daveb

Blue Skies, Henry!

I've been away (far too long), but Henry is one of those excellent people you want to call friend.  I admired his dedication to the sport, his friendly and competitive manner, and his reliability.

The hardest part of this sport is knowing so many quality people, and then having to say goodbye.

I enjoyed jumping with Flip.  I met him at a World Team record event in Thailand.  So sad to hear he passed, but knowing the little I do about him, it was at least aviation related, which was a passion of his.  Blue skies, brother!  -- Dave

You know it's cold when you don't want to get off grips because they are blocking the windstream. When I become aware of my ears in freefall (even while training) under a full-face helmet, I know it's cold. But then, I'm a self-professed cold-pansy. Gimme heat any day.

Gordo, I never bitched about block 12. Oh wait, that was 8way.

I always liked zipper-star; it was a cool move for the front half, and when performed well looked studly. Too bad about all the center-point controversy. It's death knell was when the camera flyers started having to make adjustments to avoid video-angle busts; I think the judges got dizzy from the spinning video.

Hey Clint!
Awesome video! And I absolutely need the sweet money shot of us in silhouette with the sunset in the background. That was the the photo of the event, IMHBCO. I want something I can have printed and framed -- it was that good.

Neal: congrats dude! I hope that jump adds to your list of cool things in life you've done. Remember this for someday in the future when you have the opportunity to help someone else get their SCR!

Those in my group: thank you for flying so well and help making Neal's SCR a very fun and memorable skydive!

Those in the other SCR group: I apologize for kind of cherry-picking in Neal's favor. Thank you for being gracious enough to allow me that perk. I certainly did not set out with that in mind, but as the number of jumpers swelled, time got short, and I absent-minded one in our group, it just sorta happened. Still, y'all were great sports about it!

Skyfest rocks! I always have fun at this boogie, and look forward to more in the future.

And Clint, I really do want a copy of that picture!

Wouldn't miss it! Looking forward to getting more SCRs on the books, some larger, sequential formations, hopefully a hybrid or three, and seeing a bunch of friends I haven't met yet.
-- Dave

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Mykel, I remember when we first met at the DZ in San Marcos. You have grown tremendously in the past few, and I think you are a much better person now than then (heh, wait, that came out wrong -- I mean that only in the best way). You have embraced the skydiving life far more than most, and kept your passion and energy at a truly infectious level. I don't make it to Spaceland often, but when I do I am afforded the pleasure of watching you with students, newbies and old farts alike. Your attitude motivates me to want to do better with others.

I should think that this attitude comes from within, and is not due to skydiving, but rather was there all along and perhaps liberated by the jumps. No matter what the future holds for you, this inner strength will help you overcome the tribulation headed your way. But more than that, you are not alone. You have enriched many lives. I know many others will say the same, but I want you to know that you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Heal up, bro!

-- Dave

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What if I had to stop skydiving? What if I could never experience solo freefall or instruct again? Will the issues I was suffering from rear their ugly head again even worse than before? It has been my intention to continue to skydive until I am dead; the mere thought of not being able to skydive again, to instruct in particular almost brings tears to my eyes....

My last reponse on this topic. Ron, you may have the last word.

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Nice way to try and avoid the very simple fact that even we skydivers encourage a reckless image....

Pardon? 'Try and avoid'? I am not avoiding anything, and your attempts to paint it as such are ... irritating.

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Now I have heard all of these and more. I have a Pro Rating and have done over 100 demos. I see and hear how the general public reacts to skydivers. I have been teaching for 12 years and work with students and their families. I hear how even those who come out to make a jump think of the sport. Most see it as a one time adventure and to do it every weekend is nuts.

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See above. Most people have not seen any of the flicks you mention. No, I don't know everyone and every circumstance. I am relating only my experience

So without any evidence other than personal experience, ignoring almost all evidence, you have such a strong opinion?

The Great Ron has spoken? Your evidence trumps mine? Because you've been in the sport twice as long as me, I'm not as qualified? I haven't had contact with the general public, or even tandem students? Sigh. Citing movies as evidence that mentioning skydiving brings up associations that that person is dangerous, drug-using, and unreliable is specious at best. I see the same evidence as you, and come up with a different conclusion.

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In my case, you betcha. I have done so. I will continue to do so. I note you did not quote me when I specifically mentioned it was not always apropos, and probably not even a good idea except in certain circumstances.

