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Pasted from an online convo just now:

Me
skydiving is the most boring thing EVER

Non-skydiving friend
oh dear

Me
I did one jump and then came home

Non-skydiving friend
you seem more excited by buying stuff for it

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My only advice is to not get a Sabre 190 or a Sabre 210 - they are notorious for opening HARD. My last jump on my Sabre 190 it opened so hard it broke 9 lines (including tearing off the bottom skin attachment point on a couple) and damaged a couple of cells.
I have my opinions on your wingloading as well, but I will leave that to the folks who know a lot more than I do
ETA I believe both the 190 and the 210 have the double brake lines, and I think I recall a rigger telling me that contributed to the hard openings, but I could be way off - it was a few years ago.

Really? All the reviews on this site talk about 1000ft snivels and super soft openings :/

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Unless you actually told them your weight when asking for canopy advice, maybe your instructors thought you look lighter than you actually are. People underestimate my weight all the time.

Yea, I was thinking that. I'm 200-210lbs naked (there's a thought for you all...) at 6ft, but it's allllllll muscle, baby, so I probably don't look that heavy. I have definitely mentioned my weight to them before but it could easily have been forgotten. I will try to jump this weekend and grab someone to sit down with and talk to about it clearly.

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Do your instructors have a vested interest in selling a smaller canopy? I've known instructors who are morons.

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If your instructors own the canopy or if it belongs to someone they know…..walk away. They do not have your best interests in mind.

Sparky

No, I must emphasise that this isn't the case. The gear I'm looking at is from sellers completely external to my DZ with no known connection to my instructors.

It's a good point to raise, though.

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I'm sure others with loads of experience will be along shortly to tell you why you should be conservative in your canopy sizing. But for my own interest, how many instructors at what level (e.g. CCI, DZO, whatever) suggested moving straight on to a 170? (I make that about 1.3 wing loading). What DZ is that (I think you jump in the UK, no)?

I would suggest trying their 190 before buying one, if they are happy with that, and never jumping something you aren't comfortable with for reasons of finances or peer pressure (or even due to "good advice")

good luck finding kit!

To be fair, the "170 or even a 150" came from an instructor (AFF) who didn't have anything to do with me personally, and he may have been talking about further down the line, a bit later in my "career". Another who I am much more involved with has approved a 190 as suitable, but we didn't discuss it at length. I'll definitely jump the rental 190 before purchasing one, yea.

Do canopy manufacturers tend to publish quite conservative size/wingloading guidelines, would you say? I’m around 90kg (200lbs), without any gear. I have about 30 jumps, all recently. My instructor and others at the DZ have talked about me looking for canopies around 190 or even 170. I was originally thinking of something over 200, like a 220 or so. The smallest I’ve flown so far is a 230 (the next size down in their rental rigs is a 190, I believe).

Given how rare it is to find second-hand canopies over 200sqft (even 190s are uncommon), I could be waiting a long time to find anything a bit bigger. I have a decent offer on a Sabre 2 190 which I’m tempted by, but my first thoughts were that I ought to take something a bit bigger. A chart I’m looking at here suggests I stay on 210s and 230s until I’ve got over 200 jumps or so, and PD’s Sabre 2 sizing chart recommends a 190 for only "advanced" and "expert" jumpers of my weight range.

Are my instructors and others being reckless in saying that a 190 is ok? Or are the manufacturers being understandably conservative and cautious? I have no particular wish to get a small canopy at this stage – I do want a *good* canopy, though, that will be fun and safe to fly. If I had this same Sabre 2 offered to me but in a 210 size, I would definitely get that instead of the 190. But I struggle to find kit of that size, as mentioned before, and realistically the choice is between a newer, smaller canopy and a much older, larger canopy, which perhaps would not perform as well or as safely on balance.

Thanks for any advice,

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The price is £600 (US$950), shall I go for it?

That would be a nice first canopy for sure. See if you can get it shipped to your rigger for an inspection and so he can check the line trim (this will help determine the life of the lines). If they'll ship it without payment, great. If not, make sure they'll give you a one week money-back guarantee (minus shipping costs) if it doesn't pass your inspection.

Now if it doesn't pass, you can always try to renegotiate the price, and maybe just ask for $100 back instead of returning the canopy all together, or whatever an appropriate refund would be based on the results of your inspection.

Either way, assembling a rig peice by peice is usually a better way to go. I will take longer, but you'll end up with exactly what you want. Generally if you try to buy a complete rig, some part of it is not 'exactly' what you want, but you just live with it anyway. Peice by peice, you don't buy anything that's not 100% right for you, and end up with exactly what you want.

Yep, the seller will send it to my rigger if I put the cash up to be held as well, while it's looked at. I'll get in touch with my rigger ASAP and see if he can help. If this will be a decent canopy that will last me a while (I must be about 210lbs exit weight, all considered, so if anything it's a tiny bit small) then it seems worth the money.

