chutejump

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Posts posted by chutejump

  1. Senior Parachute Riggers Course, Back Rating, 9 tough days of classes and rigging work to prepare for the FAA Senior Parachute Riggers test. January 18th through the 26th. Located in the Midwest near KC, Mo.

    I currently have 3 open slots left!

    If interested or for more info please contact me at 816 984-4432 or e-mail [email protected]

  2. Quote


    If they are within the limits where is the a larger liability than people with other types of physical conditions that we allow to jump?



    After a serious injury of a larger student jumper, the plaintiffs attorney will tell the jury that it is common knowledge that persons near or at the legal limit of weight whom get involved in the sport of skydiving are at much greater risk!
    He will ask you as the service and equipment provider if you were knowledgable of this increased risk? unless you are willing to purger yourself you will state "Yes" you knew of the added risk, he will than ask on what grounds or assumption that "you" choose to put this person whom was with common knowledge at added risk into this situation?
    You will state that by your current acessment that you think the risk to be a factor of any and all jumps!
    He will than state "But you choose on behalf of the unknowledgable potential student to place him in this situation of added risk! than again he will ask "Why" did you decide to do this? you will than say I don't know or I'am not sure!
    He will than look into the eyes of the jury and state "Was it for money? Greed? to operate your business?
    You will find yourself unable to defend this statement and after a short deliberation the jury will find you guilty of neglignce, or contributory negligence, and will reward the plaintiff a free ride on your nickel for the rest of his entire life!!!!!
    Do you get it now?

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    I know that you cited the risk of breaking bones, but honestly if we let osteoporosis-ridden grandmas celebrate their 70th birthdays by doing a jump, how can we deny the heavy jumper who might actually have stronger bones? And how is that any riskier than letting the jumper you know is on BP meds continue to jump?



    Well the 70 something Grandma is doing a Tandem, you control the situation and do not allow her any opportunity to control the jump and take all precautions to remove her the option to injure herself.
    If persons are on meds they should contact their doctor for his opinion as to the effect this may have on their safety, You would be surprised that many if not most would be informed not to jump!

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    The answer is that it isn't. These people are allowed to jump because they have been informed that they are at an elevated risk, but they have chosen to assume the extra risk.



    But when they file suit against you, even if you can get them to admit they knew of the added risk you are still responsible and can be found negligent as the expert jumper whom was part of the bad decision! They will find someone to bear the responsibility, and it will not be the injured person.

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    Where do you see the excess wear? Is it on the rig or the canopy/risers? I am honestly curious because while I have seen wear on links and linesets that weren't designed for the load that was put on them, I haven't spotted any excess wear on the stitching, joints or hardware on the container itself.



    All of the above!


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    You are working under a flawed assumption. You are only looking at the physics and not the physiology. Bone density in load-bearing bones increases as the normal load on them increases which counters the failings of the cube/root law to a large, but not total, extent. Heavier people are at a elevated risk, but it's not as dire as the simple math would suggest.



    OK all you need to do is sell that train of thought and belief to the jury during the hearing.

    In the last 30 plus years I have put thousands of persons through the doors of aircraft, Static Line, Tandem, AFF, and I can state that the injuries that I have witnessed were almost totally to persons whom were on the upper end of the weight spectrum. Any mistake that they make or poor decision results in more frequent injuries, than persons of lower weight making the same bad decisions. They cannot negate themselves of the added risk, and you as the service provider cannot hide from the responsibility of allowing this decision.

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  3. Quote



    In fact, Jeff from Mirage has sent me test data where the G3 handled that kind of weight with flying colors in oder to satisfy my dzo that the rig wasn't going to disintegrate around me. Since that time, I've personally put a couple of hundred jumps on my Mirage where the exit weight was around 350 and deployment speeds typically varied from 140-175 mph. I know that that is on the extreme high end of the curve, so I inspect the gear reguarly and have not found any difference between my rig and those with a similar number of jumps used by jumpers of more average weight.



    Phree, TK, and Martin hit the nail on the head! This is a "Huge" liability issue for any DZ that makes the mistake of offering service.
    I have heard the equipment argument a thousand times, the fact is the TSO limit is the limit! Period! Nada! no exceptions!
    Equipment never fails until it "Fails" I personally have inspected equipment for over 25 years and can identify, which rig is hauling an excessive weight! so the statement that the extra weight has no effect, is in my opinion not true!
    But lets get past the equipment issue and get to the crux of the matter, Question! if a 180 pound man will brake his leg from a 5 foot fall, than a 370 pound man will brake his at? If you use basic math it will show 2.5 feet or less. The one thing that does not happen when a person gains more weight is the the basic structure, "bones" do not enlarge also, so the load upon the structure is greater and the effect of possible failure increases greatly!
    As I understand the object of skydiving is to be a fun, and enjoyable experience, not a long painful ride to the emergency room, for rods in both legs, and a hip replacement!
    Bottom Line! He is to big!


