DSBlueskies

They should teach you how to plf in your first jump course. I'm sure it's still part of the standard course. You just might want to make sure they understand it's more important to you to learn how to do one because of your knee problems. Like one other person mentioned a big canopy and good wind conditions are a must. It was a long time before I would jump in no wind days.

Sounds like you are off to a good start and gathering as much information as you can.

Blue Skies

Interesting thread here. I always gravitate towards other stories of ACL problems. I am 10 years post op on ACL reconstruction of my right leg. When I blew the left one I opted for just arthoscopic surgery to remove the torn cartiledge and left the ACL alone. I've got two hundred jumps since my last surgery and so far so go. I have more problems with my reconstructed knee. Lots of arthritis. I spend half my life at the gym too, sounds like everybody does. I was told that the hamstring is the best fill in for an acl. So if I've only got a few minutes to spend at the gym I do hamstring curls. Plyometric exercises are really good too. They are reptative motion exercises and great for regaining balance and agility. I still say the best thing I've learned is how to do a plf really, really well. Saved my knees more than once. Of course I jump a big canopy too.

Anyway.....this is all pretty interesting. I'm hoping to never have my other acl reconstructed. For me I just don't think it was necessary. Time will tell I guess. I've been jumping without one since February of 04.

Oh, and I wear ACL braces on both knees. One to protect my graph and one to compensate for lack of one. There might be a lot to idea of it being all in my head, but that's fine. I need help there too.
Mine are custom made CTI's and cost about $1,400 a piece. Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned.

What is the nature of your knee problems? I've ripped out both acl's. Had one reconstructed and one not. Had more surgeries than I can count. I jump with acl braces on both legs. Forget the butt slide.........learn to plf. The plf is one of the most important tools for any skydiver with knee problems. Actually it's an important tool for anybody. You'll hear a lot of people say they are a landing technique from the past and round parachutes. I think they're wrong and you'll find lots of threads on here that agree with me. When you get into skydiving think about a canopy course. Like Scott Millers in Deland. He is a big supporter of learning and mastering the plf. No better endorsement than that I would say.

Good luck and oh, invest in some good knee braces. I never jump without mine.

If baked beans are on the menu for the bbq Grant's snoring will be the least of your problems!

Hey Dave, we haven't met but come on down and bring a pack of your friends. It should be a great weekend! Fun is always on the agenda at Delmarva.

Blue Skies,
D

Hey, Do you have any idea what time on Friday? The weather is looking iffy for that day. Just wondered if you got an update.

D

Why don't you take a run up to Cross Keys and then take a look at Skydive Delmarva in Laurel. Not as close as Cross Keys, but it's in Delaware. Lots of good people there and something is always going on. They are having a CASA boogie there this weekend. Might be a good time to check the place out.

Blue Skies

I'll be there for sure. We are planning to take Friday off and make another 3-day weekend out of it.

Just do me one favor..........leave the coconut bra at home!

I jump with one knee that has had ACL reconstruction and one knee I don't have an ACL. I blew my second knee about a year ago and like you I didn't want to go a year without skydiving. I was told by the professionals that it was very unlikely that I would get even 75% use back of my knee without reconstructive surgery. Well, it has been over a year and I would say I have about 85 to 90% use of my knee without surgery. Just goes to show you what hard work and a lot of determination will do. I spend a lot of time at the gym, rehab is my life and I PLF most of my landings. As long as I keep my knees bent when I land I have no problems. If I try to stick my leg out straight and hit the ground that way it will go out on me. I wear braces on both knees and I went through Scott Millers canopy class to get the best advice on how to land with my problems. I've been jumping this way for over a year and haven't had any injuries or problems.

When you can jump from a 24 inch step you'll know your leg is strong enough to take a landing. Until then, stay on the ground. It took me about two months post surgery for cartilege damage to work up to that 24 inch step.

As others have said, it's your call and they have lots of options now for ACL reconstruction. By the way, having my ACL replaced on my other leg didn't prevent me from having arthritis. I'm post surgery on that leg about 10 years and the arthritis gets worse every year.

Good luck,
DS

I can't quite agree with the idea that all complete acl tears have to be replaced. The human body is an amazing thing and we have several ligaments and tendons that compensate for a missing acl. I'm in the gym four times a week making sure my hamstrings, quads, and calf muscles stay in shape for just that reason. Premature arthritis is sometimes inevitable with an injury sever enough to rupture your acl. I've torn out both of mine. One I had replaced and one not. The one I had replaced is going on about 8 years now and I have terrible arthritis in that knee. The other one has been about a year and it feels great. But I have no illusions, it will be full of arthritis in a few years too. ACL replacement wouldn't have avoided that for me. Another factor is age. If your young they usually do replace your ACL for all the reasons you mentioned. But for some of us total knee replacement is a very near future reality and replacing an ACL won't prevent that. I skydive with braces on both legs, spend lots of time in the gym, and pray God gives me at least 10 more good years on these knees!

I guess it all boils down to individual circumstances and I'm glad you were able to get yours fixed and it works better for you. Learn how to do good PLF's. They can really save the knees in a bad landing situation.