So if you argree, why are your arguing against my advice to keep it quiet?

I'm not arguing such. Why are you trying to make this into that type of argument? Let me rephrase it to be more clear: It is not usually a good idea, but there are useful situations where it is appropriate.

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Wierd[sic] is quite aways from "dangerous", "drug-using" and "unreliable".

"Wierd" can mean many different things. It can infact mean "Dangerous, Drug-using and Unreliable" depending on your view of those things.

This brings to mind Lewis Carroll:
"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
Nope, cannot argue with that type of logic. And if you want to quote dictionary entries, it helps to spell it properly: weird.

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It can be used in some cases. For this job I have now it helped....

So you are ignoring your own advice? Realize I've said nothing different.

I stand by my advice, even given my woefully inadequate personal experiences, ignoring Hollywood as a role model, and lack of a Pro Rating. I only report that my resume not only mentions skydiving, but features it, and it does so without speaking to point averages, number of jumps, time in sport, or any other irrelevant statistic. One last thing you might want to consider, Ron, is that it's just barely possible I have been on both sides of the interview table, and I'm not speaking out of my arse.

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YOU may not use them.
But lets look at Skydiving Movies:

Most people don't even know about these movies, or at least have not seen them. Of those that have, how many do you think believe anything shown on the silver screen is an accurate and believable representation of real life?

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And thats not including made for skydivers movies with the nudity and low pulls and such.

And the general public certainly watches these alot.

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The realm of YOUR business contacts, family relations, and most social areas. But you also state " You say the world at large is ignorant of the negative view of skydiving"...But show me one movie other than "Ripcord" where skydiving was put into a good light.

See above. Most people have not seen any of the flicks you mention. No, I don't know everyone and every circumstance. I am relating only my experience, with a family background absent a flight history other than as a passenger, living an hour from the closest dz, and working in an industry where the predominant thrill-seeking adventure is a FPS game. Before I started skydiving, I had zero clue about skydiving culture, yet all the movies you listed were available to me. I think I even saw Dropzone, Terminal Velocity and Point Break before jumping, and never considered them as a reasonable source of information.

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But if used wisely, at the appropriate time and in an humble and sober fashion, it is can be a positive and engaging topic without invoking the worst stereotypes.

And you think that in an interview when you don't know how it will be recieved is a GOOD time to bring it up?

In my case, you betcha. I have done so. I will continue to do so. I note you did not quote me when I specifically mentioned it was not always apropos, and probably not even a good idea except in certain circumstances.

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People respect the guy that faced his fears and did one jump. They look at the guy that does it a bunch as wierd. We even encourage that view.

Wierd[sic] is quite aways from "dangerous", "drug-using" and "unreliable". No argument that the general public has zero comprehension of what we do and why we do it.

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NO........Hell no.

People do not see skydivers as paying attention to detail, they see them as dangerous, drug using, wild, unreliable, thrill seekers.

!!! Wow, that runs completely opposite to the circles I run in (high tech, non-skydiving industry). Sure, I've had the universal reaction "that's just crazy", but I'm therefore dangerous? Drug-using? Unreliable? Those are not adjectives I've ever associated with skydiving (even before I started), nor used by those with whom I associate professionally. Perhaps you have a different perspective because you lived on a DZ and saw all the worst? Those specific, terrifically negative adjectives and their siblings are outside the realm of my business contacts, family relations, and most social areas (the skydiving community itself is the biggest exception); I find the world at large very ignorant and naive of the skydiving 'lifestyle', and thus ignorant of the negatives you apply.

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Edit, so it actually depends on the job. If its a job in an office, or bank, no....

My personal experience runs somewhat counter to this. I work in an office, for a small, private firm, which ran a background check on me, and my resume prominently displays my skydiving, to the point of being literally equal with my professional employment history.

There is a place and a time and a manner in which your skydiving should be explained. It is not the same for everyone, nor for every time, nor for every occasion. If it is used boastfully (hey, I'm cool, I skydive), it will be received poorly. If it is used in the wrong context (yes sir, if you'll just sign this $10 billion contract.... Say, did I tell you about the time I almost died skydiving?), it can prove costly. But if used wisely, at the appropriate time and in an humble and sober fashion, it is can be a positive and engaging topic without invoking the worst stereotypes.