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  4. Hummmm? that is strange! Like putting a suit on a pig? Sorry I never saw a Garrett that could hold its own against a Pratt!

    Garretts are screeching loud! require more to spool up! have had shut down problems! are shaft driven throughout, more bearing wear, more shafts to turn, more rotating parts to lube and fail! But! Yes! If you want to cruise at higher altitudes for long distances and burn less fuel, it is a better beast, but if you want a balls out, down dirty in the mud brut! the name is! Pratt & Whitney!!!!

    Now put a 900 shaft HP pratt on a Caravan! and you got a "MACHINE"!!!!!!!!

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    Since most local jumpers despise Dolphin you'll be lucky to get enough to fill up one load. Maybe Dolphin and Chris Hall can pass out some flyers in Harrisonville to drum up a little business?



    Hummmm? do we still have our "panties" in a wad for the Harrisonville thing? If you were more than completely incompetent, you could have pulled the deal off! But status quote for your kind, complaining to the public, and reassigning blame to someone else as an explanation for your failures!

    Please except this as a personal invite to come out and jump the PAC!
    I'll personally take the time to teach you the proper method of how to "Pass Out" fliers!

    Tom Dolphin

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    Okay fine, that does it, I'll crawl out of the dark, dank, reaches of the internet to respond to a direct barb from the old river rat himself.



    Excuse Me! That's "Mr. Fucking River Rat!"

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    For all who care, it took me about 2 years to earn my ticket and even longer to get my A license :ph34r:. No sure which scares Tom the most these days. But I digress... Time wasn't the issue with me getting my card completed, it was the sheer dollar amount it took. Between the repeated jumps and the eventual buying off of the staff after it became apparent I wouldn't give up and go away, it got expensive.



    Hummmm? It seems these days I write more checks with your name on them, than you write to me???? Ha Ha Ha!!! O-Well what goes around "always" comes around!

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    But it was worth it. The abuse I get now is much better then when I was a student.... So keep that in mind Gato.



    Better Abuse? Does that imply that we are getting lax or that the abuse is more painful?

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    Oh and congratulations.

    PS... is your rig done yet?

    Oh, I'm gonna pay for that one....

    crash



    Is his fucking rig done yet???? I was feeling sorry! Now you done went and stepped in the shit again!!!!;)



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  10. Quote

    Congrats again Gato, sorry I had to leave so early the other night. Thanks for the beer, unlike ChuteJump I've got something good to say about it. "It was cold".
    Next weekend we'll start doing 2 way drill dives, I've got one planned out, I sure we can hammer out 35 points or so on it (no video allowed);).
    By the way, did you know it took me 2 yrs. 3 mos. to get my "A"? I believe it was in about the same number of jumps though.
    See ya soon



    I see how this is goint ot work! You ard Gato are going to gang up on the old guy on the thread, Hummmm? you got me wondering now? hummm how long did it take that gimpy Crash to get his ticket? Your beer was cold??? I should have known something was wrong when Gato reached behind himself to get my Beer! Must have been totem them in his shorts, in his butt crack!!! I wondered why they were at body temp!!!


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    Well, holy shit - it took me almost exactly 2 years to do it, but I finally earned my A license yesterday!!




    This person is living proff that the staff at MRVS are fucking miracle workers!!! We have seen better results when training pet monkeys!


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    And yes, beer was immediately paid to the appropriate parties, as I was treated to a fraternity-style hazing from my instructors, a few up jumpers, and the honorable DZO! Guys with 3/4 of a beer in their bottle were screaming at me, "I'm fuckin' thirsty, John's lookin' thirsty, Tom's fuckin' thirsty - where's my fuckin' beer?!"




    Do you call Buckhorn and Weidmans BEER!!!! Thats why we were always calling out for another! it takes 3 times as many to get a buzz on!! and you have to interrupt the drinking all of the time to relieve yourself!! I should have checked an made sure that Gato had passed the required brand of beer Quiz!! before i signed him off!!!


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    Classic. Just.....classic.




    We havn't got to the classic part yet!!!


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    It is no small honor to me to have Tom Dolphin's signature on the back of my yellow A-card. I feel I got a first-class education from him and his staff. A very special thanks to Tom, Crash, Dorinda, Gary, Mark, Ron, Scott, Ashley, and especially Russ and John for making sure my ego didn't have a chance in hell. Oh, and I can't forget Cutaway - for introducing himself to my wife with class......




    Hummm many people are honored to have my signature on paper! But those fuckers want it on a check!!! Listen it wasn't Cutaways fault! people are usually naked in the shower!!


