SurfFlite

I still have a few used beginner boards laying around that I used as rentals. If you decide to go for it and need a board give me a call. 480-2 ninenine-8913

FYI, I had a 150 min jump requirement to purchase a board. I did my 1st skysurf on jump #53, it went ok but I didn't try it again til I had a couple hundred. The more the better, if everything goes ok no problem but if you have an "issue", you need skills/experience to make the right decisions to save yourself.

Sammy Popov used to surf the Vegas tunnel all the time. I've even seen 2 boards in that tunnel at the same time.

I am putting out an APB on this winged skysurf board. It should look like this pic except it will be plastered with yellow & black Surfflite stickers. Last seen in Eloy 5-6 years ago. If anyone has seen this board, knows who has it or can lead me to where it is, it would be greatly appreciated. Only 2 of these were ever built and I have one of them. Keith Snyder (Kebe), skysurfer extraordinaire, and I really would like to find this thing so Kebe can perform a couple of experiments with it. It was NOT stolen so don't be afraid of ratting someone out. We just would like to have it back so we can test a new event of a more horizontal nature. thanks for all your help in advance. You can either email me at [email protected] or call 480-299-8913.

Actually, Jerry's primary malfunction was a baglock. Granted having a board strapped to your feet would definitely be a contributor to dealing with a baglock. :)

Here is a list of a few skysurfers who are more than capable of teaching (don't be offended if I miss a few). Now whether or not they are for hire is beyond me. But I have yet to meet a skydiver who isn't willing to earn $$$$ whilst jumping.

Keith Snyder (Myrtle Beach area)
Sean McCormack (Perris/Florida?)
Tanya Garcia (Perris)
Eric Fradet (France/worldwide)
Stephan Klaus (Switzerland/worldwide)
Oliver Furrer (Switzerland/worldwide)
Omar (Eloy)
Paco Romero (Canary Islands)
Jose Veras (Spain), probably the most active, funded, skysurfng dedicated guy out there today.
Valery Rosov (Russia)
Maria Ryabikova (Russia)
Mayumi Yanagisawa (Japan)
Lawrence Heltzer (Elsinore)
Scott Smith (Perris)
Dmitry Ovodenko (Russia?)

Quote

No point in learning the hard way what others have died doing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there has only been 1 skydiving death ever contributed to a skysurf board. It was a jumper with ~750 jumps making their 1st skysurf jump on a beginner board. Deployed their pilot chute between there legs and the board. This person took the board from manifest, without permission, no skysurf training what so ever and made the biggest mistake you can make on a beginner board. Had he at least watched the 30 minute training video (there is a 10 minute section specifically addressing the malfunction he ended up having) he would be with us today.

vladiball.org is Vladimir's website. There are also a few youtube videos of vladiballs being used if you do a search.

As for the concern about the "raining" shot. It is the equivalent of shooting a 12 gauge straight up in the air. The shot dissipates (spreads out) and "rains" down harmlessly. It will not poke holes in a canopy or anything else for that matter.

Think about it. You have a ~2" sphere that weighs close to 2 pounds falling to earth at a terminal velocity of ~150-160mph (like a tennis ball sky ball does). That can and has done some damage.

But with a Vladiball, if you don't catch it, it opens and releases many tiny lead or steel spheres, the shot is about .075 in diameter. These tiny spheres immediately decelerate to it's new terminal velocity which is about 7-9mph for a piece of lead shot as opposed to a 2", 2 lb spheres terminal velocity.

They are safe and I believe last months skydiving magazine stated something like "over 15,000 vladiball jumps logged without an incident." or something like that.

We spent many months testing before the 1st ball was sold, most centered around safety.

Having dealt with the developement, testing and marketing launch of the Vladiball here is what we found.

a) If by chance you don't catch the ball and it opens, the lead shot disipates over a very large area before it reaches the ground (~200 foot radius area from 1300ft up)

b) The individual pieces of lead shot has a terminal velocity of only 7-12 MPH, thus when it does hit the ground it is fairly harmless. (ever shot a 12 gage shotgun straight up in the air then let the shot rain down? Same affect.)

A group of us actually stood under a Vladiball in Eloy, precision dropped by Omar from under canopy several times. Nobody died or were injured. A good dust storms sand hurts more.:)

c) A Vladiball weighing 1 lb. 3.8 ounces, (560 grams) falls at ~155 MPH and has been proven to work well with most freeflyers.

