SkydiverShawn

skycat

They are balancing the fans in Rosemont on Monday, commissioning will be soon after that. I will post when DV tells me the fans are turning, but it is very soon. I think they are shooting for a mid-may opening date.

May is highly unlikely, June is more realistic. Capture from their website attached.

http://www.rosemont.com/ifly-skydiving-update/

SkydiverShawn

I did...

I met Chris and purchased a RW suit on August 4th at SDC Summerfest. Chris is a nice guy with all of the ambition in the world.

After additional communication with Chris I realized that the seven week lead time for a RW suit would not work. Chris offered to send my money back, but that never happened. So...I elected to take a camera suit for the money that was paid for the RW suit. No big deal I thought...

Chris proposed a design, which I did not really like. I offered an option which would not work, and I finally came up with a color selection and pattern that would work with the materials that are offered. During this time the "computer work" and design was supposed to being completed. So I waited, waited, waited, and waited some more. I contacted Chris in Mid October and asked about my suit. I was told that there was a material issue and that he was waiting on new material and that I should see my suit in November. Ok, so I waited some more. Finally on December 3rd I received the camera suit.

I was amped, expecting perfection...and was literally crushed to see that the color pattern was not at all correct, as it was just as Chris proposed and I rejected. The suit also does not have the leg zippers and outside pocket that I paid for and the legs are too long for me to create any tension on the booties, even with thick soled shoes and the rig on.

I contacted Chris immediately and was told that he would call me this morning, nothing. I have requested that we agree on a solution by the end of the week (Dec 6th a full four months after I paid him). It looks like I may need someone to make the alterations that I need. Does anyone know of someone that can help me, maybe in the Chicago area?

I guess I will get to voice my opinion when he shows up at SDC next summer, and you can bet I will be telling everyone about this experience, even if I do it in front of his booth and every Boogie I attend.

Chris...if for some reason you read this and would like for me to edit, I will. I would be glad to let everyone know of the resolution we come to that makes us both happy.

I would like to post an update to my comments above.

Chris and I have been in regular contact regarding the issues surrounding the camera suit...and he has proposed a solution that is above an beyond what I would have expected, from any suit manufacturer. To protect Chris from exploitation in the future I am choosing to not share that here, if he chooses he can.

What I will add, I do not nor have I ever believed that Chris, or anyone at Freefall Suits was/is less than honest. He did offer to send my money back, and I am choosing to take the suit instead. This is a new company that is in its infancy, and there are pains with that. It is how Chris handles these few issues that will define Freefall Jump Suits as a company in the future, and when this all comes together for me I will be proud to wear this camera suit. His products are extremely well made and of the highest quality and craftsmanship.

As soon as this is completely resolved I will post photos of the suit. Until then I am confident that I am not only going to get what I paid for, but much more.

I did...

I met Chris and purchased a RW suit on August 4th at SDC Summerfest. Chris is a nice guy with all of the ambition in the world.

After additional communication with Chris I realized that the seven week lead time for a RW suit would not work. Chris offered to send my money back, but that never happened. So...I elected to take a camera suit for the money that was paid for the RW suit. No big deal I thought...

Chris proposed a design, which I did not really like. I offered an option which would not work, and I finally came up with a color selection and pattern that would work with the materials that are offered. During this time the "computer work" and design was supposed to being completed. So I waited, waited, waited, and waited some more. I contacted Chris in Mid October and asked about my suit. I was told that there was a material issue and that he was waiting on new material and that I should see my suit in November. Ok, so I waited some more. Finally on December 3rd I received the camera suit.

I was amped, expecting perfection...and was literally crushed to see that the color pattern was not at all correct, as it was just as Chris proposed and I rejected. The suit also does not have the leg zippers and outside pocket that I paid for and the legs are too long for me to create any tension on the booties, even with thick soled shoes and the rig on.

I contacted Chris immediately and was told that he would call me this morning, nothing. I have requested that we agree on a solution by the end of the week (Dec 6th a full four months after I paid him). It looks like I may need someone to make the alterations that I need. Does anyone know of someone that can help me, maybe in the Chicago area?

I guess I will get to voice my opinion when he shows up at SDC next summer, and you can bet I will be telling everyone about this experience, even if I do it in front of his booth and every Boogie I attend.

