msmithd8769

You know you're a wingsuit flyer when:

- the DZO threatens to start charging you an extra fuel surcharge for your jump tickets because you are constantly taking the jump run way, way out after everybody else in the plane has left

- you speculate about "what if DB Cooper had a wingsuit?"

Yo Jari, hope you had a good one.....

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It's a whole new world than back when we were all jumping mavericks and furies and cruislites and altitude=7500/8000.

canopies open slower and have more violent mals
students aren't comfortable at lower altitudes
few know how to spot
even belly flyers think 4.5K is separation altitude

I don't begrudge anyone being uncomfortable with lower pack openings anymore. But I still like to tease about it. But the new canopy technologies are pretty good justification (i've adjusted upwards since trading from my sabre to my stiletto). the other stuff? It's just the way it is.

That said, I personally have zero issue with launching and a couple points from 4 with people I'm comfortable with.

You're not kidding; things have definitely changed in the last 15 years especially. I was out of the sport for about 9-10 years (for various reasons) from 1993-2002 and got back into it in '03. Boy were there changes!! ZP canopies and pro-packing for one; pro-packing was just starting to come around in the early 90s. We used to rag on people (good-naturedly of course) who were trying it; we called it "trash packing" back then, remember?

Also everyone now wearing those face-shield astronaut helmets. But I'm still trying to keep the old traditions alive; I still wear my frap hat (except I do have a Velocity helmet that I wear for Birdman jumps). And I jump a 7-cell Eagle (F-111) canopy for my wingsuit jumps which I, of course, flat pack. Boy you should see newer jumpers reaction when they see me flat-packing!! It's like they've discovered some lost species of animal long thought to be extinct!! It's pretty funny... "What is that you're doing??" is usually the first thing they ask me.

But, yeah, I think probably the most unfortunate (saddest?) development would be, in my opinion, the fact that people do not know how to spot anymore as you said. Students today get a cursory (maybe 2-3 minutes) treatment of it in the AFF first jump course and that's pretty much the extent of it. It's a skill that they never develop.

That was never more eveident than at our DZ last season when our Otter was out and we had a couple weekends where we just had to do with Cessnas. Except for a couple or three of us "old-timers" there was really no one on the DZ that had ever done any spotting before to feel comfortable doing it or even attempting it. Needless to say it made for some interesting loads for sure ....

Ahhh, but I digress (too late for that eh?). But 4-way from 4 grand! Cool!!! How many points you think you can do rehmwa? Let's get together sometime and have a little "4 grand Scrambles" ok? We'll really freak some people out!!!!

Mike

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"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."

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Just wanted some feed back on launching exits at H&P altitudes.

Launching around normal breakoff altitude is fine if everyone is heads up. Launch and leave. If newer and you still tumble once in a while, then I'd hold off launching anything unless at least a little above normal breakoff - 3, 3.5, 4 depending on the team.

{{But I'm originally from an old Cessna DZ, I suspect many would take issue with what some of us consider a 'real' H&P altitude number - and, in today's training world, they are probably right - we break at 3.5, so a 4way launch from 3 or 3.5 doesn't make us nervous at all, a solo H&P from 2 or 2.5 is what I consider normal H&P

But if it jazzes the team, great. Use that tension to your benefit in your training and remember what it feels like when the exits go great under the perceived pressure.

Be safe

I agree. I have no problem with doing 4-way exits from 4 grand; it can be good practice and allow you to concentrate on the exit itself. I too cut my teeth at a 182 DZ many years ago and our normal jump altitude was usually only 8 or 9 grand. So we routinely broke off at 3 on 4-way jumps. That's plenty of time for 4 jumpers to get adequate separation and deploy and be open between 2 to 2500. Granted, it's not something that would probably be recommended for four people with 50 or so jumps just learning RW but for experienced jumpers a 4-way exit at 4 grand gives you plenty of time to fly out the exit, work your slots, and come off the hill and still be able to break off at a safe altitude. However, as has also been said, if you seem to be funneling your exits more often than not then it might be better to give yourself a bit more altitude until you become more consistent.......

Would like to get some info on what an average glide ratio should be in a wingsuit. I realize it is dependent upon some variables such as suit type and how effective your body position is but I am figuring that a 2:1 glide ratio should be a good average. Would you folks agree with that? I know I have covered really good distances on some of my jumps but want to get some other input.

I fly a BirdMan GTi.

Thanks....

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This may help throw some light on the experiences people have had with regards to flat spins while flying a wingsuit (Read Matt's post from the other "Flat Spin on SM.com" thread). This will keep all the experiences in one place and we can add a link to and from the other thread.

Please post as much detail as you can remember.

Include these details(suggestions for any I have missed are welcome)

1) Wingsuit(Make, Model and Year )
2) Reason for Flat spin(exit, bump, acrobatics, etc.)
3) How long did it take you to recover?
4) Did you cut the wings away?
5) How much 'G-Force' do you think you experienced during this? was it easy to move your hands, did you feel dizzy or lightheaded..yadda, yadda.