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    And thanks to you, my fellow 'commers, for your
    encouragement and support, as well as your uncanny abilities to amuse, frighten, educate, inspire, and offend. I salute you all.




    Appearently you were more sucessful at fooling the people on DZ.com than the staff at MRVS!! WE got your number straight out of the gate!!! GATO!!!


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    So many aspects of skydiving that scared me before are now some of my favorite things - funny how that works out, innit? I used to hate sitting by the door - now I love it. The thought of jumping my own packjob was scary until I actually did it (with a spring-loaded pilot chute!) Being the guy in JM position, opening the door, and spotting for the load has to be some of the coolest shit I've ever experienced - I LOVE being able to tell my instructor to, "Get the fuck out of my airplane!!!!!!"




    SURE! its not as scary if you jump all of the time with your fucking eyes closed!!! If you hadn't set in the door like we told you we would have kicked your ass out!! You cost me money!! I lost $20.00 on the bet that I made on your pack job not opening, I have never seen such a wad of snot in my life!! JM position? we let you set there so the pilot would have a better view, so he could tell you when to get out!! Its a good thing that when you told your instructor to "Get the fuck out of your airplane" that you said it under your breath and the plane was on the ground being fueled!!


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    Now begins the REAL process of learning to become a great skydiver. I don't really know what I'm going to focus on first, but I know I want to really refine my belly skills and learn my canopy's full range of control before I venture off into some other disciplines.




    Good place to start is finding someone whom you don't have to pay to jump with you! You call it belly flying we call it stability! You should try it! Doesn't the continous visual Blue! Green! Blue! Green! make you nauses? Now do we "Really" want me to tell the canopy control story????


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    I'll be getting my rig this coming weekend (Talon, PD230, Raven III), and I can't wait to see where this goes in the future. It's almost time to venture out to other DZs and maybe a boogie or two later on.




    Yes! "I WILL HAVE!"' a (Talon, PD230, Raven III), this coming weekend! We discussed this before you left the DZ!! No Pay! No Play!, and NO! you bringing your knee pads will not be excepted as a form of payment! I said that if you can get the bank prez to give you a deposit slip for the service! I may consider it!

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    Thanks again, everybody - blue skies.

    Gato
    (aka "Chill")



    Now that I feel vindicated for all of the torture that you have put me and my staff through! and all Bull shit aside I must say!

    "CONGRATULATIONS" it was a pleasure and an honor on our part to be able to assist you in your quest for new found skills and knowledge! My you enjoy the sport and find it as rewarding as we do!

    "BLUE SKIES! BLACK DEATH!" ain't it great to feel loved!



    .

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    The logistics of doing it at a Cessna DZ are way way different than doing it somewhere like ZHills, Perris or Chicago. No possible way a multi turbine DZ can go through this with everyone who turns up.



    Agreed! We need to start at some place and find a reasonable venue to offer the information if it is requested!

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  14. Quote

    When I was at your place you went out of your way to visit with me and answered each and every question I had about you & your DZ OP's, So I know your telling the truth in your post here.

    The only problem I found with your DZ op's was...



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    1. the back brace in the 182 student slot, is way to far aft for us fat ass oldfarts comfort, you need to move that back a tad.



    I'll build a new one for quick installation when you come back!

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    2. You didn't have any cool t-shirts or bumper stickers to add to my collection.



    I used all of the money to buy Beer, Food, and Strippers when I heard you where stopping by!

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    3. the swoop pond water is dirty and stinks too as well as it's too long of a walk back to the hanger in its current location, you need to get a pick up with cold AC to drive us back.



    The water was normal, and you are confused! That isn't a swoop pond it is the MIssouri River! and I sent the pickup out to haul back the Beer, Food, and Strippers I ordered when I heard you were stopping by!

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    With all the money you horde under your bed you should be able to get fresh water in your swoop pond to say the least.



    In the midwest we call replacement of water in the swoop pond "Rain" Let me know when you are stopping by again and I'll put in a request for rain before you arrive! so it will be fresh! Also we have made a new overhead photo of the DZ so you can tell the difference between the swoop pond and the river! The river has Barges and boats on it! and the swoop pond is much closer to the DZ!
    I stopped hoarding my money under my bed (much to lumpy!) so now during the week while I am setting around sunbathing and drinking Pina Colatas I bury the money on my property, but it has become appearent that I have been drinking to much as I have forgotten exactly where I buried the money that I hoard?
    Sorry you left early last time! but it turned out OK! I drank all the Beer!, ate all the Food!, and entertained all of the Strippers myself! (Took me about a week to recover!!!):):D:ph34r:

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    Fair enough Tom, thanks for your response. Another perspective and possible door opened in my book. I really can't imagine though going into a DZ like Perris for instance and asking those things. I did try once and the lady looked at me like Didn't I know where I was? And yeah, I did, but that didn't mean I actually knew the nuts and bolts of the place... You would think it would be easy to judge but I just don't take things for granted anymore. Who is the best person to ask questions to and don't you think they will be offended that we are suspecting customers of them by asking for proof? It kind of starts things off not on the best foot



    This is where I would excercise the common probability issue, High profile high turn DZs (Perris, Eloy, Deland, SDC, ETC.) are scrutinized more than most from the attention they get and the fact that they perform so many jump operations in their season, DZs like this are doing thousand upon thousands of lifts per season, most of these lifts are hauling AFF and or Tandems which create a profit margin that would easily allow for a exceptable maintainance program to ge supported. They also have a very big vested interest, in cooperating with the FAA in their district, and other Government agencies, to continue operations at this location. It would prove very detrimental to loss crediability with the purchasing public and jumpers if your fixed operating profits are that high. Also consider the length of time the DZ has been in operation, most of these locations are the old boys on the block! You don't get to stay and play if you are breaking the rules, with the high number of operations lack of maintanance would catch up with you very fast!
    But a new guy in town with a leased turbine aircraft, borrowed equipment and a business plan to take over all the jumping in the state would cause me great concern! Like any form of aviation, when you start out new, you have a bag full of luck and a empty bag of experience, many fail to realize that the point is to fill the bag of experience long before you empty the bag of luck!

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  16. Quote

    So you feel the solution is for every jumper to ask lots and lots of questions at an establishment? How far would you go out of your way to be bothered by every jumper to drag out the airplanes logbooks and show proof that your operation and pilots are decent ones? I have been to MRVS I was impressed by the "looks" of it, but if we are to become that armed with knowledge, my point is, on a busy day are you really going to have that kind of time when you are also trying to run and oversee operations?



    I have had few persons ever request to see my logs or ask questions about my operation over the years. This is unfortunate! I pride myself and my operation for adhearing to the standards, and receiving the perverbial "Gold Star" after a FAA survailance inspection.
    If ask I will gladly produce the documents if requested. Could it be a possible burden at times? Maybe, But realisticly how many "new people" arrive at the DZ every week?, that may need this info? You could incorperate this info and verification into your initial training process for every student, and require new Experienced jumpers to set through this section for verification before they chose to do paperwork and make their jumps?, another thing that would occur is that after a short time the word would spread through the jumping community and through the networking customer base that you are a serious player and keep your staff and equipment up to speed which would in time minimize this effort.
    The people whom come to me and ask questions are a refreshing breath to the dailey grind, and I will go out of my way to address their concerns. The people whom in reality scare the living shit out of me, are the assuming masses whom arrive with the attitude that everything is taken care of for them (FAA and or USPA) and they have no responsibility to what may happen!
    The amusement park mentality! These are the people who will sue your ass into obivion if they are not happy with the outcome of activities at your location, and their attorneys will sell to the jury that they were not informed by you, that the FAA and USPA dropped the ball, and had they (the customer) had no reason to believe that anything was other than perfect!

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    I think it would be great if the bar of knowledge was raised but how do we do it short of including airplane/pilot dynamics in a safety day discussion perhaps or... ???



    I do this and have for some time! By doing this I also apply another layer of responsibility as the jumpers whom now have knowledge as to the inner workings of the operation, help keep me in check, and are much more appreciative when they find out a plane is down for an inspection or maintainance!

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    Just talk to other people about it so they are more aware too? Do we just go up to manifest when we sign our waivers at a new DZ and start asking questions? And then to really arm ourselves with the necessary knowledge to know whether or not we are getting bullshitted or not it seems like to make a skydive I need to gain the education of an A&P, FAA Inspector, pilot training expert, OK. I guess that is what I have to do... It will take me a long time to get there so I guess I won't skydive until I do if that is what is necessary. In theory, I think your idea is a good one but I think it would fail in practice.



    It would be very simple to spend a short time with any local FAA maintainance inspector or IA, A&P tech in the field and ask for them to show you a log book, and discribe the entries, it is very simple and straight forward, with dates, and entries, that must correspond and tack times that are available by viewing the instrument panel of the aircraft. also you would want to see the pilots current medical certificate, License, and log. No majic just basic facts of activities.

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    The reason I don't think it would be successful is because I think the majority of skydivers may take these things for granted like I used to, they can be apathetic and ignorant. If they don't read their 20 page manual for their rig then how can we expect to see a huge change from them now becoming airplane mechanical wizards? How many people are going to get a free education on all of those things? How many people are truly qualified or have the time to teach such things? Some people might and it would be nice if information regarding aircraft and pilots was more readily available. I do agree that skydivers need to be more knowledgeable about these things but realistically I don't see it happening.***

    Unfortunately I agree with you! I don't see people taking the time to assume some control over their activities, This in my opinion is a bad thing! The perverbial "Nanny State" that you hear so often. Ultimately we will all be punished (the DZs whom operate by the numbers and also the ones whom could care less) with increased inspections, increased costs, and ultimatley reduction of the sport.