Chris...if for some reason you read this and would like for me to edit, I will. I would be glad to let everyone know of the resolution we come to that makes us both happy.

DrDom

Chicago certainly has a cool programme, and I like the idea of "breaking the mold" but A-in-a-week isnt for everyone. Assuming you do a FJC on day 1 and one jump you have 24 jumps to do in 6 more days. 4 jumps a day, plus learning to pack, tests, knowledge requirements... I've been through medical school and that sounds like a grueling pace.

You're in SA which means right now is PREMIUM skydive season, just go start jumping and move at your pace. In 1 month I only did 6 jumps, but I had a blast doing it.

I think they actually set this to be ten days. Starting on Friday for ground school and possibly a jump then you have a weekend plus a week. This is more than enough time fro training, jumping, and debriefing.

But, everything that goes into an A-license and the jumping is not for everyone to complete in that time frame. Some people need a little more time for personal emotional reflection between jumps or to work through issues that develop in flying.

MalcolmR

Simon's Life Philosophy from Parachutist: I try to jump more and philosophize less, but Bill and Ted said it best: “Be excellent to each other; and party on, dudes!”

Wow.

http://parachutistonline.com/columns/profiles/simon-bones-d-28573

I bet he could answer this differently:

What has been your worst skydiving moment?
I had a drogue-reserve entanglement that kept the reserve slider stuck all the way up after a container lock on a tandem. I spent terrifying time trying to bring the knot down the reserve lines in order to get the slider down. At the time, I had fewer than 100 tandem jumps and did not understand how it would be possible to container lock a Sigma tandem rig. My ignorance put me and my passenger in a potentially fatal situation. Thankfully, we both walked away with only bumps and bruises.

NWFlyer

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That said free fall is only half the skydive. I'm stating the obvious here but there is a huge difference between flying your body and flying your canopy.

And what you can do in the tunnel is only half of the freefall portion. Tunnel can't teach you exits, diving/approaching a formation, tracking, breakoff safety, etc. Tunnel's a useful tool but being a badass tunnel flyer does not automatically make you ready for all types of skydives.

I completely agree...

Being competent in the tunnel can also dilute ones perspective about the rest of a skydive. Meaning that they get confident is some skills and that confidence can be overstated with regards to the aspects of a skydive you mentioned.

The stresses involved with opening the door, climbing out of and letting go of a properly functioning plane can be overwhelming, and there is no way a potential skydiver or student can prepare for that in the tunnel, and that does not account for the stresses at deployment, canopy flight and landing?

In fact, three points of a skydive are the most stressful, exit/deployment/landing. Not one of these can be taught in a tunnel.

davelepka

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So why would the weight and wing load here not matter?

Weight and WL do matter, but really only in the beginning when it comes to a downsizing progression. When you select your first canopy, you should choose a WL that is 'sensible' for your weight and experience.

Once that is done, downsizing is strictly a function of skill, experience, and currency. Regardless of what your weight is now, you only need to look at how well you handle your current canopy when making the decision to downsize. That's the only relevant factor.

You do not 'need' any particular WL, what you 'need' is to jump a canopy that you can safely handle in the worst case scenario. If higher winds pick up when the plane is on jumprun, and turn into high, gusty winds, and you get blown away from the DZ and have to land off, you need to be on a canopy that you can reliably set down in a potentially smaller LZ with the possibility of turbulence. At that point, it's your skill, experience, and currency that will get you safely down, not attaching yourself to a particular WL.

Think about it, your own example illustrates how different DZs and different jumpers will start off on different WL, so to a degree, it's an arbitrary number. To then turn around and take that arbitrary number and make it a 'rule' such that you downsize your canopy because you lost some weight is making a mistake. The number is what it is, but it's not related to your skill, experience. and currency on that canopy/WL.

While there are differing opinions about what sort of canopy or WL is appropriate for a newbie, I would suggest that it's a universal opinion that downsizing should be done one size at a time, and only when you've demonstrated competency on your current wing. While the first step might be different for everyone, each step after that should only be one step at a time.

Very nice! I appreciate the responses...sometimes it is hard to find an answer to questions like this that are not filled with opinion and cockyness or simply disregard that fact that one might want not only an answer, but a "why" or "why not".