Belly flying works best with a ball weighing ~0.9 lb. (400 grams).

d) Slight adjustments to the tail length affects stability of the ball. Start at 6" long and cut 1/8"- 1/4" off at a time

Ok, so we have an event still, good.

Very interesting thread to say the least.

Surfflite once held a competition in Eloy for "novice" skysurfers. No "pros" allowed. You could use pro camera flyers but you had to have no pro competions under your belt.

9 teams entered (from 5 counrties), no skysurfer had more than 25 surfs. Judging was performed by myself, Kebe and 1 other guy (sorry i cannot remeber who) The competition was every bit as fun and exciting as the pros (maybe not as graceful) but still fun and exciting. At the end on the comnpetition the point spread between 1st and last was about 11 points (5 rounds) Everyone had a great time, everyone felt like they accomplished something positive. It was a great day.

So what brought the 9 teams to the competition you ask? THE CASH PRIZES. Surfflite put up $1000 for 1st-3rd + a bonus round prize ($100 to the person who did the most revolutions of anykind in the bonus round) Plus I donated 30 jump tickets to the competitors to use during the event.

So as you can see $$$$ attract people (not medals) that event cost Surfflite some cash but it all paid off in the end as 3 of the 9 surfers ended up purchasing boards. So we nearly broke even.

This is where you all come in. Surfflite could and will offer event help like this but there is a catch. Surfflite has to be making some money. As in board orders. Without a cashflow we simply cannot afford to sponsor events. Now i am not in this to make a profit, I have always done this soley for the reason to continue a legacy started by Jerry Loftis. But with no board orders there is no extra $$$ to offer you guys and girls.

So here is my offer to the skysurfing community and those who wish to become skysurfers. I will offer (for the remainder of '05 and 2006) a 35% discount off retail price of any board bought. In order to receive the discount merly mention that you are attempting to save this sport from extinction. That's about all I can offer at this time but at least it is a start. Maybe, if the sport becomes alive again we can offer more.

To Karen, Kendall and their yet unborn child,

Kathy and I are so sorry to hear of this terrible loss. You are in our thoughts and prayers. If there is anything we can do to help please feel free to contact us.

With all our love,

Kerry & Kathy Vail

Wow, for a minute there I thought I was at .rec

I think Vladimir may have got lost in translation in that video. I really think his heart was in the right place. The bottom line is that as stability increases, maneuverability decreases and vis-versa. He's got that right and that's really the only point of the video.

As for the Vladiball. It works. There are ~400 Vladiballs out there right now and those who take the time to dial one in and can fly, like it. There are belly flyers using the ball with students and swear it is one of the best teaching tools to come along in quite a while.

Ever been paid Serbian wages Winsor? $120/month salary is considered middle class. So what's wrong with what he is doing? Vladiballs and Body Pilot In Command are both totally refundable if not satisfied and they are selling.I can't speak for the video but I have never had to refund money for a Vladiball. I have replaced 7 for either loosing the ball on the 1st jump or a broken hinge after not catching the ball on the 1st jump but that's it.


BTW, Cheryl Sterns had a great deal of input in the video. She likes it, but what does she know right?

At least, Vladimir has helped a few people understand the stability/maneuverability issues during a skydive.
At most, he invented a simple device that contributes to the safety of our sport. Cut the guy some slack.

Jump #101 was the 1st.

Jump #289 was the 2nd (that one got me a $9800 helicopter ride

That's it for me.

Ok, Since this thread is once again alive let me provide more clarity on what I did and what Omar said.

I initiated an "aggressive" 360 (as in a full toggle pull from slight breaks to down by my thigh very quickly)

3/4 of the way around I was in freefall watching my chute collapsing, as the lines got tight, line twist began.

(at this point cutting away was not on my mind because I was low, IMO)

Omar told me to never to make a snapping quick, aggressive toggle only turn. Not to never make a toggle only turn.

Obviously, a snapping toggle turn IS a no-no. Just read above how many people have done it with the same results I had, some worse. The main reason I posted this in the 1st place was just for the matter that I have never heard or knew this could happen.

I would have to say that only certified riggers should make "configuration changes" on your rig. Yeh, if a packer breaks a closing loop while packing, they should be able to replace it (as it was) without chasing you down to ask permission. And if a certified rigger is trained on your particular brand rig then they should be knowledgable enough to make safety related mods without your permission, but should let you know what they have done.. But if they only are trained on Javelin's then I don't believe they have any right to "modify" your Vector III without being properly trained 1st.