    I would love to see a solution like this one work and some do get weeded out by that process but I don't think it happens quickly enough and it seems like a step in by the FAA would help to raise that bar a little quicker. I don't know how the FAA works or their timelines. If they are just a slow government agency with a lot of beaurocratic BS or they are like hawks in the way the oversee things. I know there are a lot of problems right now in the airline industry and I am not sure where skydiving plays in the list of importance.***

    Well I can say that the call for more survailance has been made through all FSDO offices that I have had contact with. Some positive and some negative things can come from this! First the FAA is like any government entity, and march to their own drum beat, Lucky for us they march "Slowly" They are not currently being allowed extra funding to pay for inspectors to work on the weekends to perform these inspections, this could change, or they could split the work weeks and have alternate weekend activities? Who knows?
    Every FAA FSDO is its own individual entity, with the ability to entertepate rules and regulations as they see fit. They could be hard asses (if they have had incidents like here in Missouri) or they could conduct business as usual, (with a few more inspections) if they have had no problem in their areas for some time. But again I believe that if we the end user require DZs to meet the standards, and enforce this belief by not supporting the offenders we can and would be much more effective at controlling and addressing this problem than increased FAA intervention. Money Talks! Bullshit Walks!

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  17. Quote


    I agree, but that doesn't address option 'a)' make an accurate determination if the DZ is doing things as they should be.

    You cannot determine if a DZ if doing everything they should as they should be by asking a couple of questions.



    I agree! I am lucky that my involvement in the sport and aviation, has given me a lot of insight as to the the inner goings on, and the questions that I can ask will make better use for myself than the layman.
    The perfect answer I do not have, but again I believe that if even the average jumper were to spend the time to educate themselves as to the basic requirements, of a jump operation as required by the FAA, they would be less likely to support locations that don't comply and may have some effect on these types of operation when they realize that the bar of knowledge has been raised.


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    DV

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    If you believe you can just walk onto a DZ start asking hard questions and looking around and either a) make an accurate determination if the DZ is doing things as they should be, or b) not get asked to leave, you are kidding yourself.



    Well during my 31 years in the sport I have done that, (asked questions) and I have been asked to leave a few times. (very few!) Never bothered me in the least! If you ask me to leave, and are unwilling to answer my resonable questions, it is most likely because you have something to hide! And in my leaving unbeknownst to you! have done me a favor, (It will removed me and my friends from the risk of being injured or killed by your noncompliance maintanance program, or unqualified pilot).
    You have also done your DZ a disservice, it will be known to all I speak with, that you are unwilling to show proof of compliance to FAA operations, either way you! Lose!
    I agree that this may create friction at a few (very few) DZs if you adopt this approach! But asking these questions you verify and ease your concerns about a operation new to you, and I believe this approach will cause you much less pain and suffering in the long run. Just my opinion!


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    Are you saying that the U. S. government operates the military and trains military pilots and mechanics for the purpose of subsidizing the civilian airlines ??:S

    I'm not sure if that is the biggest crock of shit ever posted on this site, but it certainly ranks way up there. Now that I've stopped laughing, I'll try to read the rest of your well-reasoned and intelligent post.



    No Kevin I didn't say that they do this to subsidise the airlines, but when ex military apporach the airline for a position they are allowed to fast track through much of the requirements, with reference to the military experience flight time and training that they received, Maybe not the best method to offer it? but still a fact! This privilage is not recognized in all types of training or skills that may be pocessed by a person whom leaves the service, but is supported and allowed by the government to support the US transportation system, (Airlines) Hope you don't tear a sphineter from laughter!

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    Care to elaborate on what those airline subsidies are ?





    Airlines whine about "regulations" and "freedom of the skies", but it in fact they receive a wide range of subsidies, tax preferences, and other forms of special treatment from Federal, state, and local governments in the USA. (The phenomenon is widespread elsewhere in the world, even if the details vary from country to country.)

    How? Let me count the ways (in no particular order):

    Airports and air trafffic control infrastructure are built and operated by tax-exempt government entities (consider the real estate and other taxes that would be paid by privately owned airports on huge tracts of land in prime urban and suburban locations) with below-market capital costs (tax-exempt government bonds).


    Employee training for pilots, mechanics, etc. is provided by the military at no cost to airlines. (Ex-military pilots and mechanics may require additional training and certification for specific civilian aircraft types, but they've already logged thousands of very expensive hours of jet aircraft experience.)