Thanks,

Shawn

jumpinjackflsh

I bought a new suit in Sebastian in February from Chris Mr. Walczak and it's amazing. All the bells and whistles, high quality material and the sales and service Chris provided was unbelievable.

Priced better than anything on the market...

RE friends? I never met him prior to that trip. I can proudly list Chris as a friend now though. That's not only due to his good business practices but also due to the fact that he's one of the good guys, period.

On that note? I wouldn't be surprised if he's added hundreds of friends in his short time in business. i can't say enough good about him or his products. He's won a devotee here that's for certain.

Leaving off all the particulars, his stuff is top notch and priced right and he stands behind his products. As a customer, you can't ask for more.


Blue Skies Chris, I'll get that order in for camera jacket/pants and can't wait for the tracking suit to be completed!


Jack

What he said! Chris has the best customer service in the industry! He has done absolutely everything possible to make a difficult situation good.

I now have a camera suit on order and will be ordering a freefly suit as soon as funds allow!

Blue Skies Chris!

ridebmxbikes

Think of it like this, you're about to downsize, you load yourself up with weights so you're at the same wingloading on the canopy you have now to see what the smaller one will feel before you jump it. Then you take the weights off (losing weight) and you jump the smaller one. You will probablvcome in at the same speed but the responsiveness will be a lot greater, recovery arcs longer. Everything will be higher performance and will happen faster.

No kidding! Ha I never thought about it like that! Like I said before I am happy where I am, but in a few hundred more jumps I may try just that.

OK I am back with additional question(s)

Two scenarios:

One - Jumper with 300 jumps has been jumping a 170 for 150 jumps loaded at 1.1

Two - New jumper (small female) with 60 jumps starts on a 170 loaded at <1:1.

So why would the weight and wing load here not matter? should these two not have been on a 190 until mastering the necessary skills then move to a 170? Why do some DZ(s) put smaller people on a 170 and then tell an experienced person "go master the skills necessary for that canopy?

I am starting to get the idea that the thinking here is flawed...Does anyone have experience with actually loosing 20% of their weight and downsizing?

I appreciate the constructive and instructive input!

Pacific

Leave your dog and kids at home.

Don't smoke, eat, drink in packing area.

Pick up after yourself.

Depends on the DZ. I jump at a couple DZ's that have several families that bring the kids, and they are welcomed. Teach them to respect the DZ, respect the jumpers, and help out where they can and you will be giving them an experience that none of their school friends have. Likely you will also be guiding a respectful skydiver.

davelepka

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just curious how much the weight loss should impact canopy decisions.

Zero. Canopy piloting skill, experience and currency are the only things that should influence canopy decisions. Your weight is only one aspect of the equation, and simply losing weight does not make you ready to jump a smaller canopy.

Look at your skill level and competency on your current wing, and the one you plan to downsize to on the day you plan to downsize. Everything else is just speculation and not relevant to the reality of you jumping a certain canopy on a regular basis.

Then why would there be jumpers with 100 jumps on a 170 and others with 100 jumps on a 190 and equal on every aspect other than "exit weight". It would stand to reason that wing loading should not be a factor for any jumper until they are at several hundred or even a thousand jumps, assuming that all else is equal.

I completely agree and I personally am very happy with where I am, but we as skydivers do focus on wing load when deciding on a canopy.

Just thinking out loud, not disagreeing...

grue

***So at my home DZ there are several of us that have taken the time and energy to get healthy, and loose a lot of weight! In one case nearly 60 pounds, but most of us have lost about 40 pounds each. The question of downsizing came up.

When is it acceptable to use weight loss as a reason to downsize? For me I am fine jumping a Stiletto 170 previously loaded at 1.3 and now only 1.1 because there is not a tremendous difference...but what about someone that looses 60 or 70 lbs?

I believe that one should be comfortable, current, and proficient in their current canopy. How does wing loading play into canopy size choice? Is it not similar to up-sizing to loos 20 or 30 pounds?

FYI...I am not curious so one can go out and grab a 135, just curious how much the weight loss should impact canopy decisions.