Should you mention it on your resume? How big a part of your life is it? Will it impact your job even a little? Have you made significant accomplishments or earned a living skydiving? These would be good reasons to mention it. Otherwise, there is little to be gained and much to lose, and it probably isn't at all relevant anyway.

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If you had a really important interview, for a great new job/parternship, or a postgrad professional school, or whatever, would you mention that you are a skydiver?

Yes, I did. In fact, I let them know that it was a big part of my life, and I needed extra days off for training and Nationals, as well as three weeks off in Jan-Feb 2006 for an event. My rationale: 1) I needed the extra time off, 2) It explains a large gap in my resume 3) It helps explain who am I - and what drives and motivates me.

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Negative perceptions: You're crazy, have a death wish, immature, may die or become incapacitated and therefore not worth the investiment, etc

Their response to me: don't die. BTW, I got the job. The biggest issue was the time off requirement, not the danger.

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P.S. What are your hobbies or what you do for fun is a possible question and likely to be asked.

Don't lie. Use it to tout your strengths. Find the positives unique to the job, and the common threads in your hobbies. Don't argue with them, or try to justify the sport.

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Yes, I have accepted God's grace, but I still worry that I did something to screw it up.

What could you possibly do to *unaccept* God's grace? You were born into this world -- it is impossible by any act to become unborn, to undo that singular moment in time. You can wish it didn't happen, you can bring this life to an end, you can say it didn't happen (disingenious, that) -- but it did happen and there is nothing -- not one possible thing -- you can do to become unborn. Therefore, when Jesus Himself said 'You must be born again.' [John 3:3 & John 3:7], can you see why He might have chosen that analogy?

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This is the biggest problem I have with the whole thing. They tell you that you're saved and then torment you the fine print for the rest of your life over everything...

I couldn't agree more. Here's a twist to the proverb "The road to hell is paved with good intentions": well-meaning people trying to tell others how to live oftentimes drive those others away from salvation.

I am 'prepared' to die, but I'm not ready to die. For selfish reasons, actually, I'd prefer the rapture to occur a good piece down the road. Fortunately for all, it's not my will that sets the time. (trying to stay on-topic ;-))

There's a gap between "once a month or so" and "not anymore" that I fall within. I still have all my gear (although my shoes never really fit), and intend to become at least somewhat active in the sport again -- especially if I can convince my son to take an intro climbing course with me.

I also know a few elite skydivers that climb regularly, and are accomplished climbers. The overlap is certainly larger than my early impressions.

No reason to start in the rookie class. My first season was in intermediate (AA), and that same year I competed in my first Nationals in advanced (AAA) - I hadn't even done several of the blocks. You just have to want it enough.

Go big, Travis!

(You have about as many jumps as I did when I started doing the compete thing.)

-- Dave

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just wondering what the reason is:
1) don't need to be staff to have jump funds?
2) students are potential "killers"
3) you have fun jumping with friends
4) you plan on it, just waiting for enough experience/jump #s

1, 3 and 5: don't need a rating to coach 4way or organize. As for 2, I'm not so worried about a student killing me as I am about a student dying on my watch -- I'd be second guessing myself until doomsday, wondering if it was something I said, or didn't say, or didn't say well, or didn't confirm, or ....

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I put myself on a load and before I got to the ground the winds picked up substantially. ...
Do you have a wind "cut off"? ... Any suggestions for a newbie?

I have ridden the plane down due to winds that picked up after takeoff, and would do so again. My personal limit is the lesser of 30mph or the limits of my current load. I also have a limit on gusts; I don't want to have to fly in 10-25 winds.

I highly recommend you pick a limit that *you* are comfortable with, and *stick* to it, without bending to peer pressure. Far better to miss a single jump than miss a season (or more) recovering.

-- Dave

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There are other things in life, skydiving isn't everything.
Derek

Right now, it's pretty interesting. If it ceases to be that, I will move on.

I was going to reply to Winsor's post (which I think is well considered), but upon thinking about what I wanted to say (vs. had to say ;-), this post probably sums it up best. People quit for any number of reasons -- all good -- but the more interesting question is why do people stay? What is it that's different about those with thousands of skydives and ten or more years in the sport that keeps them jumping?