    Air traffic control and other services to airlines was provided by the government. (Airlines did claim that they pay for this in user fees, but that ignores the taxes that would be paid on private ATC infrastructure, and the artificially depressed labor costs: As government employees, air traffic controllers and many other civil aviation workers are forbidden to strike, enabling the government unilaterally to impose below-market wages.)


    Airlines are paid all the time, even when their aircraft aren't being used, for agreeing to make their planes available on demand to the government as part of the "Reserve Air Fleet". But the times when they are needed -- times of war -- are generally times of reduced civilian air travel, when they would otherwise be idle. And when the "Reserve Air Fleet" is used, airlines are paid market rates for government charters.


    Government funding for military aircraft subsidizes production and operation of civilian aircraft: Manufacturers of aircraft and associated equipment pay nothing for knowledge transfers from government-funded military aircraft research and development, prototyping, testing, maintenance experience, etc. to civilian aircraft. Military aviation provides critical support for economies of scale and continuity of operations for manufacturtes of aircraft, support equipment, and related services during cyclical declines in civilian aircraft demand. Many civilian aircraft types are sold directly to the military, and these sales are often essential to enlarging production runs to the break-even point.


    Airlines have a statutory exemption from Federal anti-trust law to allow them to participate in IATA "traffic conferences" to fix standard "industry fares".


    Under the preemption clause of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, airlines are exempt from state and local truth-in-advertising and other consumer protection laws. (This wouldn't matter if the Federal government enforced similar rules, But, as state Attorneys General have pointed out , the Feds allow many practices that enhance airline profits but would be forbidden under state and local fraud laws.)


    Airlines based in the USA are protected by Federal law from all foreign competition: No airline based anywhere else in the world is allowed to carry passengers between points in the USA, and no foreign entity is allowed to own more than 25% of the voting stock in any airline based in the USA. This applies even to US colonies: It's illegal to buy a through ticket on a foreign airline between Guam and the mainland USA via e.g. Seoul, Taipei, or Tokyo (even though travel agents occasionally issue such tickets by mistake), no matter how much cheaper that would be than a ticket on Continental Micronesia, the only USA airline with service between those places. You have to buy 2 separate tickets, and claim and re-check your luggage at the transfer point. Under "Buy American" rules, all travel funded, even in part, by the US government must be on a US-flag airline, no matter how much more it costs than a foreign-flag competitor. Where, as is often the case, there is often only one US-flag airline serving a given destination, this gives them a de facto monopoloy on government-funded travel, a large and often high-revenue (last minute business travel by government contractors, etc.) portion of the traffic on some routes.
    If airlines really want to be free of government regulation and oversight, they first should have to agree to give up their government subsidies and special privileges and protections.

    Does that answer your question?

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    Well we at Quantum Leap would have passed your inspection with flying colors. 12 "safe" years in the business, 2 accidents which were very explainable causes; one was due to pilot error (canopy collision) and one was due to what I consider equipment failure of an experimental canopy that spun a straight in approach to the ground. As far as I know, very good BBB standings, good relations with airport manager and FSDO. In fact our FSDO guy Mark loved us and visited us often. We were incredibly organized, manifest was run by an ex-military manifest b who knew exactly how to run things smoothly, efficiently and did a good job of keeping everyone happy. Our staff was over-standardized so that every instructor knew and kept records and logs of every student in their progression. There was also strong cohesion and a team comradery atmosphere between staff members inside and out of the workplace. Equipment was always stored inside a covered area, we had one of the most anal riggers and master riggers in the industry, I know because he trained me and nothing got by him... The aircraft was always hangared safely and appropriately, the pilot who was in his early 40s, started flying when he was 16 and was currently an airline FO for a major airline so he was very current. The facility was in above average condition, staff and customers were happy to the best of my knowledge without friction or confusion. Our staff was professional, knowledgeable, dressed for success and uniformity, organized and had excellent skills in AFF, Tandem and rigging. Our DZO and pilot was also a World Champion Crew Dog.

    Now what?



    I agree all of these things were in place and worked well, 12 years ago when the money that was paid for the service actually covered the costs and produced a profit!
    But during that time costs continued to increase, more rules were added, customers expected more perks, and the only thing that didn't change was the prices that customers were charged for the service, I' am sure i'll here, Oh they raised lift ticket prices, really! What $2.00? when the cost to offer the service had increased by 50%? The reasons for the accident are very basic! MONEY! MONEY! MONEY! If you are willing to pay you can get anything you want, if you are not, you get what you get!
    The answer is very simple, you want safe? pay the price! or we continue down the path we are on! Aviation, especially by the standards of safe Aviation are not cheap! Unless you can get the government to subsidize all the DZ like they do the airlines?

