fred

Just a couple of newbie stories.

At the first jump course, at a Cessna-182 dropzone, every student was dropped (on S/L) on their own pass. The jumpmaster would spot, give commands ("Put your feet out.", "Get out and hang.", "Go!"). After a few jumps of this, they'd say, "Why don't you spot this one." I was nervous, but it wasn't a big deal. With a single pass per student in a cessna, if you get out somewhere near the dropzone, you'll be fine.

Switched to AFF at Skydive Arizona, on Skyvans and Otters, where we followed the light. On one jump, the JM looked out, and asked the pilot to do a second pass (it was probably a 180, but I didn't have the experience at the time to know the difference). That triggered in my mind that (a) you should probably look before you get out, and (b) it's okay to ask for a turnaround.

Back home, at the Cessna DZ, on my Pre-A solo jumps, I was last out. After watching the first 3 solo jumpers go out, I spotted, and I was farther away than I'd ever been from that DZ. I asked the pilot to do another run. He did a hard rudder and bank--probably hoping I'd fall out--and said, "What's wrong with that?" But did the 180. After further jumps, I'm pretty sure he was right. I was way underestimating how far I can fly to get back.

Fast forward a few years after a break, after getting a refresher and jumping solo again, I do my first two-way (since the break, so no beer, right?). I watch the first two get out, and then start my count to 7 for separation, before I start climbing out (winds were a little high). I failed to take into account that 'time taken to climb out' is part of that 7-second delay. Since I am somewhat clumsy, and since I probably count slower under stress, we were pretty far out before we actually left (though, I still think the initial spot was probably long and crosswind). Still managed to make it back in time for a downwind, crosswind, and upwind landing. But pilot and other jumper say that they were yelling, "Go!" though I didn't hear them.

My point? None really. But these are some of the lessons I've had in learning how to spot.

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After 64 jumps, I still notice when I'm in my landing pattern; the 'Automatic' pilot sort of clicks off and I'm left holding the toggles having to calculate the landing process all over again.

Hee. I'm an analytical thinker, and while my landings are solid, my landing pattern and accuracy need work. And throughout the landing pattern, I feel like a GPS constantly announcing, "Recalculating".

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Sorry but loving what you doing and loving teaching isn't enough . . probably necessary but not sufficient.

If this is honestly true for you it means that you don't have the love of teaching and that's OK in my world ... but please don't say this like its the ultimate truth because is not and people who love teaching will be offended. And no, I'm not talking about the instructor who coached detached from behind the glass.

I agree with the poster. Having a love of teaching is not sufficient to be a good teacher. Neither is being good at what you're trying to teach. These are three separate skills/traits (doing, teaching, and enjoying teaching). But certainly, I've had some teachers who loved teaching, who weren't very good at it.

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What works for me (but for you it might be different) is to 'plane out' using only the slightest toggle input (shoulder level) and then gently finish the flare as far as my arms will go down. Again, do not do it this exact way! Find out together with the canopy coach what works for you and stick to that. He'll see you land, I don't
Is it really a 2-stage flare? Since getting off radio, I've always done more of a "continuous" flare. There's no real distinction between when I'm planing out and when I'm bleeding speed. Would it be better if I tried to divide it into these two moves? I would like to lose more horizontal speed in low winds, but don't really know how or if it's possible. Should I flare more aggressively at first to level off, then pause, and work on the second stage to lose more forward speed?

I've had great landings, but usually have to run it out.

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Seen a few uses by static line JM's though!

That's why I thought we had one... to cutaway people being dragged from the plane, or to cutaway a rig on an injured person lying on the ground. I don't expect it to be much use in freefall.

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If you flip a coin once, your chances of Heads is 50/50. Now let's say you flip 39 times, and each time it comes up Heads. So what's the chance of Heads on the 40th flip? Answer: 50/50. Each individual flip is its own statistically unique event.
Okay, so that's statistics 101, and the bane of the roulette player.

But what if, before you flip the coin 39 times, you want to place a bet that at least one of those flips will be heads. Suddenly, your odds get a hole lot better (or worse, depending on your perspective). And certainly, you can see that it's much more likely with 39 flips than with 390, right?

So, let's take your odds of 1:90000; let's improve them to 1:100000 to make the math clearer. This is a .001% risk of a fatality on single jump, normalized for all other variables (see footnote). Now take a jumper who is going to make 500 jumps that season. His odds of surviving are (.99999)^500, which is about 99.5%. Or, about a 5:1000 chance of a fatality.

Your math comes back if he's jumped 499 times this season, and he's looking at his 500th jump. At that point, he still has the .001% chance.