I've got a bit of experience in this realm. My first canopy was a 210sqft loaded at 1.2 or so, and then I downsized a bit later and also gained weight. Eventually I was at a 1.5 on a 190 (same model canopy as the 210). Since that peak I've lost a bit over 50lbs, and my wingload is almost back to that 1.2 (and will be below that within another 6 weeks or so).

It is DEFINITELY like being back on my original canopy to an extent, but that said since it's still smaller it's a bit more responsive. I'm a cheapass so I probably won't downsize (unless I just start stealing my girlfriend's 168 occasionally) but if it weren't a finances issue I would definitely consider it.

However, it's just like any other downsize, especially if you've become complacent on your current canopy: make sure you're prepared for every situation on your current wing before you potentially make those situations worse on a smaller one.

Im sure! I notice a difference with just my weight loss on the same canopy size. I did move to the Stiletto from a Sabre about 50 jumps ago and that I really enjoy. One of our jumpers that has lost the most has really been able to down size and is finally in a 190.

So at my home DZ there are several of us that have taken the time and energy to get healthy, and loose a lot of weight! In one case nearly 60 pounds, but most of us have lost about 40 pounds each. The question of downsizing came up.

When is it acceptable to use weight loss as a reason to downsize? For me I am fine jumping a Stiletto 170 previously loaded at 1.3 and now only 1.1 because there is not a tremendous difference...but what about someone that looses 60 or 70 lbs?

I believe that one should be comfortable, current, and proficient in their current canopy. How does wing loading play into canopy size choice? Is it not similar to up-sizing to loos 20 or 30 pounds?

FYI...I am not curious so one can go out and grab a 135, just curious how much the weight loss should impact canopy decisions.

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I have none...I find them trashy. I choose not to be with someone with tattoos.

Do you also judge others based on their clothes? How about hair color, or possibly freckles or birthmarks? What about skin color or religion? I am not saying that you are a bigot or a racist, just that making judgments about others based on your perceptions is a slippery slope....

I am highly educated, well above average intelligence and very professional. I am also fully sleeved and have many other tattoos, yet you would judge me as trashy because of the art that I have chosen to put on my body, all of which you know absolutely nothing about.

I guess that there are those that are so perfect that it makes it easy to pass judgement on others

Oh...people that have tattoos do not care if you have tattoos and do not judge you for it

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Can I ask (seriously) what careers you find worthy of pay? There is a lot of investment in most career fields both in terms of initial education and experience to improve. Even if there is love to do it, people without trust funds need to earn a living.

You seem open to DZOs earning a profit, but I am curious why you think instructors must finance 100% of their living and then spend long hours working with students (only some of which appreciate them). This (as you probably know better than me) cannot leave much time/money for their own continued education in skydiving. If one loves the sport, he/she is going to probably want some time for that too.

I completely understand that you think there is a lot to be desired in the quality of some AFF instructors, but the animosity towards the field (and thus all the instructors) is truly puzzling to me. Especially since it is far easier to make money doing tandems. (No disrespect to all the great TIs out there.)

The way I see it is this: Is my dentist doing a lousy job because he makes (good) money doing it? I can assure you that he enjoys his work as much as anyone I know. Can I stop paying him because of this? He has been doing it quite awhile now and seems to be better than ever at his craft.

Hi Becka...I can take a stab at this. There is a direct relationship in the pay for jobs and the time and money spent getting that job. I know that there are exceptions, but Dr's, lawyers, accountants etc make a lot of money because they spend a disproportional amount in getting their education, then becoming board certified. Skydivers learn to skydive, which I would hardly attribute that cost to "education" but then become a coach, possibly canopy flight courses, AFF course and are set back what, 1500 in actual training.

I think that there is something else to consider, the time actually working. As a coach I might spend a total of an hour on a jump, then what? wait for the next jump. DZ's operate with the greatest part of their expenses being variable costs so that the amount that they are paying is directly related to the amount that they bring in, that is why they pay TI's, AFF's and coaches by the jump, because that is how they are earning money.

There are likely some AFFI's out there that work 40 or more hours per week. but in that 40 hours, how many of these are actually working? How many jumps does even the most active AFFI do in a day/week? Just curious because where I jump, there are no full time instructors.

It all comes sown to supply and demand: there are enough AFFI's in the business to keep them getting paid what they do. Tthe cost of becoming an AFFI is low enough that a whole lot of people do it...

