adamgoodsell46

Whats the airports problem with tecumseh?

Bluhdow

A very fair point, thank you.

But would you also agree that a beginner should be on a steep, relatively obstacle-free hill with very little mechanical turbulence? Would you also agree that they should be in ideal conditions...perhaps a light headwind to assist with launch?

My big question is this: Do you gain enough in safety with respect to turbulence-recovery, to offset what you lose in familiarity? Additionally, every speedwing I've ever flown has been less forgiving to heavy inputs (harness or toggle). Could it be the skydivers (who are more heavy-handed than speedflyers) could benefit from some forgiveness in this area in the early stages?

To be clear, I'm not suggesting making a career out of flying sky canopies. I'm simply saying for skydivers, it can be a very helpful learning tool for the first 10-30 launches.

Love where this discussion went to! :D After not flying a skydiving canopy for a little while now I forget they may be a little more docile. For example my first flight on a speed wing I did a major toggle grab and almost did an unintentional barrel roll. Not really, but it just swung out very far.

Still I think just starting on a little bigger speed wing than used to in skydiving and you'll still have the benefits of it being as docile as your sky canopy while also having the safety benefits, glide, easy launching of a speed wing.

The111

***Come on man. Math. A 45 degree slope would be a close out line with a 2:1.

I don't think math works the way you think it does. "Come on man math," back at you.

hahaha tuché. I think I've been out of school too long.
where angle has to be greater than theta
tan(theta) = opposite over adjacent.
tan(theta) = 1/2
theta = tan^-1(0.5) ... I think if I can do this correctly anymore
theta = 26.3 deg or greater.

JWest

with a 2:1 glide ratio you only need the slope to be greater than about 30 degrees.

Come on man. Math. A 45 degree slope would be a close out line with a 2:1. You will need much greater than 30 degrees to get even get off the ground let alone get away from the terrain.

And to the stilleto 135. Really? ... speed wing learning tool?... I hope no one reads that takes you seriously and thinks that thats how you're supposed to learn.

JWest

It's like skydiving, you don't start on a highly loaded elliptical. You start on full size paraglider and work your way down to a speedwing.

I just want to point out in order to keep as much correct information in this thread as possible, that a paraglider is going to have much different characteristics from a skydiving canopy and a much higher aspect ratio than a speed wing. In modern speedwings, the fazer is much closer to a skydiving canopy than a paraglider. A p.g. will be more elliptical, and can collapse, while a fazer will be more square and boxy and will be about just as hard to collapse as a skydiving canopy. Many/most skydivers transition from a similar sized skydiving wing to a speedwing with proper training.

That said you can get a very eliptical high aspect ratio speed wing if that's what you're into too.

JWest

It's like skydiving, you don't start on a highly loaded elliptical. You start on full size paraglider and work your way down to a speedwing.

I just want to point out in order to keep as much correct information in this thread as possible, that a paraglider is going to have much different characteristics from a skydiving canopy and a much higher aspect ratio than a speed wing. In modern speedwings, the fazer is much closer to a skydiving canopy than a paraglider. A p.g. will be more elliptical, and can collapse, while a fazer will be more square and boxing and will be about just as hard to collapse as a skydiving canopy. Many/most skydivers transition from a similar sized skydiving wing to a speedwing with proper training.

I would highly suggest not ground launching a skydiving canopy and learning how to launch a speed wing instead. They are going to launch much better, perform better, creating an overall safer wing as they are specifically designed for ground launching.

Bluhdow

"I believe you have mitigated a ton of the risk involved by launching with an already good canopy above your head."

This is incorrect. There's a speed flying fatality list, you know.

I've done a lot of speed flying and it is really great, but you'd be foolish to underestimate it.

I'm jealous of your hard-core rock 'n roll party lifestyle. You are obviously very cool and I'm looking forward to your athlete page on FB.

Just because there is a fatality list doesn't mean that there is no mitigation of risk by having an open canopy in comparison to BASE. Just because people die driving a car doesn't mean that there is no mitigation of risk by wearing a seat belt. Just because we drink captain morgan doesn't make us cool. We were already cool. Joking aside I did not intend this to be a calling to beginners hey, pick up a small wing, come run off some cliffs, ALL risk is mitigated. I won't say that and didn't think my post needed to be idiot proof to understand that. A little bit of common sense goes a long way in all of these sports. Of course progression is going to be the best way to learn.

That being said, in regards to the post on canopy control I wholeheartedly believe speed flying to be great for canopy control and believe this should be as obvious as day. All it is is canopy control, from kiting on the ground (which both beginners and experts should practice often) to flying in the sky. Does that mean you should be buzzing the ground your first time out? Again I am going to idiot proof my post. NO. It does not. Should an 90 sq ft canopy be your first wing NO. It should not. I think a little bit of common sense here goes a long way toward everyone's learning.

gunsmokex

Thanks for sharing man. Are there any more speed flying schools in the US? I really dig this and it'd be a dream of mine to learn how. In my back yard there is a ~35 degree hill completely bare meadow that runs down 500'-600' over about 200'-250' vertical rise not sure if that is a big enough hill to do anything with but man it'd be great to practice on those off days.

500 over 250 would be perfect at a 2 to 1 glide. 600 over 200 would be cutting it kind of close at a 3 to 1 with some of the smaller wings but still doable. At a 3 to 1 it'd be pretty fun on a bigger wing like a firefly at 16m (169 Sq ft if I remember correctly). I know i launched a paraglider a couple of times before teaching myself to speed fly but I know that some places will start you on a 16m. It depends on the amount of wind. If you're thinking about teaching yourself it is doable depending on the person and I'd hate to advise anyone to do that over the internet as its obviously higher risk.

And yes there are places all over the country that teach it. A good one out at the point of the mountain in Utah. If you go I'd talk to Gary. Up in Washington there's a place in Chelan. And out in southern California my personal favorite at Soboba where I was able to get in about a hundred 800-1500' vert flights in less than a months time which is pretty much unheard of anywhere else. Or if you're near Boulder Colorado there's a good place where I taught myself for my first 50 flights in about a month at 600ft vert. So yes there are many options all over the country. You can add me on facebook if you have anymore questions and I can point you to some people who are actually currently in the states and have more information. Hope that helps! Cheers!

Adam Goodsell.

I know a lot of skydivers are interested in speed flying and as someone who had done 6 hours of tunnel and only had 80 jumps, I know that speed flying greatly improved my canopy skills. Also as new jumpers may feel the heat of that big hole in your pocket called lift tickets, speed flying is cool because you get to climb the mountain and fly down for free. But as compared to base I believe you have mitigated a ton of the risk involved by launching with an already good canopy above your head. That being said you can take the risk as high as you want to ie. close terrain flying, barrel rolls, etc. Anyways this is one of my favorite training grounds in the United States and I thought I'd share the place with you. It's called Soboba Flight Park and is located in southern California with great instructors on staff for an easy transition to learning how to speed fly. Hope you enjoy the video and I hope that some of you check this place out :) Cheers! https://www.youtube.com/embed/HOTUuieNtoQ