Let's face it, not many packers are supervised by riggers. Their packing experience is only as good as the amount of packjobs they have done. I used to look at it as "hey this packer has packed 1000's of rigs and I have only packed 25 so I trust them more than myself to do it right." That was until a packer packed my perfectly good operational parachute into a malfunction that nearly killed me. Now, I feel the need to take my life into my own hands and pack my own rig.

FYI, packers DO NOT carry liability insurance, if they kill or maime you with a half-assed packjob they will still be out there packing for the next person without any responsibility for their actions.

JMO
Disclaimer: Some of my best friends pack for a living and I respect all packers but facts are facts.

My biggest mistake:

Making a 3RD attempt to get my pilot chute out. But it came out alright....and proceeded into a line twist, which was followed by my slider slamming down and unstowing my right toggle. Then the toggle went over the top of the slider and sent me into a hard right spiral. Then realizing my slider grommet on the left side was trapping my left toggle so I could not unstow it. Then seeing the ground ~700 feet below me as my body is horizonal to the ground on about my 6th revolution. Then letting go of my handles thinking I was too low to chop. And FINALLY reaching up and hanging on my left FRONT riser to stop the spin. It stopped the spin alright, but by then I was ~75 from impact going directly downwind on a 20mph wind day.

I would have to compare the impact with jumping off the top of an 18 wheeler while travelling down the freeway at 50 mph.

Medical bills amounting to $162,000, cool metal parts in my back. Pain everyday (happened 22 months ago) YEP, pretty dumb shit, IMO.

Lesson learned: Time FLY'S when you are having fun. If the pilot chute won't come out give it up and reach for that silver handle.
Altitude Awarness
Altitude Awarness
Altitude Awarness

Smartest thing I have done since: Jumping again

We have come up with a good belly speed configuration for the Vladiball. Several of our customers have tested it out and are very happy with the results. There are even instructors who are using the Vladiball with students, that's right I said students. According to them it is a fantastic training tool.
Below is an email I received from a customer in Ireland describing his findings. along with an attached jpg.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We made a number of successful Vladiball jumps this weekend and we had
some great fun!

In total we made 8 jumps with the ball and we retrieved it every time.

I filled the ball exactly as you said: fill one half completely with lead
shot (I used lead shot, about <2mm in diameter) using the shorter of
the two tail lengths you gave me (about 6-7 inches). The ball weighed about
350g (although it was difficult to get a very accurate measurement since the
scales were very sensitive to the position of the ball on the scales).

Initially, when we released the ball and tried to catch it again, we
noiticed it would tend to fly away from you when you went up to it to grab
it. Particularly if there were 2 or more approaching the ball. The
perculiar thing was that the ball would fly "up" and then pop down
elsewhere. (This makes for a very funny video). We feel this may be due to
the deflected airflow coming off the jumper. The air would be deflected to a
much greater extend than it would with freefliers because of the amount of
their body exposed to the air.

However, we soon learned a way of catching the ball without it getting
away - we would fly up and quickly grab it with 2 hands.

On the next jump we took the ball up and released it immediately after
exit and just sat back and watched it. It seemed to float slightly after
exit but this could be due to the ball reaching terminal velocity at a
different rate to the jumper because it was fine later. It is very stable in
flight (i.e. the fall rate is constant, and it does not move around) when
you are not too close to it, however, it does have a "wobble" (i.e. it
bounces around and oscillates on the one spot) but does not move anywhere.
We were very happy with the ball at this stage but felt it the fall rate
could be increased slightly.

We filled it up with a small bit more of lead shot (still about half fill
the ball but with a slight mound) and it now weighed just under 400g
(approximately). This is now the perfect weight. (A total of 12 people of
different sizes and different skill levels jumped with the ball over the
weekend and nobody had any trouble staying with it.)

We then started to throw the ball to each other in freefall. This was when
the real fun started. We found it to be very solid and robust. It is very
easy to throw and to catch (even with one hand). We tried throwing it softly
and it would gently sail across the sky. We also threw it a bit harder and
it still goes straight across the sky but a good bit faster. It seemed that
sometimes the fall rate changed during the throw but this could be due to
either (i) the jumper holding the ball was not falling at the ball's fall
rate before the throw, (ii) the weight inside moved around on the throw and
caused it to float/sink slightly, or maybe another reason.

I wonder if the characteristics of the ball would be different if it was
full inside (i.e. no empty space - but still the same weight). Since I have
not seen the ball at freefly speeds it is difficult for me to compare the
stability, however, I was very impressed with how solid the ball was.


There is much excitement at our dropzone over the vladiball.