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Likely the same way, it becomes nothing more than a job and the money is seasonal, and inconsistent...kinda like working at a DZ I would imagine.

Started as a hobby, then a fun job, then just plain work.

OK, so given the above, wouldn't more money have made it a more 'viable' career?

Wouldn't the point where you 'gave up' have been further down the road if the financial rewards were more 'liveable'?

Wouldn't there be more long-term, experienced tattoo artists out there, as opposed to the pre-burnout new guys, if the situation was such that you could support a reasonable lifestyle on the tattoo money alone?

I would suggest that you apply all those question to skydiving instructors. While there will always be the problem of trying to make a living being paid per-jump, if the money was better, so would the instruction.

There would be more full-time instructors. There would be more long-time, experienced instructors who would hang in there at seasonal DZs if they didn't have to make 95% of a living off-DZ, and then fit in DZ work when the sun shines. With a larger pool of willing applicants, and more of them being long-term, experienced instructors, you're going to raise the overall level of skill and knowledge.

The key difference is that you're dealing with peoples lives in skydiving. If you can follow the basic health code/starilization procedures, an inexperiecned tattoo artsist is only going to give you a bad looking tattoo. The implications of inexperience are a bit more severe in skydiving.

Would the money make a difference? only in delaying the inevitable. The fact is that there are millions of people in millions of jobs that simply change careers. Why? Because the extrinsic value of a job is NOT the most important thing that a person looks for.

I agree that there are risks for the instructor, but there are for Firemen, Police Officers and there are more of them injured and killed at work then there are skydiving instructors. Police officers have such an inherently dangerous job that they have to wear ballistic protection. Why then do the officers in New Orleans work in such a dangerous job? It sure aint for the money. They, or at least many, do it for the intrinsic value and what it provides them with regards to a lifestyle. Why do the teachers in Chicago do their job? Pay and benefits are likely on the bottom of the list.

In career choices I believe we can choose a job with the benefits of money and vacation, or we can choose jobs that have or can give us the other things we value, such as time off, the prospect of doing something that we enjoy.

Not only is skydiving a hobby, sport, activity that is enjoyed, but for some it provides at least a partial income. Now compare that to the police officers, teachers, firefighters, etc...what they do is not likely considered "fun" or a hobby that one would take up.

Not one of my instructors was a full time instructor, and they all seem to love what they do. I believe it is so because they also are not relying on it for their primary source of income.

It all boils down to the fact that you, or any other instructor chooses to be an instructor, and the benefits or lack there of when that decision is made. The choice was not made with eyes closed.

FYI...Tattoo artists are paid per the piece or time that they are actually tattooing, much like the skydiving instructor. And like a skydiving instructor, tattoo artists spend a great deal of time preparing for the actual tattoo, which is not compensated.

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Some people get there, and stick with it, but most don't. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the of accomplished, highly experienced TIs and AFFIs I know who have quit the sport.

This ^. Don't end up hating both a job and hobby that you used to love.

Years ago I was a tattoo artist, and that is exactly what happened. ...

OK, I'll bite... how does one get burn-out as a tattoo artist?

How does someone get burn out skydiving?

Likely the same way, it becomes nothing more than a job and the money is seasonal, and inconsistent...kinda like working at a DZ I would imagine.

Started as a hobby, then a fun job, then just plain work.

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Some people get there, and stick with it, but most don't. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the of accomplished, highly experienced TIs and AFFIs I know who have quit the sport.

This ^. Don't end up hating both a job and hobby that you used to love.

Years ago I was a tattoo artist, and that is exactly what happened. ...

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I never mentioned the word "unions" before now. I know plenty about them though, likely more than you. (Do not assume that because I believe in ethical business practices that I am somehow ignorant.) I don't have any interest in debating unions with you because it is not relevant to anything I said and hopefully won't be in the future.

I'm actually not interested in debating much anything with you at this point. I just hope that if you stick around, that you actually give back since you want everyone else to give you all that education for free or close to it. (For that matter, I hope I do a good job of giving back too.)

A big thanks to all of you that take the time (paid or not) to educate the rest of us.

Look, I apologize for the fact that I came across in a way that upset you, or anyone else. I just have a real bad taste in my mouth with unions...I have managed several businesses that were union and several that were not. I never assumed that you were ignorant though.