Kris.

No sh*t, there I was, thought I was gonna die....
Very radical back-to-earth spin on about my 35th wingsuit jump.
It was a BirdMan GTi suit and I had just come out of a front loop which seemed fine and I seemed to have stabled right out from the loop. All of a sudden it was like an unseen hand flipped me on my back and the spin started. Kept getting progressively worse with lots of Gs (could feel my helmet pulling up from the centrifugal force). Could not get out of spin, cutaway the arm cables which did not help but I was low on altitude to begin with so didn't have a lot of time to mess with it anyway; also couldn't see my altimeter. My internal clock told me I was out of time and I dumped my main while still in the spin and was under canopy right at about 2 grand. Nice to know my internal clock is still calibrated ! I use an Eagle 7-cell for my wingsuit jumps so although I had severe line twists it was no problem kicking out of them. A wild ride folks......

_____________________________
"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."

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> You know that in theory , it is possible to build a
> belly flying formation so large that it will move so slow
> that no one has to pull.

The first time I heard this theory was at the Gulch in 1975.

We were building these kind of dynamic motion things and
Seattle was leaning more towards big, very floaty blots.
(Big was like 20.)

We heard that someone up there had calculated that they
could land a 172 way wedge. We immediately started
scheming about skateboards on our chests and some kind
of nose wheel.

A few beers later in the night someone pointed out that if
we could land a 172 way we should be able to dirt dive
a 300 way and float up to altitude.

It did seem to make sense at the time, but the desert has
that effect on people.

Skr

Hehehehehehe.... Yeah we used to discuss such things back in the early 80s when the 60 and 72 ways were the world records. Was neat to speculate on such stuff, especially over a few dozen beers or so.....

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And just think...he liked the content of the book. Can you imagine what he would have written if he didn't like it?

The personal attacks were so unnecessary. It really took away from what he was trying to convey. I'm sorry that review ever made the magazine, but anyone reading it will be put off by the reviewer's attitude. The outcome will be that the reviewer looks bad, and Scott Campos will sell more books. The more books sold...the more people helped. That was the goal in writing the book the in first place. It's all good in the end.

The information contained in the book is priceless. It's a resource that I refer to often.

I agree totally. I've read both the book and the review in Skydiving. Yes there were some grammatical and spelling typos but the information in the book was excellent and covered the complete range of topics relating to wingsuits. Great work Scott!!

Hmmm; let's see, skydive or go to college. Tough choice but one must set priorities and skydiving wins hands-down . But really, hope you are saving at least a little for college....

Welcome Kim.....

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aww PFL's are not that bad! Just make sure your wearing boots to help you ankles.

Absolutely right. Gotta have them jump boots on. And I had to keep saying to my self "This is fun, this is fun, this is FUN..."

_____________________________
"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."

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if i had a wife i'd have sold her into slavery to support the hobby

Quoting John Belushi (aka Joliet Jake) from The Blues Brothers: "Your women, how much for your women? I want to buy your wife!!"

_____________________________
"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."

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But oh how much fun PLF's were under those round babies. Yeah right! PLF my ass. Hope you don't break something on impact!

Yeah, you know it! I remember one of my landings under a 35 footer as I pounded in trying to PLF in a dirty plowed field on a hot summer day. And I'm sure as I laid there on my back with all this gear on including an old motorcycle helmet, trying to catch my breath, partially covered by my trusty old T10, and watching the cloud of dust that I generated swirl up about me that I must have looked like that poor guy at the end of the skydiving sequence in the movie Fandango!!

Yep, those were the days when skydivers were men and the women knew it!! Yee-haaa.....

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'cuz I'm gonna deplete all my money after AFF

Ouch, AFF..... If I had to do That I don't Know if I ever could have become a jumper. I got my Licence on the Dope Rope for less that $400

$400? cmon shaun, we know that static line is cheap, but not quite that cheap. I believe the figure you are looking for is $500, which is still pretty damn good if you ask me.

Well, it depends how long ago it was done I guess. Back when I started jumping but in 1981 the first jump course (SL) was $69 with subsequent student jumps at $19 a piece. And the normal jump sequence for that student progression in those days normally was three jumps at each delay level. So you would have to do your minimum of five SLs which included three good DRCPs then you went onto freefall for three hop 'n pops, then three 5 second delays, three tens, three 15s etc till you graduated which usually took in the neighborhood of at least about 25 jumps. And try doing it with old surplus military gear that weighed about 500 lbs (well, maybe not quite THAT much), chest mounted reserve with shot and a half capewell releases and an olive drab 35' T10 canopy with wooden toggles. Ahhh, those were the good ol' days .....

_____________________________
"And when the prophet shall arise who appeareth as a bird then the time of the Lord draweth nigh and the flock shall rule the earth."