mjskiii

Just wanted to thank all of you for your comments. Some took my question as though I was trying to justify my decision, but that was not my intention at all. When I do something that is questioned, I like to get thoughts and opinions from other folks so that I can better learn from what took place. In my experience, some of the best tips and suggestions come from people completely removed from the action. Life is a learning experience.

Thanks again!

Absolutely going to try that one. Thanks!

Thanks! I'm sure we'll both get it in time. Nothing to it, but to do it! Or, keep trying over and over and over until it clicks:)

Thanks a ton for the advice. To some degree, I've felt pretty rushed with the jumps I've done so far. The folks are great, but usually I'm there on busy days and they don't have a lot of time to give tips, etc. I'll get it. Relax, relax, relax:)

Right on! I have not heard that tip before and am going to try it. I really want to get past level 7 so I can jump at will, but you're correct, even if you don't pass a jump, yo are still figgin skydiving:)

Thanks for the reply. Love to hear about how others got through the program. I have no doubt that relaxing is key and clearly somethings I must work on. Fortunately, the one skill I do have is tenacity. I'll get it eventually, albeit a bit poorer in the end:)

I think you are 100% spot on. My arch sucks and while I'm fairly flexible overall, I'm a bit tight in that area. I've started working at home to really loosen things up. Going to give level 3 another shot as soon as the damn weather clears for a day at the DV. The NW weather is tweeting in.

Thanks!

mathrick

***Anyway, once on the ground the DZ staff were adamant that I should have cut away. My logic was that since I did not appear to be in any danger, why cut away a chute that would get me down safely.

The trouble is when you find out that the configuration is in fact not landable, but no longer have the altitude to change canopies. It's always your call in the end, but in-air rigging is rarely the right choice. Unless you're sure it's good to land, the odds of finding out the reserve is bad after you cut away are lower than the chances of finding out the main is not landable after you decided not to cut away.

PS. "Lines" and "canopy" are the preferred terms, rather than "cords" and "chute".

Thanks for the advice and correction on terminology. Still learning the lingo.

crazydaisy315

I had to repeat level 3 twice, then did the tunnel and passed it. Then repeated level 4 three times, hit the tunnel again and nailed 5, 6, and 7 in one weekend. It happens, hang in there!!

As I said then, and still say now: I can barely relax on the ground, let alone at altitude.

Yep, the relaxing thing has got to be at the root of a lot of this. Thanks.

Joellercoaster

***Is this rare to not get it after 3 tries?

Not at all.

The fact that you can do it in the tunnel is all the proof you need that you can do it. It's the same air, you're just wearing a rig and massively more full of adrenaline.

Your instructors are right, listen to them
Thanks! I'll get it at some point. Just may cost me a fortune and a lot of cool points.

DrSher

I assume AFF is same as back in the days?

1st: no release from any of the JM's.
2nd: secondary releases
3rd: Both release..
Is that so??

When I did lvl one and two in Spain, Mitch was stressing for me to "relax" AND arch well. Then you avoided being so "buffety" in the air. This really prepared me for lvl 3 and I am convinced this made it easy.

So if you are too tense, it is hard to get a good arch as well, but you also want a strong arch. I don't know how that combination is. I am only speaking from personal reflections and memories as AFF student.

Another thing with AFF is the incredibly steep learning curve. Is there anything else in the world where you acquire a new skill set so rapidly? Any other thing you learn that is so exciting??

Also, when you arch to get out, is different in the way you arch when terminal.
Most of us are tighter in the body upon exit and more relaxed when reaching terminal speed.

LVL5 was my SOB. I went with Mitch doing turns when my second turn started spinning so far to the right that he had to level me off. Probably due to poor arching and arms. Then when I was supposed to move forward, I dipped down and went over my head, which was still tough to deal with. The rest of jump was on/off with staying steady. I remember hanging in the canopy and yelling "Sorry Mitch". When I came down he gave me a HUGE thumbs down. At that time, Maria was also having challenges with other student struggling with lvl 6. We could watch every AFF from ground camera and learned a lot from that. It was an exciting time. AFF is such an intense experience in introspection, at least it was for me.

My long-term memory is perfect (about certain things) and things are more and more coming back. No drugs, Rorshach test or psychoanalysis, just great memories.

In AFF what you are imperfect in will carry over to the next jump and when enough bad habits accumulate, you are likely to fail next level, IMHO. There is a lot to learn from every jump.

Finally, try to keep a good insight into your heading right before release. It is easier to stay steady if you have something on ground to focus upon.

Thanks a lot for the insight. I agree with the culmination of bad habits. I have to think that on some level I'm stressing over making the same mistakes, which likely contributes to me doing just that.