Thanks,

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^ thanks for the advice. How about a 2003 Sabre 2 190 with 600 jumps? I guess that would be a much better canopy, right?

The cost is about £600.

that is a totally awesome canopy

remember it will need to be relined soon since it is probably near the end of an acceptable out of trim range.

hmm, well I could buy this now if I wanted to. Sabre 2, 190. DOM 2003 and 600 jumps, supposedly a rigger says there's about 150 jumps in it before a re-line.

Pics: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561138_10151998201815085_556073634_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250859_10151890552795085_97196378_n.jpg


The price is £600 (US$950), shall I go for it?

^ thanks for the advice. How about a 2003 Sabre 2 190 with 600 jumps? I guess that would be a much better canopy, right?

The cost is about £600.

Yea, don't get emotionally attached to the DZ so easily. The other one will be "just as good" and sounds a lot more convenient over all.

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Yes, after it was shipped to my rigger, I tried it on for fit, the rigger fully inspected it, and said it was good.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have my eye on a rig at the moment that is at a suitable price point. I have another thread open about it, basically a PD190 (DOM unknown) in a Vector II. With a dying AAD that will last me until next year.

I don't particularly want to make the journey to see it in person, as it will cost me a further 5-10% of the purchase cost plus a day of my time. And though it's nice to get your hands on things to check them out, I really don't know what I'm looking for anyway. It's just been repacked and inspected by the seller's local rigger.

Mentioned above: could I have it posted directly to my DZ's rigger, for him to look over before I release the money? Is that common practice, then?

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It's impossible to say anything about that rig without seeing it. But a PD190 is an old design F111 main that shouldn't be loaded over about 1:1 and will start losing it's flare after about 600-800 jumps. A Vector II container probably has velcro all over it which means you're best not to go free flying in it. So, it's almost certainly old and probably well knackered but might still save your ass from certain splattage. I've jumped them and probably would again if I was desperate, but I doubt I'd pay actual money for one.

Here are some pics:

http://wm42.inbox.com/thumbs/5_138217_e55fc581_tn.jpg.thumb
http://wm42.inbox.com/thumbs/8_138214_13551faf_tn.jpg.thumb
http://wm42.inbox.com/thumbs/c_138210_76a4b11_tn.jpg.thumb
http://wm42.inbox.com/thumbs/e_13820e_b6ddbe2_tn.jpg.thumb

I doubt they help very much, but you can get a rough idea.

How do you figure out if a certain pair of glasses will block the wind well enough, before you try them in the air and go blind?

Do they have to have a very tight seal to the face? And do you have to wear a string around the back of your neck, between the arms of the glasses, in case they come off?

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have an option at the moment to get a decent PD 190 in a vector II, not ideal colours but I’ll manage. It’s only £1000, including an AAD with 8 months left on it. It’s 5hrs away and would cost me £60-100 to travel to see it. I have the name of the rigger who inspected it at the seller’s local DZ, so I could call and ask for confirmation of that, and then just have it posted? I’d go to see it but I can’t think what I’d do in person – I don’t know anything more about it than I can tell from pictures and I won’t know how it fits until I get it in the air anyway. What do you reckon?

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they obviously dont like you

I couldn't blame them.

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I've posted a thread in Site Issues with a link to this thread here so hopefully they will see it.

Thanks very much!

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Hello there

We had a spate of spammers signing up to UKS which led to me changing the settings from automated approval to manual account approval.

Currently there are 8 outstanding account applications and none are more than 4 days old, so i am unsure what has happened as you say your applications are weeks old...

I have moved house and jobs in the last few weeks so my internet access has been more limited than usual plus Paul the other moderator has been on holiday!!

I will ensure that all outstanding applications are checked and approved just now. If you are still having problems call me - i'll pm you my number...

Regards

James

No problem! My last attempt could have been a month or two ago now, I can't remember. Maybe it got rejected as a spam risk. My latest signup was only a few days ago, so I'll be in that group of eight somewhere.

Thanks a lot

Yo - I've signed up twice on UK Skydiver forums, weeks apart, and neither account received moderator approval. How long is it supposed to take? Until I'm approved I can't PM or otherwise contact any member of the board there, including moderators, so I've got to way to ask about it.

Has anyone else signed up successfully, recently?

I'm scared to blink in case I fall asleep.

Why would you even consider the "keep re-injuring it" option? That just wouldn't be even remotely acceptable to me. You're (presumably) not even in a competitive sport with some great reason to trash yourself and turn temporary injuries (if there is such a thing) into permanent ones.

If it's cool and tough to intentionally compound injuries, why not just stove in downwind with no flare next time, then you'll be even more awesome!

Injuries: FUCK YEA!

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As it looks like you're relatively new to the sport and its gear, I would NOT recommend buying something unseen/untested.

