaps everyone might get a more satisfying response if they concentrate on whatever topic is under discussion, and making points by clearing up any confusion or clarifying difficult concepts.

You all have an opportunity to help others, in fact you have an unprecedented opportunity if you take the time.

The message or the messenger?

Quote

When you present your opinion, you should be ready to back up your qualifications to validate that opinion - This is not a difficult concept and anyone should not feel offended that they were asked to back up their opinion.

Then you won't be offended when I ask: if you can explain why this point is so important to you?

How are opinion and qualifications related?

The message or the messenger?

Whilst I think I'm starting to get where you are coming from, not everything in the world needs to be referenced to a rule or a regulation or a quote from Wikipedia.

Some of my take on this view would be something like if some small child came up to me and said that they saw something and they have this opinion as to how the world works. I can listen to what this child has to say. Or perhaps I can also say: "You are a small child, without a degree or any experience, so what you have to say isn't worth listening too."

I guess I'm trying to point out how some people want others to back up their opinion. Some will listen and some want proof, but I'm not so sure everyone is on the same page here? Yo have basically made a statement that you want anyone to accept as fact because they can always back up what they have to say because they have qualifications? I don't know, nor do I care about your qualifications,
And I am not referencing anyone here, but I have been totally fucked in the past by some so called very highly qualified individuals with lots of qualifications. Taken to a extreme, just so that I can be a pain in your ass, part of what some are asking for and their reasons remind me of tyranny. If we all were just limited too backing up our opinion and keep our mouths shut otherwise then perhaps we can all step back to the days when certain people were NOT taught to read, cause they get's uppity?

C

Or just as an option anyone can take this here: The Bonefire.

Anyone?

I am actually sincerely interested in where this goes.

C

And seriously, how have I been outted as a phony??

The message or the messenger?

All you have done other than some poor attempt to advance your agenda, which for the life of me I don't understand, is again to reinforce for a really large number of people, who refuse to have anything to do with Dropzone.com, is that the people here are bigoted control freaks. If you don't see it there way, there's always the highway. WE have a click here and either your in or your out and if we don't like ya then you can get the heck out? And just exactly what does this have to with currency?

O'h and if someone talks "down" to me, don't bother asking that person to clarify their tone or help them with their writing,...


I guess it's if you don't like my view point then get the heck out???


And what has this to do with currency or the source of advice, well I'll tell ya.... which is a little strange because this feels like I'm speaking to about a hundred or more people that all have fake profiles, exaggerated jump numbers and experience and phony stories. Which is fine, IMO.

I really get a kick out of the "demands" from those individuals that seem to have a problem accepting someone else's viewpoints. The story goes something like this:

"I want to know your history and qualifications."

Now here is a gentle reminder that the answer could go something like this:

1. I am an experienced skydiver.
2. I am a student.
3. I put the P in parachute, been doing this for 45 years and own my own skydiving company. But I enjoy the anonymity that the creator of this site promised so that I or anyone can discuss controversial topics without repercussions, etc,....

Keeping in mind there are a couple thousand fake profiles HOW CAN ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS HERE BE REASURING TO ANYONE ELSE???

Ok, lets take this a little further so you fully understand this:

Question: Are you a licensed skydiver?
Answere: Yes.

Have you proven anything? What is the point? Why do you ask? Did yo even bother to ask for some clarification of the content of anything even remotely relevant to the OP's original question?

Why do I mention this here about currency? Because this thread is more than a little nebulous, the OP has raised a question concerning more about how other s perceive others than anyone's individual currency. If you want to do something to help with currency then you need the feedback from the individual but as long as some are more interested in their voice at the expense of listening, you will never hear what they have to say.

Basically I hope I get the jist of the OP's point, help me out if you can, but I see this thread as about how to judge others??? And nothing to do with my or anyone else's idea of what it means to be current?

C

mjosparky

You can fly any aircraft you want without a med. of any kind. Just don’t get caught.

Sparky

THIS!

I know this is tongue and cheek, at least I hope so.
But you have set the stage to illustrate what I am trying to say about the business nature of skydiving. Ti's can no longer jest or make these kinds of comments. That's just the way it is. How the skyride industry is perceived is more important than ever. This isn't something that can be changed overnight when every one is under the impression that TI's need a medical because we need to something about their behavior. The public will be protected in a regulatory sense, that is already here, that there is a no better solution than having a Third class medical isn't debatable.

It's like that cop show when the sleazy detective walks up to the innocent person and says something like:

" If your innocent, you have nothing to hide, so just answer the questions." The implication is made, raise questions about someone's motives, or raise an issue by asking a question in a certain way.

And then answer it like a jerk.? (
Every time someone proposes or argues that a mandatory medical isn't needed, they are holding up a sign to the forces that actually control our sport.

Every time someone, well meaning or not says something like we only have the required medical because of a perceived DUI issue, or whatever form this takes,...

your providing all the justification "they" need to increase further draconian regulations.

This seems to be a concept that many have a problem understanding.

Don't come back with we don't need medicals period. Don't come back with statements like the "few have spoiled it for the rest of us," ...those days are gone.

Don't come back with we could do this or do that, because it isn't going to happen.

All we can do at this point is embrace the fact that we have something in place, that works, and hope that we all can increase the acceptance and enforcement for the betterment of skydiving's future.

C
And again no disrespect to mjosparky, but others watch this forum and all your doing is reinforcing the idea that skydivers can not control themselves.

Future discussions about the required medical exams should only reference the benefits to skydiving and how to implement the process in a more streamlined manner.

And please, I know yo mean well, but referencing DUI and Third class medical in the same sentence or paragraph is in fact holding up a (Jeff Foxworthy ) sign.

freethefly

The money is good. Hoping to take some time off come summer and get my CWI certification. Having been a 6G welder and being a level II in several areas in NDT, the CWI is the bonus feather. I'll be able to take a job elsewhere. Possibly pipeline weld inspection. My brother in law is currently inspecting pipeline and has thrown me some leads. Tired of the railroad bullshit.

Can't say I blame ya,...

but at least ya have a job and your alive and all of that....

have a good Holiday, good luck on your job prospects, hang in there

Chris