Di0

First time being released, yup, it happens.
I have repeated my level 3 (or 4? Can't remember) 3 times (if not 4 times).
You'll click and be just fine (or not, who knows).

You had me inspired until "or not", but I appreciate the humor:)

timrf79

I had to do level 3 quite a few times as well... Don't worry about it, because that will then translate into stress and that into tension...

relax, relax, relax

I'm beginning to think that is the key for me. Thanks!

jtiflyer

get good on level video footage of the jump so you can see exactly what your body is doing in freefall. No matter how descriptive your JM is during debrief, there is always room for interpretation. IME debriefing with video has always proven to be leaps and bounds more helpful. Also what are the exact reasons they won't let you go? Poor Arch? Leg awareness? arm awareness? built in turn? start from there.

The instructor on my 1st attempt filmed it and I clearly had a horrible arch and was basically looking down the whole time. No video of the next 2 tries, but was debriefed on relaxing more. One instructor said my changes in hand movements were too aggressive and perhaps that caused instability. I think the relaxing thing is becoming a theme, but strangely, I feel pretty relaxed.

Joellercoaster

***the DZ staff were adamant that I should have cut away

Were these DZ staff your AFF instructor? If not, you can and should ignore any and all advice they give you.

So, if I went through my control checks (2 deep flares, turns right and left, maybe another flare) and felt OK landing a canopy that looked a bit funny, then I would have done the same.

Relevance of this to you? Zero. You should also ignore me - doubly so, because not only am I not you, and not your AFFI, I wasn't even there. This will almost certainly be true of everyone else who replies in this thread, though some people will probably try and tell you what they would have done.

They were both staff and instructors. I felt like things were not that bad off, but as someone mentioned below, does my experience level really give me the ability to know what seemed safe? Part of me wishes I would have cut away just to have had the experience, but hey, always next time. Thanks!

FrontRoyalty

***I was on my 4th AFF jump and after deploying the main, I noticed the cords to my chute were pretty tangled and the slider was a bit askew. The canopy looked good, however, so I executed a flare and a couple turns with both checking OK. The malfunction did cause me to pull a bit to the left, but I was able to compensate by steering to the right. At that point, I decided to just ride it down and actually ended up sticking my first landing in which I stayed on my feet. Anyway, once on the ground the DZ staff were adamant that I should have cut away. My logic was that since I did not appear to be in any danger, why cut away a chute that would get me down safely. My newbie mind told me why risk putting all my eggs into a good reserve deployment unless I absolutely had to. Anyway, was just curious on anyone's thoughts? Maybe I was being overly cautious at not wanting to use the reserve unless I absolutely had to.

Well the good news is that you get to skydive again! Did they provide information that made sense during the debrief? What sort of malfunction/scenario did you have with the main, and why did they suggest that it be cut away?

Actually, the debrief was kind of limited and mostly just folks looking over the tangled lines. Hard to describe in detail without seeing it, but several lines were all tangled over others just under the slider and the whole thing kind of caused the risers to close in on my head (not a lot, but noticeably)

evh

***... My logic was that since I did not appear to be in any danger...

The question is this: are you, at your experience level, able to judge this?
To be more precise, are you able to estimate the speed at which your (somewhat malfunctioning) canopy is flying, both forward and downward? This is very difficult to say when you are still high enough to - safely - cut away.

Not saying you made the wrong decision - just something to think about.


Very good point and while I think I was able to judge how controllable the canopy was, I doubt I could really judge my rate of descent. May have gotten lucky with that.

I'm embarrassed to say that I've now failed level-3, 3 times. I feel great during the jump, I do all the correct procedures, etc, but I just can't seem to stabilize enough for the instructors to let me go. I seemed to do OK in the wind tunnel, but am just not translating that to the jumps. My arch is not perfect, but it's not bad. The instructors suggest that maybe I'm just not relaxed enough, which is possible, but things are getting a bit discouraging. Is this rare to not get it after 3 tries? Any tips or suggestions? Thanks for any advice you can send my way.

I was on my 4th AFF jump and after deploying the main, I noticed the cords to my chute were pretty tangled and the slider was a bit askew. The canopy looked good, however, so I executed a flare and a couple turns with both checking OK. The malfunction did cause me to pull a bit to the left, but I was able to compensate by steering to the right. At that point, I decided to just ride it down and actually ended up sticking my first landing in which I stayed on my feet. Anyway, once on the ground the DZ staff were adamant that I should have cut away. My logic was that since I did not appear to be in any danger, why cut away a chute that would get me down safely. My newbie mind told me why risk putting all my eggs into a good reserve deployment unless I absolutely had to. Anyway, was just curious on anyone's thoughts? Maybe I was being overly cautious at not wanting to use the reserve unless I absolutely had to.