Please email me if you would like to discuss any aspect of the vladiball
for FS jumping. I think that it is fine for FS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We are still working on the freefly ball. It appears that all the really good freeflyers have no problem with the ball but some lesser skilled do. We are diligently working on making this thing user friendly for everyone. We do have a tail configuration that works great and makes the ball fly perfectly straight but it is too fast (~185mph) When we decrease the weight in the ball using this same tail it begins to wobble. We are getting close to solving this and should have something that will work for everyone in the coming months.

Banned in the UK? Why?
Are you saying skyballs are banned and the Vladiball. I can see why skyballs are banned but there is no excuse for banning the Vladiball. Don't you blokes bird hunt?

We have come up with a good belly speed configuration for the Vladiball. Several of our customers have tested it out and are very happy with the results. There are even instructors who are using the Vladiball with students, that's right I said students. According to them it is a fantastic training tool.
Below is an email I received from a customer in Ireland describing his findings. along with an attached jpg.

Quote

We made a number of successful Vladiball jumps this weekend and we had
some great fun!

In total we made 8 jumps with the ball and we retrieved it every time.

I filled the ball exactly as you said: fill one half completely with lead
shot (I used lead shot, about <2mm in diameter) using the shorter of
the two tail lengths you gave me (about 6-7 inches). The ball weighed about
350g (although it was difficult to get a very accurate measurement since the
scales were very sensitive to the position of the ball on the scales).

Initially, when we released the ball and tried to catch it again, we
noiticed it would tend to fly away from you when you went up to it to grab
it. Particularly if there were 2 or more approaching the ball. The
perculiar thing was that the ball would fly "up" and then pop down
elsewhere. (This makes for a very funny video). We feel this may be due to
the deflected airflow coming off the jumper. The air would be deflected to a
much greater extend than it would with freefliers because of the amount of
their body exposed to the air.

However, we soon learned a way of catching the ball without it getting
away - we would fly up and quickly grab it with 2 hands.

On the next jump we took the ball up and released it immediately after
exit and just sat back and watched it. It seemed to float slightly after
exit but this could be due to the ball reaching terminal velocity at a
different rate to the jumper because it was fine later. It is very stable in
flight (i.e. the fall rate is constant, and it does not move around) when
you are not too close to it, however, it does have a "wobble" (i.e. it
bounces around and oscillates on the one spot) but does not move anywhere.
We were very happy with the ball at this stage but felt it the fall rate
could be increased slightly.

We filled it up with a small bit more of lead shot (still about half fill
the ball but with a slight mound) and it now weighed just under 400g
(approximately). This is now the perfect weight. (A total of 12 people of
different sizes and different skill levels jumped with the ball over the
weekend and nobody had any trouble staying with it.)

We then started to throw the ball to each other in freefall. This was when
the real fun started. We found it to be very solid and robust. It is very
easy to throw and to catch (even with one hand). We tried throwing it softly
and it would gently sail across the sky. We also threw it a bit harder and
it still goes straight across the sky but a good bit faster. It seemed that
sometimes the fall rate changed during the throw but this could be due to
either (i) the jumper holding the ball was not falling at the ball's fall
rate before the throw, (ii) the weight inside moved around on the throw and
caused it to float/sink slightly, or maybe another reason.

I wonder if the characteristics of the ball would be different if it was
full inside (i.e. no empty space - but still the same weight). Since I have
not seen the ball at freefly speeds it is difficult for me to compare the
stability, however, I was very impressed with how solid the ball was.


There is much excitement at our dropzone over the vladiball.

Please email me if you would like to discuss any aspect of the vladiball
for FS jumping. I think that it is fine for FS.

We are still working on the freefly ball. It appears that all the really good freeflyers have no problem with the ball but some lesser skilled do. We are diligently working on making this thing user friendly for everyone. We do have a tail configuration that works great and makes the ball fly perfectly straight but it is too fast (~185mph) When we decrease the weight in the ball using this same tail it begins to wobble. We are getting close to solving this and should have something that will work for everyone in the coming months.

Here ya go. Carl Nespoli stuntman/skydiver

I see it this way:

Why should a competitor get a video, for free, that has every team who participated at NAT's on it. The team camera person already has their own teams jumps on video and can watch them anytime they want (unless they recorded over it) Even if every one of your rounds where on the video (which they won't be) it would only amount to less than 7 minutes. What entitles you to see how well everyone else did without paying for the video? Do you think that just because you are a participant in the Nat's that you should be treated "special" and not pay.? Who do you think you are Ol.. OOPs

Just because you are good at something, doesn't necessarily mean you're good at teaching it.