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    In order to determine if the DZ is ‘safe’, you would have to really investigate the place. That would take a lot of time and experience to know what to ask and look at and be able to make sense of the answers and what you see. Odds are that a jumper would never get far enough into that process to make a solid evaluation of a DZ before being asked to leave. A first jump student has absolutely no hope of making an evaluation of a DZ. Interviewing multiple staff members, the pilot(s), the DZO, the A & P (which may or may not be on-site), going through maintenance records, etc, is a time consuming endeavor for everyone involved. I don’t think that going through all of that for every new jumper is an efficient system for ensuring compliance with FAR’s and industry standards. How would a DZ stay in business if they had to spend all that time and energy going through everything with every new jumper that walks through the door?

    I don’t ask for the airline pilot’s log book, aircraft maintenance records, etc when boarding a commercial flight. If every passenger on every flight did, and the airlines were required to allow them access, the system would collapse. It is much more efficient for the FAA to ensure that the airlines comply with the FAR’s. The FAA does a fairly good job of it and the airlines have a remarkable safety record.



    Hummm? so you are saying the the USPA GM program, is basicly meaningless? Thanks! The point I have made many times.
    Here is the basics of what I read posted in response to my thoughts,

    "We are to be safe, at the DZ and on the ride to altitude, because we pay money for the experience, it is the responsibility of the FAA USPA, and the DZO to provide this to us!"

    If you believe this I have some ocean front property in kansas that I'll sell cheap! Let me see how do I do this use the word "safe" in a sentence with "Skydiving" Hummmm? Why do you think that people get involved in the sport? The risk? What gives the buzz on a dive? The assumed risk!! You want your cake and eat it too!

    This is an adult sport with adult benefits, but it also has adult risks and consequences! If you want to start paying $50.00 a jump Hell DZs will give you any safety guarentee you want! But if you want the $20.00 cheapo that you are willing to pay for now, you get what you get, if this is the crux of the problem than the FAA should require all operations go to 135 standards, you can all be safe, with the few jumps you can afford to make per year and all will be well! Safety cost money! How safe can you afford to be?

    No don't assume any responsiblity for your own devisions or actions that is not the american way we are all entitled to the very best at little or no cost, because it is the responsibility of the government, the organization, and the businesses we visit! Bull Shit!

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    What should a first time jumper exactly check to do this homework?

    What should an experienced jumper do the first time they get to a new DZ?



    I would spend much time researching the history of the operation, time in business, accidents, BBB in the area, Airport manager, Local FSDO. I would visit the DZ during operation, Watch, Look, Listen, See if they are organized, is the info they give standardized, or do you get diffrerent answers from each staff person, how is the equipment stored, aircraft hangered? whom is responsible for maintanance? Whom is the pilot, what ratings, is he current? What condition is the facility in? Do the staff and customers happy? Is there friction and confusion? These things should give you as a student or erxperienced jumper a feel for this location, if you like what you see, feel, hear go somewhere else. I know many will say, "That is a lot trouble just to make a jump" Yes it is! But we aren't buying widgets here, we are placing our lives in possible danger, how can you complain for safety and not except your part of the responsibility to make sure you are safe?

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    If they had read the manual and "did their homework" (instead of throwing it in the closet with all of the "EXTRA" unnecessary jump items), they would be knowledgable that the loop is to be replaced at every inspection.


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    Which manuals specify that the closing loop must be replaced for every inspection?




    From the cypress packing manual!

    Packing

    Generous treatment of CYPRES loops with silicone improves the reserve container opening considerably

    General information:
    At every repack the loops must be checked carefully and be replaced.
    Be smart, use the CYPRES Loop system regardless if you have a CYPRES or if you don't have a CYPRES.

    Refer to the CYPRES Packer's Checklist for determining if an existing CYPRES installation is proper for the particular harness / container system, and if the CYPRES components are installed and located in the correct places.

    Grommets
    Grommets with rough edges ultimately will destroy any loop. Replace damaged grommets immediately.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reserve loops

    The reserve loop must be placed under a tension factor of at least 5 kg once the reserve has been packed. The loop material has a maximum extensibility of 7.5 percent. Maximum extensibility is the length to which the material can be stretched before it will break.

    By contrast, the maximum extensibility of Kevlar material, which is considered to be quite rigid, is 5.2 percent.

    We recommend that you pull on the loop twice, as firmly as possible, prior to installation. The elongation of the loop after installation should not exceed 3 millimeters in the case of a one-pin container, and 6.5 millimeters in the case of a two-pin container.

    The loop material has a diameter of approx. 1.6 millimeters and a tensile strength of approx. 180 kp. The threaded area (where the loop is pulled through itself) has a higher tensile strength.