Further, I would start by getting yourself a rigger (yes, before you even have a rig). You want someone who knows the gear to be on your side. (S)he can help you find the right gear, quickly evaluate brands/designs/sizes for appropriateness for your loading/skills/plans. I would also insist that any sale be dependent upon a favorable inspection/condition report from your rigger. This will cost you up front, but pay off in two ways... First, if that's not acceptable to the seller then you likely didn't want their rig anyway (since its at your expense, what don't they want your rigger to find??) Second, you'll know that your rig is in good shape and that your rigger is comfortable working on it. I've been bought junk and by the time I finished discussing what I was seeing, my customer's were thanking me for keeping them safe.

For me when I was at your level was to buy new. Square reserves were rare in used rigs and the Cypres had just come on the market, so what I wanted wasn't on the used market.

On the positive side, while I spent more, I knew the complete history of the gear, I got exactly what I wanted and fit me correctly.

Just my $.02
JW

Thanks. My DZ has a rigger who will check over gear for me - I asked about that. He's a classic grumpy old bastard, though, so I haven't really had a good chat to him about finding me a rig and so on. I'd trust him to check my kit, though, for sure.

New isn't really an option for me - simply too expensive and I will be relying on getting a reasonable resale value for what I buy, one day. I've got no business skydiving at all on my current salary, to be honest! Something second hand and just-about-jumpable is fine for me at the moment.

Good thread, but my main complaint about most skydiving videos, and no doubt most other "cool" sport videos, is that the producers nearly always see fit to cut between scenes at every available music beat. It gets to the point where you might as well be looking through an album of stills, you hardly see anything happen in each shot before it flicks to something else. It can be really good to see longer sequences and flights, instead.

At least it's not as bad as the hopefully dead practice of showing the first four seconds of an exit, then running it backwards so they return to the plane, then go out again. And back in again.

I'm talking about second-hand stuff in particular, of course. I'm in the UK and this year so far haven't found any suitable gear within a reasonable travelling distance. Info from sellers is usually vague at best and I don't want to commit to a 7-8 hr round trip just to go and look at something that I won't even understand much about myself. Anything advertised in the usual places tends to be snapped up in hours to days, so I'd have to move fast and arranging to travel (I don't have a car) all the way to see it can be tricky.

For my first rig, should I definitely get to see it in person and test-jump it? Or is it ok to have it inspected at a distant DZ then posted to me if it checks out? Will I be likely to find it "doesn't fit" or I just don't like it for some reason?

Every time I jump I spend £10 on gear rental, so you can see it adds up very quickly and so there is a financial incentive to buy ASAP, even if it's a bit more expensive than I expected. Opening up to distant sales might make it a bit easier, but with my current low level of experience might it be too risky?

Thanks,

My instructor strongly recommended, but didn't insist, that I wear gloves on every jump - to spare my hands if I have a rough landing on a poor surface. I've not jumped without gloves yet, and my DZ is definitely a gloves-on kind of DZ for some reason, all year round. I'll try it some time, though - I enjoyed being gloveless in a tunnel, the feel on my hands was nice.

Currently I wear some golf gloves, which are very thin indeed.

There's hardly a thing I can say at the DZ without some perverted lunatic laughing and winking. When getting an old student rig on my back and the risers became exposed, they thought it was highly amusing when I asked someone to tuck my flaps in.

Talking about things that can happen to me rather than things I could accidentally do to someone else, then definitely at the top of my list are permanent injuries, worst of all being paralysis I suppose, or anything leaving me in constant pain. Something like a really hard opening that snaps me in half, I fear that more than a rough landing doing the same because I have basically no control over the former and it feels like a random event that could happen on any given jump.

Actually going in cleanly and ending it all, I'm not very worried about. In fact, considering the absolute certainty of death one way or another, and the terrible nature of most other deaths, merging instantly with a planet seems like a damn good way to go and perhaps I hope it does happen one day.

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It varies between dropzones, and between people, and depending on the weather...

Most DZs will do packing courses, which have a fee (£30-50), and I think you can expect to get a day of focused tuition and progress towards your packing cert for this. Otherwise, you can try to collar an experienced packer on a quietish day and ask them to show you how to pack; they may well be too busy packing though!

Regarding briefs for CH2, JM1 etc, I think that most DZ instructors actively want people to progress, they are just pretty busy quite often - if you can find a small group of people that need the same brief, then it will make sense for them to give the brief to everyone all at once. Again, quieter days are better I imagine. Also, some DZs do progression weekends, where the focus is on getting the briefs necessary for certain licences.

I've just started working through my CH2 stuff, and my impression is that you just have to put yourself forward and ask for stuff - it's a bit different from student status in that the impetus is on you to seek out progression, rather than being told what to do next. However it's probably not a good idea to pester the instructors constantly when they're busy chasing around with 100 tandems etc!

As I say, I've only just started on this road too, so others may have a different perspective
[edit to add: I don't think there are many formal fees involved for things like ground briefs, as the instructors are generally at the DZ "on duty" and being paid for being there, but I could be wrong!]

Thanks. I've just seen that Hibaldstow have a JM1/CH2 day next week, and a packing course the day after. £10 and £25, respectively - not bad.