Here lies the problem. Everyone who has great FF skills should not make the assumption that they can teach others what they know for profit. Sure there are some who can but that percentage is small in comparison the ones who think they can.

Let's face it, there are plenty of world class freeflyers out there that fail to impress me with their "coaching" skills.

These are just my opinions and in no way am I singling out anyone. I've had maybe 7 different FF coaches and 1-2 where impressive. But someone who I feel was not a good coach might be great for you. Personalities play an important role in learning.

I've found that the best coached jumps (both personality and quality wise) are either free or buy their tickets and NO extra money.

It's been my observation that the guys (and schools) who try to get 2 tickets + $30-$50 per jump seem to show up at a DZ (to stay forever) but end up leaving after 1 season because they are broke and hope that they can go to another DZ and be more successful. Don't get me wrong they might be great FF'ers but 1/2 the time that is because their fricken head is so big they can't help but go head down.

My 1st sit was jump 8 after I passed AFF. I went out with my AFF instructors. I did nothing but sitflying for maybe 40 jumps. I think my 1st attempt at head down was around jump 75. Not as easy as a sit. Now, several hundred jumps later I still am not a skygod (thank god) but I feel comfortable going out of with groups up to 10. I think I have maybe 15 RW jumps total. I just don't see the joy in belly flying. Between the dirt diving and the ride up concentrating on your "routine" and the debriefing after the dive, it just seems like too much to do just for 1 jump. Even though I have seen an increase in FF dirt dives with some of the bigger ways. But it just seems more layed back to FF.

1 death while skysurfing, actually a baglock but had a board on. Lost altitude awareness and I think it is safe to say that the board MAY have contributed to his death. Jerry Loftis, Surf Flite founder and 1st American to skysurf. WFFC 1998.

1 death, 1st time beginner board jump. DZ employee, ~600 jumps. Grabbed board from behind manifest counter, never watched the training video (I'm 99% convinced this would have prevented the accident) or asked anyone about what to do on the 1st time board jump. Last seen "tracking away" on board. Assumption is that he deployed the pilot chute between his legs while still tracking. THE ONLY MAJOR THING THAT CAN MESS UP YOUR SHORT BOARD JUMP. It is also one of the major sections of the video that he didn't watch.

That's it, 2 deaths total. I'm sure there are plenty of "scared to death" skyboard jumps though.

Rob and Patrick, both fantastic skysurfers, passed on doing other things.

As for it's popularity, I have owned Surf Flite since late 1998. I would say that it has remained fairly steady. Not growing or declining. Board sales have been consistant for the last 5 years. The X-Games cancellation did not effect sales at all. Sales are 70% overseas, 30% American. (I think Americans are a little more sissyfied when it comes to boards)
Myth: You can only do solos or surf with a camera flyer only.

I have been on dives with 3 boards and 14 freeflyers. I have been on jumps with 5 boards and 3 freeflyers. It's all about your skills. Just like some people are only comfortable FF with 3 people and others are setting world records.

As for the future of skysurfing. Look for 2, 4' diameter tubes dumped out of the plane. Ovaltrack racing on short boards around the tubes. It will take a good board tracker. We are working on this and it will happen. We have come to the conclusion (like someone mentioned above) that it is very intimidating to imagine yourself ever being as good as your Eric Fradet type. The guy has over 24,000 skydives. How will anyone ever catch him. But tracking on a board is a basic skill that most anyone can master. Look for the future of boards to maybe seperate itself from the hardcore competitions and enter a more funfilled/competitve atmosphere. We had an event last winter in Eloy were there were 9 competitors from 5 countries. Nobody had more than 20 skysurfs, pros were not allowed to enter. The competition was just as close as the pro stuff, everyone had a blast and we gave out $750 in prize money. This is where I see the sport going in the future. But I could be wrong.

The mold that is used now cost ~$1000 to make. Maybe that doesn't seem like much here in the US but when the average monthly wage for a typical Serbian (formerly Yugoslavian) moldmaker is $120/month it equates to almost 1 years salary.

That's why I love the great USA, we can make more than $120/month doing most anything. Maybe even skydiving.

We are working on it. But since they are produced in a 3rd world country, things happen slow.
We have tons of feedback now and we WILL make it better. It is just too good of an idea to let die.

Check out that flappin hacky in the lower right of this pic. NICE!!

Ooops, to large to attach.

It is the 3rd one down and 3rd one from the left in the FF world record section of:


http://www.aboveallphotography.com