Footnote: Of course, all other variables aren't equal. There's clearly a multivariate curve related to experience, currency, and other variables that aren't as quantitative (swooping, big ways, wingsuits, cameraflying, ability to plf, basic judgement, etc). And you could get as specific as you want, but when talking about the general safety of skydiving, it's pretty clear: It's safer to jump once than it is to jump many times. And if you jump a great deal, it's particularly unsafe, because eventually you will bump into the "even when you do everything right, things can go wrong."

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So I've got close to 300 jumps. My gear and car got stolen a month ago. A very generous person has been loaning me his gear.

I used to stare up at the sky every time it was blue, disparately wishing I was jumping. Not anymore.

I don't know if the love is fading a little, if it's just the lack of my own gear or if this is just a normal after 300. I know I could downsize from the 170 quite comfortably but I've been resisting that since I know there is still lots of unexplored capacity on a canopy of this size. Maybe the love will return when insurance actually gets around to covering my gear.

I'm with ya. I love jumping, but lately it feels like a chore. Assuming the weather is good (it's been spotty at best around here lately), I have to drive an hour to the dropzone. Then I have to wait an hour or two to get on a load, which means I get to crouch uncomfortably in a cramp aircraft for a half hour while we get to altitude in order to get a couple minutes of fun.

Sometimes, it doesn't seem worth it.

But I do still stare up at the sky looking at clouds, thinking, "There's a hole, we could be jumping." If I gave it up, I think I'd miss it dearly.

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imbeave2 shared a story which in my opinion showed poor judgement. The fact that the organisation he jumps for allowed him to do it is beyond belief

What exactly are you upset about? That he took an elderly person on a tandem at all? Or that he didn't know the guy's exact age?

Forgive the newbie and way-missing-the-focus-of-the-video question, but what kind of plane is that in the video?

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Buying a CD, purchasing a download from iTunes, yadayada doesn't constitute any sort of a licence to put the music to video. This has been discussed ad nauseum in the Photography forum with links to dozens of sources.
Agreed. This also makes 90% of Youtube videos a copyright violation. It also means that if you buy a ringtone for your cell phone, and you get a call while walking through the mall, you may need to pay a licensing fee. It also means that if you sing, "Happy Birthday" at your daughters next birthday party, that's probably a public performance and you could be sued.

I wasn't arguing that the use of a song in a tandem video was legal. I was merely arguing that it may be more legal and/or ethical than representing that a video or image is your IP.

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Doesn't matter whether the song is ancillary or the video was edited around it; it's still a copyright violation.

No, it does matter, and the Supreme Court has ruled so, and it has since been codified into law. It is one of the factors to be considered when considering a fair use defense. See Title 17, section 107.

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At least half the DZ's in the US are violating copyright laws that in terms of legal value carry far more damage than any image Skyride may have illegally used.

I agree with this. In legal value, the sum of all dropzones' videos far, far outweighs anything Skyride may have done. However, it's the actual cases, not the theoretical ones, that really matter, and in this case, such a suit against skyride could work, especially if we buy into your theory that any use is a copyright violation.

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If Skyride uses stock music in their videos (I've seen a couple that do), then they're fine. Just as they've purchased a few photographs from stock agencies, they may be running totally legit now.

They might be running legit as far as copyright goes. They're not running legit as far as mispresentation goes, as they are still pretending that they run a dropzone in my home town, while I'm very certain that no dropzone within 3 hours takes their coupons.

***BTW, FWIW, EXIF and other macrometadata can be fairly easily stripped from a file making it non-referenceble/traceable to the originating source.

What does this have to do with anything? There are better ways to prove an image's source than the metadata in the file.

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I wonder if you(or anyone) would feel as strongly about a 3rd party using someone else's property if it was something other than a photo. Something like.....oh I don't know....maybe someone else's music used on a tandem DVD. Not that anyone would do that.

Ouch. Excellent point.

However, there are a couple distinctions:

(1) Skyride appears to claim these pictures and videos as their own, and potential customers are likely to think that this is the case. Whereas with a tandem video, if I hear "Garden Grove" playing, I, as a customer, will make no assumption that videographer also has a successful rock band. This example is apropos, as after finding an AFF skydiving video that used this song (and "Same in the End"), I actually went out and bought a Sublime DVD (because I live under a rock and had never really been exposed to them before), resulting in a sale for the original artist. Skyride gives no credit, and no potential to the copyright owner to get paid.

(2) For the song example, the music serves as a secondary feature of the product (the DVD). It certainly improves the product, but doesn't constitute a major factor in the product itself. In fair use evaluations, they'd refer to this as "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole". In the tandem video example, the substantiality is minimal, even if the amount is high. I'd argue that in the Skyride case, the substantiality is high, as they are saying, "This is what you will do here." It's used as evidence that the place exists, whereas in the tandem video, it is pretty insubstantial which song they choose to use.

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Second, I mean i'm not ready to jump with a full camera setup...having that on your helmet vs an iPhone on your chest strap is a biiiiit different.