    Because both the loop and the pull-up material consist of polyethylene, all actions which might build up excessive heat by friction should be avoided. Otherwise, the material will loose some tensile strength at temperatures above 100 degrees Centigrade (C°), and might even melt in extreme cases. Such stress can be put on the loop when the pull-up is passed through the loop or pulled out after packing is completed.

    ! Therefore, be sure to extract the pull-up only from below the ripcord pins !
    and only very slowly.


    The looped end of the CYPRES loop should be impregnated with silicone except for 1/2" next to the disc. Ready-made loops provided by Airtec have already been treated with silicone the first 2". Running loops should be impregnated completely.

    Generous treatment of CYPRES loops with silicone

    is improving the reserve container opening considerably.

    In addition, we suggest that you prepare one further reserve loop of the appropriate length when installing CYPRES, and leave it together with the disc and a CYPRES pull-up (2 with a two-pin CYPRES and two softbodkins with two-pin Pop Tops) in the nylon pocket along with the stowed cable. This will provide you with a new loop and pull-up whenever you need one.


    Plan to have sufficient loops for scheduled reserve repacks. Then the loop(s) in the spare pocket will always be available in the event of a real reserve deployment and repack.

    Replace the spare loop(s) as soon as possible or
    at each repack.

    Stowing the canopy:

    When stowing the reserve canopy into the freebag, be sure to take into account that:

    1. The processing unit is located in the middle of the wall between reserve and main compartments of the container.

    2. On one-pin containers in which the release unit has been placed above the pilot chute, there will be extra thickness (8.4mm) caused by the release unit's placement on top of the pilot chute.

    Try to pack the reserve so that CYPRES' visibility is minimized.

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    But eventually, someone is going to be either in freefall or under canopy and due to wear and tear on their reserve closing loop it is going to break and they will have a premature reserve deployment. Heck, they may even be head down going 200 mph when it breaks. But oh well, it was their responsibility to know better... They should have done their homework...? :S




    In my opinion Yes! They should have done their homework! Question when you deliver a new rig with complete assembly and the manuals, what do you believe happens to the most important items that you give them?
    #1 the most important item is the manual! Why? do you ask? What you have given them is a life saving piece of equipment! For this item to serve it's intended purpose, the end user must be knowledgable of it's manufactured uses and limitations of use, this also address, required inspections and maintanance.
    If they had read the manual and "did their homework" (instead of throwing it in the closet with all of the "EXTRA" unnecessary jump items), they would be knowledgable that the loop is to be replaced at every inspection. Than if you didn't change it, they could call you on the carpet for substandard inspection, and make sure that all other potential customers know that you do not follow the FAA and Manufactures statdards of inspection.
    Should they expect you to do this? Replace the loop?YES! But again "They" are the end user and should check!
    We are all lazy to the extent that we perfer to believe that every process performed is done to the standard that is required, than we scream and complain when we find that it is not, When ultimately "We" are responsible to check and verify as the end user! especially if the process may effect our ability to survive!
    Yes! I am a Master Riger and DPRE! and Yes! I change loops every inspection, and I also get bitched at because I charge $60.00 plus for an inspection.
    We need to change the mind set that everything is taken care of for our benefit and safety! Sorry to fog peoples vision of grandure! But it is not! If we educate ourselves, ask questions, check to verify what we have purchased or paid to have been performed we will provide ourselves a safer activity and weed out the offenders.


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    Being able to use common sense would be great! But how can we when problems with airplanes and incompetent mechanics are hidden from the general public? How much does the general public know about Vyse, the P factor, TBOs on an engine or how much flight training the pilot has? What kind of common sense are you referring to? I think common sense speaks that if the place is in business with a fairly good safety record and is a member of the USPA, how much more research can the standard person do to insure safety? That is the problem right there. The general public assumes that although there is risk in the sport and you can die doing it, all of the regulated and mandated rules and laws are being followed to prevent that.




    When I started jumping, I had no intentions of ever becoming, a rigger, pilot, A&P mechanic, etc. but as I sat in the aircraft climbing to altitude I realized there were many parts of this process that I did not have any knowledge of, or any control over, My approach to common sense, is to arm myself with knowledge about what is going on around me!
    A USPA group membership, FAA inspection, or safety record is a poor excuse for people to assume that all is well, and not do their home work! Safety has a price! and if you really want it you must pay for it with work and knowledge on your part to better increase the probability of your safety.
    If you are a lion trainer, would you want to know when he was fead last? maybe some insight as to what activities pisses him off might be good to know?
    Many people walk around with this false sense of security that everything is OK and that they are being looked out for, by the powers that be? They lack responsibility! Statements that I hear! "Its to much work to do this! or that", "I pay them good money! why should I worry about that?" You are not forced to know, but if you don't find out, and arm yourself with knowledge, than you have no position of complaint if you get bitten by the lion!


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