Blue skies,
DS

Pylometric exercises are repatative exercises that work at getting your muscles to react faster. They help with coordination. I started out on a trampoline jumping without taking my feet off the trampoline and then worked up to jumping on alternate legs and back and forth. Stuff like that. As you know anyone with ACL issues is usually very afraid to jump on anything, much less a trampoline. Then I worked up to jumping up to a four inch step and jumping off twenty times. Then I worked up to an 8 inch step and so on. My muscles had forgotten what is was to jump. I haven't done that since my first ACL injury in 95. My timing was off, my muscles didn't react fast enough. Now plyo exercises are part of my normal exercise routine. They have really done wonders for me and I thought they might be helpful to you.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Blue skies,
DS

Hey Tig,

Glad you are up and around and three months out will put you back in time for the best part of the season! That is something to be happy about.

Listen to your therapist and really look into those plyometric exercises. I swear by them. My doctor told me because of my age and my knee history ( I have lots of arthritis) that I shouldn't be skydiving. I went to a great therapist and worked hard and I'm back better than ever. Doctors don't know everything, but listen to what they tell you about how long to lay off. They usually have that right. You don't want to risk reinjury. Especially with all the problems you've been having.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

Blues,
DS

Thanks for the response. I think I got good advice when I was told to wait until I could handle the 2 foot bench. I think it makes much more sense to get strong enough so in case you do have a hard landing you can handle it. I had a few people tell me to learn how to do the "butt slide" and then I wouldn't have to worry about it. I've made about 8 jumps since my surgery and most of them were PLF landings and I didn't hurt anything, but my new jump suit. I think you all are very smart for making people more aware of the need to be proficient at a good PLF. That's what has kept me in the sport.

DS

I find your PLF procedures very interesting and I have a question. Do you ever have anyone in your classes that can't jump down from the tailgate because of pervious injuries and what do you do with them? I ask this because I have recently recovered from knee surgery and before I could jump again I was told I had to be able to do a PLF from a 2 ft bench and if my leg couldn't handle it then it probably couldn't handle a landing. I spent a couple of months in rehab and was eventually able to jump from a two foot bench, but it wasn't easy and took a lot of work. I was just curious if anyone else had a rule on how high off the ground their students had to be able to do a PLF.

DS

I guess this is another highly contested issue in the skydiving world, but I agree with you. Learning to do a good PLF is essential and I feel if your knees can't handle it you might want rethink your choice of sports. But again that is just my opinion.

DS

Oh wow, I'm so sorry to hear about that. That has always been my biggest fear with the butt slide idea. I hope you aren't out for too long and again I'm really sorry to hear about your bad news.

On the other thread you started a physical therapist who skydives had joined in and I bet they could be a lot of help with ideas on rehab. The greatest thing I discovered this last injury was plyometric exercises. They are just wonderful at getting your muscles more adept at agility. First you work on range of motion, then strength, and then move to the plyometrics. My last visit with her she gave me a maintenance program I will be doing for the rest of my life. It would be really helpful to get some advice from a physical therapist who skydives. Maybe you could go back to your last thread and send them some questions.

Again sorry to hear about your woes and trust me those PLF's come pretty easy after all the practice from the plyo exercises.

Hope you are back in the air soon,
DS

Ugh, that hurts my knees just thinking about it. We jump an otter where I am too and when we are on jump run I just stand up and bend over a little. I could never get on my knees. I can't even do that in church anymore
Good luck,
DS

Hello again,

Those canopy classes are great and I'm glad to hear you already thought of that. By the way, not trying to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, but I talked to my physical therapist today about your idea of jumping up to a treadmill. She said that was a bad idea.....mostly because now your are dealing with two moving objects, yourself and the treadmill. When you skydive your moving, but the ground isn't. She said with two moving objects you've just doubled your risk for instability. Just thought I would pass on the info. You have to make up your own mind of course. Talk to your doctor about a knee brace, too. I think they are wonderful and I wouldn't jump without mine. I look kind of funny walking around with both legs braced, but that's the great thing about being 40! You just don't care about those things anymore.

Stay safe,
DS

I know from my own rehab experience that jumping up to something takes a lot more strength then jumping off of something, but I guess you won't know until you try. Have you ever thought about taking a canopy course? I decided I couldn't get back in the air until I had taken one. I don't know where you are, but these classes are popping up all over. I took Scott Millers course down in Deland and it was great. Gave me more confidence and now I know what I need to work on. I also perfected my plf's there and that has helped a lot. I have always been afraid of the "butt slide". I don't want to mess up my back or catch a heel and end up breaking my leg instead. You might check at your DZ and see if they know of any canopy classes around. I know Scott travels too and might be coming somewhere close to you.

Take care,
DS

Jumping onto a moving treadmill? Wow, that sounds kind of tricky. Is that an exercise your physical therapist gave you? I know my physical therapist gave me lots of great exercises to do, but I never heard of that one. I'd be really careful! When I was rehabing after this latest injury my therapist was great and got me up to jumping off a 24 inch step. Which was quite a big deal for me. Take it slow and make sure to get all the professional advice you can. Are you going to have your ACL repaired or just live with it? I've decided to just live with it this time. So far so good and the braces really help a lot. Again, best of luck.

Hello,

Just discovered this thread today. I jump with no ACL in my left leg and a reconstructed one on my right. I use two Robo braces when I jump. I've found that what works for me is a good PLF. Maybe not the answer for everyone. Also, I took a canopy class and have improved my landings a great deal. Doing good landings on a bigger canopy and good expensive braces are the only way to go.

Best of luck.