I think you're falling blunder to one of the misunderstandings low jumpers (myself included) have about flying a camera. You think that having a camera on your helmet means you could hurt yourself on opening, through snags or riser slap or just having that extra weight on your helmet.

These are valid reasons that a low jumper shouldn't jump with a camera, and they serve as a very effective deterrent ("You might break your neck on opening").

However, the better reason is a lot harder to grasp. A camera, even an iphone on your chest, distracts you. It gives you one more thing to think about when you really need all your attention on keeping you safe. The thought, "This might make awesome video" may just fleet through your mind, just long enough to make you do something stupid.

Besides, you really want video of yourself, not other people, so why not buy a slightly more experienced jumper a ticket to record you while you freefall and practice basic skills. You can buy a lot of jump tickets for others for the price of replacing your iPhone.

I'm also a low jumper who would love to have a camera, but at this point, I've decided that the experts are probably right and that I should wait awhile. You probably should too.

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He has been offered a discount on future purchases that mean I will be paying for a percentage of his next order. He had already been given a very large discount to begin with and he understands that. maybe that is why he has been so good about it all.

It seems to me that it was his current order that was screwed up, repeatedly, by you and your suppliers. So offering him a discount on future orders is completely self-serving.

Back on my 30ish jump, I was spiralling down on a navigator 260, I thought, "What if I let this toggle all the way up and try to spin the other way." I got to look behind me (about 180° line twist), but that was about it. Still scared the crap out of me.

On my current canopy, I suspect I could spin myself up pretty good if I tried.

A little geek never hurt anybody:

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Obi-Wan: "Remember, a [skydiver] can feel the [wind] flowing through him."
Luke: "You mean it controls your actions?"
Obi-Wan: "Partially. But it also obeys your commands."

The wind will do what it wants to, and what it wants to do is find the quickest way past you. You want to hold an arch so that the "quickest way" around you is even on both sides. But you don't necessarily want to fight it, as that's the path to the dark side.

What you want to do is let the force/wind flow around you and through you, and influence it to make it do what you want. This involves a balance between relaxing and controlling.

Symmetrical is good. Asymmetrical is bad.

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My girl and I are getting ready to do our first AFF August 8th.

For those (most of you I'm guessing) who have done your AFF, what is the ONE piece of advice you wish you'd either gotten or paid attention to before your jump?

I don't know if this applies to AFF, since I started with static line, but one thing I'm really glad I'd found out:
You can do your second jump that same day.

A lot of students go out to do their first jump, take the class, and then leave. This is not the best way to get into the sport. You won't remember much from your first jump, so plan on landing, taking a break for an hour or two, eating a sandwich (that you might have to bring with you), and then doing a second jump.

It's great the first time, and even better the second.

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Thanks for the suggestions. I have already heard enough to know that people do set their alarm altitudes up differently. I see that some set them 500 ft higher, some set them 500 ft lower and some set them at the altitudes. I still haven't decided what will be the best for me but I have decided one thing for sure. I will definitely be using all three alarms. Again, thanks for your suggestion.

As a relatively new jumper, I consider my audible to be a tertiary backup. My eyes are supposed to be my primary method for altitude awareness, if not very accurate. My analog altimeter is my secondary, and I use it for my decision making. My audible is the third backup.

I set it 500ft below the altitude for which I want to break off and pull. If I haven't already done what it's telling me to do, then I made a mistake, and I make my wife give me spankings as a reprimand.

I won't set it low for the decision alarm, though. I've heard that protrack's beep under an opening canopy once, and I never want to hear it again. I might even bump it up a few hundred feet.

I always figured students kinda learned backward.

That is, the first problem they'll encounter is going being too high on final approach. For this, they should have a big forgiving canopy and make S-turns. And they should be landing in a low-traffic area, since their S-turns are pretty unpredictable.

As they get better at figuring out when to make the turn to final, they'll start figuring out their turn to crosswind. At this point, they can making sharp, deep turns or wider flatter turns to get that entry into final approach right. They should still be jumping a forgiving canopy and landing into a student area. Eventually, they'll be making a smooth 90degree turn into final and not require S-turns.

Similarly for the crosswind turn and the downwind turn.

Of course, this learning happens somewhat in parallel, but it's definitely easier to predict where you're going to end up the closer you are to the ground. From there, your experience builds backward.

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Which brings up another point for the OP....how's your tracking? Diving- or flat-tracking? In the big scheme of things, time is not the issue, altitude is.

I suspect I'm diving more than flat tracking, but how does a low-jumper know? I'm still concentrating on staying on heading.

I'm not very coordinated, and still very much a newb. I got my A a few years ago, and had to take a break, so I'm just getting back into it. While I'm quite confident in my solo abilities (My landings/flares are great, my accuracy has rapidly improved), I'm working on my skills and confidence when it comes to jumping with another person.