I'm not there yet, but I'm beginning to see some patterns -- you old guys correct me:

1. Continued education -- there is always something to learn, to improve, to try.
2. Educating others -- passing on knowledge to other jumpers.
3. Variety -- trying new things or in new situations

I was going to add "dedication to a goal -- witness the top competitive skydivers", but I realized this is really a combination of the first two, and occassionally the third. And any other thing I thought of was essentially some combination of these three. And on top of all that, the foremost answer was exactly Happythought's post, that bears repeating:

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Right now, it's pretty interesting. If it ceases to be that, I will move on.

This is so insightful, it really rewards some honest contemplation.

Obviously, as Derek states, there is more (much more!) to life than skydiving, and I hope to never be as shallow and one-dimensional as believing that skydiving is *it*. And as much as I enjoy this sport, I find that I wholeheartedly agree with Happy's self-assertion.

-- Dave

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The Hilton is offering very nice rooms for $69. Call (979) 693-7500 and Mention the AOT Skydivers for the discounted rate.

Woohoo -- I'm comin' to play! I'll be there Sat & Sun, got a room at the Hilton (thanks for the info) so I can, er, partake Saturday night. See y'all Saturday!

-- Dave

Awesome video! It captures the fun y'all are having on the jumps. I love the titles for each section; it brought a big smile to my face, remembering when my 4way jumps were like those. I hope y'all never lose sight of the fun aspect of 4way! You shame more than a few teams!

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I booked a jump at SSM for 15 tandems plus my AFF and today I got a call saying that they are going to cancel my reservation because of pilot shortages.

I now have a choice: call up my 15 friends and tell them "Just kidding about that whole skydiving thing!" or find somewhere else to go.

This is a *rarity*! SSM puts up more tandems than any other DZ in Texas, by a pretty fair margin. I'd suggest rebooking; you won't have this problem a second time. And for a group your size, a huge benefit of a DZ with an operation like SSM is the number of tandems they can put on a single load -- your friends won't have to go up by themselves, but in groups of three-five at a time, which improves the experience greatly -- it's alot more fun to be scared with friends than scared by yourself, and then there's the thrill of watching your friends in front of you scream as they exit, and now it's *your* turn.... ;-)

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Four way starts the sixth of September.

No, 4way starts on Monday, Sept 5.

Yep. Mine's off for service. And I train 4way, with verticals and everything. And I've been hammered in freefall with attendant vacant expression.

It's not my *preference*, mind you.

My son has attended two Airspeed tunnelcamps at SkyVenture indoor tunnels, once at age 10 and again at 12. My concern was not safety, but if he would be able to perform. Silly me. I'll take him to another in the near future, and have no problem recommending the tunnel to parents.

-- Tim's Dad

Brian,

I've got a couple of suits that might fit you if you want to try them out; one is a Tony, the other is a Bev. Each suit maker has a distinctive fit, but on the whole, pretty much all suits are the same. It comes down to little variances in personal taste and body profiles that really differientiate the products. Rehm hit most of the must-have options (don't know that I agree about rubber soles -- shoe goo is the solution if the leather wears too quickly). My preference is Bev.

Echoing the color scheme comments, if you must have massive orange areas, put it on the belly, and have the back and 'sides' be black. White gloves will be the easiest to find, and good contrast (e.g. white on black) makes the judges job much easier -- which is a Good Thing for you. IIRC, Deguello got into a bit of a tiff with judges at a Nationals due to background clutter and the team's suit colors. Something to think about.

I'd be glad to work with you on starting a 'Rats 4way team if you want, and there's no end of advise on this forum.

-- Dave

CompAgenda Clicky

Only part within section 5 that I don't agree with is changing the name "Open" to "Pro" or "International". I am not a pro; I have a full time job (shock and surprise to those that know my recent history ;-). International teams are guests. I'm a citizen and eligible -- not a guest. Open is the correct appellation.

As far as allowing teams to defend Advanced Class medals for one year, I've a few questions...

1. Why not Intermediate also, for the same reasons? What about any new classification?
   
2. What is the ruling if the results are 1-2-1? On the fourth year, do they get to stay in the same class? In other words, is the move-up rule going to be back-to-back wins or just two wins? If just two wins, is there a limit to years between wins?
   
3. Does this have any effect on the rule that no more than 25% of the members can have previously gold-medaled? In other words, would a team with two former gold medalists not be able to challenge the previous year's champion in the same class?
   
   • If not, why not?
     
   • If so, will the rule be that you cannot have more than 25% with *two* gold medals in the same or higher class?
     
   • Or 25% with two medals in the same class or one or more medals in a higher class?