This is in no way a reflection on you or any of the instructors that I have learned from. I want nothing for free...nothing. I was glad to pay for the instruction that I received and would gladly pay it again.

I do not undervalue the work that the instructors and coaches put into my skydiving. I appreciate all of those that have given, and that is why I am working on my ratings, no other reason.

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If I misunderstood your statement about standards, I apologize.

What does 'insanely low' mean?

$35 + slot + pack was my pay.
Is that insanely low?
It's just about the norm. Some slightly more, some slightly less.

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This aint bad really, 35 +25 for jump + 5 pack = roughly 60 bucks. You got to teach, fly for free and someone else packed for you. That is a pretty good gig.

It's best to get a job that pays your needs and skydive for the love and fun of it ln your off-time.

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I truly appreciate this last statement!

You will never be more alive than you are the instant you let go!

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Oops. Did they find it? I lost one on exit a few years ago and found it. (story here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2861976)

That is freakin awesome!

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At the end of the day, this seems to come down to choice. People can choose to be instructors with a cool job and a great work life balance. Or they can choose another career path with the associated benefits and disadvantages.

As far as I am aware, no one forces anyone to be an AFFI or a skydiving instructor. Sorry guys - I don't get your arguments. You know the salary and I am sure most of you could choose an alternative career if you wanted to. And you could choose careers that are known to pay not much, or perhaps careers that are known to pay more.

If the market "wanted" pay to increase (ie if DZ owners could afford to pay instructors more, and were willing to do so) pay would increase. It is that simple.

PS - I am not trying to criticise your choices or demean what you do, or trying to imply that instructors are not professionals who have high risk jobs. I just don't understand your logic in this argument.

I agree completely. I also want to say that I am friends with and love my AFF Instructors and Coaches, but I do not see there to be any basis for need for Unions in the skydiving world.

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So you want the people doing this full time (and thus are likely to be the most knowledgeable) to be scraping by? You want the people in charge of teaching students to save their own lives to have to scrimp on time with the students so they can afford both rent and groceries? Seriously?

Students will probably save money in the long run if their instructors pay at least keeps up with inflation. The instructor can then be expected and able to spend more time on instruction and debriefs. Less repeat dives, bad habits fixed faster, and less medical bills. A lot of instructors do these great things anyways despite it going against their best interest, but expecting them to is ridiculous.

Instructors spend hours per jump for $35 - $50. If one is part-time, maybe this isn't so bad. However, this is only in good weather and full-timers need to eat and have a roof over their head when it's raining/windy too. (Keep in mind that every time an instructor stops a student from jumping in questionable winds, he/she is choosing the student's safety over getting a paycheck.)

Learning to skydive is luxury. An expensive luxury. If you can't afford to pay your instructor a living wage, you can't afford to skydive. You too can go out and get a job the pays better so that you can be in the sport. Your job argument goes much better that way.

Really? Students save money? You are oblivious to two things: Business and the history of unions. In reality unions have been the most destructive thing to happen to the American work ethic (or any work ethic for that matter) and unions have cost the American consumer more year after year. All you have to do is look at the UAW and the American Automakers. The cost of an American car has increased at a rate far above that of inflation and for what? are they any better than their foreign counterparts.

I agree that Skydiving is a luxury, but there is also the simple law of supply and demand, and I have met plenty of people that could not afford to rush through AFF. The higher prices would drive away some (no one knows how many) students away and that means less instructors needed. Are you willing to be one of those that goes to work saying "would you like fries with that" because the demand for your job was driven away due to higher AFF courses?

I worked as a tattoo artist and it was not unlike being an instructor. And that is part of the lifestyle. If you don't like that, there is always the drive through window at Jack n the Box...

Oh..and I do have a job a great one that allows me to skydive.

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We need a union. It really is pathetic that since the early 90's pay has basically stayed the same. Impossible to make a living. Even worse it encourages instructors to spend less time with students so they can get on to the next jump.

Yay! Just another way to make jumping for new student more expensive What you need is to kick back and relax and enjoy the fact that you are getting paid for jumping and sharing something that I hope you still enjoy. If not, quit and get a job and let someone else do it.