I'm just trying to be safe and predictable while I get back into it and improve my skills.

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1) 1500 ft above deployment altitude (4500 ft in your example) see SIM Cat G
2) Young jumpers, 5-6 seconds. Experienced different. Horizontal separation is the key. Earlier mention was made about tracking perpendicular to jump run...always a good idea.
3) Young jumpers, 3 seconds. Experienced different.

As per USPA SIM Cat A:
1) 1000 ft
2) 600 ft
3) 300 ft

As tetra316 mentioned, these rules are general. The size and shape of the DZ can, and will, alter these numbers.
Thanks. I know these are reference numbers, but I wanted to refresh my memory on them. I knew the general advice was spelled out somewhere.

Thanks for all the input.

It's a Cessna DZ, so we have the benefit of knowing what everybody else is doing, where they're opening, and what their skill level is before a jump.

I love my new-to-me Sabre2. It turns very quickly, and flairs like a champ (high enough so that I have to ask my rigger if my brake lines are long enough, seems to level out and swing me under canopy much higher than I'm used to, possibly too high so I need to look for tail deflection during level flight). Fast, but doesn't seem to spin up when doing a hard turn one direction followed by another.

Two good landings in about 3mph winds. The first one within 10m of the target, and barely had to take a step. The second one, I began the flare a little high so I wasn't able to bleed off as much speed, and I had to run it out.

Still need to play with stalls and risers, but definitely a fantastic improvement over my DZ's rental gear. (not to mention the fit of the rig!)

It's clearly both.

I play tennis weekly. Tennis is a sport. To me it's a hobby.

Same with skydiving.

The bigger question, though, is do you consider it exercise?

I know they're just guidelines or rules of thumb, but I was definitely taught some guidelines as a student that I don't quite remember.

I've tried searches, but I'm not finding the rules of thumb. Help me out by filling in the x's:

During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.
3) After tracking, you should "flare" for x seconds, wave-off, then pull.

During the approach:
1) You should start your downwind run at x ft.
2) You should turn crosswind at x ft.
3) You should turn upwind at x ft.

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Thanks! Thread over.

And you decided...?

I've tried to search the forums and google, but I haven't come up with anything. I'm finally going to be jumping my first rig. Having been called out for jumping a rental that I didn't do enough research on, I'm wondering what stuff I should do on the first few jumps.

Obviously I'll be opening high--I plan to be under canopy by 5000'--but what are the things you'd recommend to put the new canopy (that I expect to be jumping for a long time) through its paces?

Most of the stuff I plan on is off the A License Card, practiced above 2000':

Practice Flares, lots of them.

A 90 degree turn to the right, followed by a 180 degree turn to the left.

Stalling the canopy.

Braked/Flat Turns.

Rear riser turns and rear riser flair.

Front riser turns.

(I don't expect to be able to fit this all into one jump)

What else do you do to familiarize yourself with a new canopy?

This past Sunday I made a number of mistakes.

It all started jumping a new canopy. I'd jumped the Triathalon 210 earlier in the day, and had a great landing. For the second jump, a less experienced jumper wanted the 210, so I took the Manta 200, which I hadn't jumped before.

New canopy, so I opened high, and did a lot of practice flairs. After about the 8th or 9th practice flair up high, realizing that it didn't behave nearly as well as that triathalon, I also noticed that it was taking a lot more effort, and my arms were tired.

With few canopies in the air, I decided I wanted to save myself a walk back on landing, so rather than the big wide open newbie area, I planned a course for the smaller "experienced jumpers" area (Mistake #1). I thought I had a good idea of the pattern to follow, though it took me a bit over the taxiway before my crosswind and turn to final (Mistake #2). Winds had been dead all day, so I completely neglected to look at the flag (Mistake #3), which would have shown me that winds had picked up a bit since takeoff. ]

Well, I took a soft breaked turn to crosswind, since I thought I needed a bit more distance to land where I wanted. Then I did a 90 degree turn to final. And this canopy lost a lot more altitude than I'd expected. Suddenly, instead of looking out onto a nice soft grass landing area, I thought I was going to land smack dab in the middle of the taxiway (Mistake #4/Inexperience showing). In fact, I didn't make it that far. On the near side of the taxiway, there's a small (3 ft?) drainage ditch, and I came in right toward that.

As it is, the practice flairs paid off. As did a good PLF (I was nervous about actually being able to PLF, but the dirt/grass stains on my cloths and the rig seem to suggest that I did a reasonable job of spreading out the impact).

In the end, the only thing that hurt was my pride. I like standup landings because they show that I did a lot of things right. I like PLF's because they show that I did something right at the end, despite having made mistakes earlier on.