TFFTM 1 #1 September 8, 2005 I am going ahead and preparing for my PRO rating. On Saturday morning I get to do my first smoke jump. A 3 way starburst. I know I will get some instruction Saturday from the PROs at the DZ but I wanted to hear some advice on exit strategies for this 3 way and 4way exits. I did a search on jumping smoke and they were more related to brackets and not so much on exits. Any advice would be appreciated. The jump will be made using military smoke and boot mounted brackets. Thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #2 September 8, 2005 On our team we usually exit individually and build the formation in freefall. If a piece is being chunked it usually pulls its smoke as the outside flyers break off. if it is a individual exit pull your m-18 lanyard AFTER your clear of the A/C. if your pulling your lanyard in freefall make it long enough to reach the hard ware on your leg strap. Hold the lanyard and the loop with thin rubber bands around your leg (the kind from your old newspaper delivery days). Smoke prep is a big part too. Use a "safety" pin and remove the pin, pull ring and spoon. take care not to let the hammer fire the smoke (the reason for the safety pin) then put the pullpin back with out the pull ring and spoon. Once the pin is back (remember to recock the hammer!) tie gutted 550 cord (old round parachute cord, not suspension line from a new model canopy to costly) make the cord as long as you need (if it is as long as to your hip you can do the exit pull or the freefall lanyard option (actual name used by the USAPT, Screaming Eagles, Silver Wings, All Americans and Black Daggers). Did this help? or just confuse the crap out of you? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #3 September 8, 2005 ... be darn careful when you land,,, If the smoke is still billowing....or even if it's spent. That sucker will be hot. you can burn your gear, or burn your landing area,,, In fact be prepared for small bits of residue staining your main...... ( soot , and other nasty stuff.) this can happen real easily during your descent..... I haven't worn a boot bracket in 30 years,,,, but I never cared for 'em.... Make sure you rig a line to a point that you can reach, which will enable you to get rid of the bracket if necessary.... depending on how long the cannisters burn, they could become an issue when you land.. for sure have ground crew on hand with a metal bucket and heavy gloves, to help you remove and contain the spent cannisters... ( Hot !!!! ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TFFTM 1 #4 September 9, 2005 Appreciate your replys. I am amazed on how nervous I am about this so learning every little thing is helpful. I have worked ground crew on demos since pretty much day 1. Rigging smoke, disposing of canisters, bagging and lugging equipment. However I have never seen what goes on in the plane prior to jump. I know that generally one of our guys pulls smoke on the outside of the strut (or step if a stack exit) so the audience can track the plane more easily from the ground (Cessna 182). I was concerned that since I do not like wearing anything on the right side (Pull Side) and had a canister on my left foot, and climbed all the way out, it would pose a danger for the guy next to me. But it sounds like the best idea is to>> "pull your m-18 lanyard AFTER your clear of the A/C"<< . Thanks again for the replys. I know I will get a full briefing in the morning from our PRO folks but I was just trying to get an idea what I was in for. Thanks BSBD Home of the Alabama Gang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cmchristian 0 #5 September 9, 2005 QuoteThe jump will be made using military smoke and boot mounted brackets. Dude, Be careful with that military smoke. That stuff burns hot!! I mean hot! I have watched it set stuff on fire. Someone correct me if I am wrong but it uses phosphorus (sp?) and that stuff can be hazardous. They make a skydiver smoke that heats up but doesn't get too bad. It was safe enough to tape it on to my shoe. Or you could go the flour route and strap a bag of flower on your leg (I know, "You might be a redneck if....) Chris -------- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy s#$* what a ride!'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillyVance 34 #6 September 9, 2005 What kind of smoke are you using? M18's have been outlawed for civilian use, due to the war against terror in Afghanistan and Iraq, the last I heard. Or you had to have a special permit according to Airtwardo. If you are military, then no problem. I remember doing a demo last year at Visionland, near Birmingham where two guys carried M18's (before the rule change) and the other two (me included) carried flags. The smoke jumpers used metal chains about 2 to 3 feet long strapped to their ankles with the M18 cartridge on the end, and they activated the smoke after deploying their canopies. I have three sets of 12 foot long steel cable lanyards with two Skydiver smoke grenades strapped on each that I had set up for a demo that I ended up cancelling at the last minute due to unacceptable winds. The skydiver smoke grenades are safer, not as hot, but don't put out as much volume as the M18s, which is why I put two on each lanyard. Personally, I would not want to jump smoke in freefall with it on my ankle or heel. It can be messy and leave stains on my jumpsuit, and I imagine it's a challenge to get them activated while trying to hang on a strut in 100 knot air speed. I like to jump from 5000 feet, low enough for people on the ground to follow the plane and the dot falling from the plane. Deploy at 4500 to 4000 feet, activate and drop the smoke on the lanyard, do some slow spirals and figure 8's or barber poles under canopy, it's a nice visual for the spectators. And the smoke should have run out by the time you land anyway. Hope this helps!"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TFFTM 1 #7 September 11, 2005 I can't remember the designator but is was not m18 (Maybe it wasn't military smoke). I jumped one white smoke and the second was red. In freefall I could feel the heat but it was not uncomfortable. The second jump I had trouble with the pin and popped it under canopy and had no trouble at all. All in all it went great and I learned alot from the Pros at the DZ. In response to your post billy: The one I popped under canopy, according to those on the ground, was better than the FF smoke. Your right it burned out about 1.5 minutes before touch down. I liked that far better than the freefall smoke because they do not last that long. Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and concerns. Its all about safety. - Thanks guys. - Daniel BSBD Home of the Alabama Gang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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matthewcline 0 #2 September 8, 2005 On our team we usually exit individually and build the formation in freefall. If a piece is being chunked it usually pulls its smoke as the outside flyers break off. if it is a individual exit pull your m-18 lanyard AFTER your clear of the A/C. if your pulling your lanyard in freefall make it long enough to reach the hard ware on your leg strap. Hold the lanyard and the loop with thin rubber bands around your leg (the kind from your old newspaper delivery days). Smoke prep is a big part too. Use a "safety" pin and remove the pin, pull ring and spoon. take care not to let the hammer fire the smoke (the reason for the safety pin) then put the pullpin back with out the pull ring and spoon. Once the pin is back (remember to recock the hammer!) tie gutted 550 cord (old round parachute cord, not suspension line from a new model canopy to costly) make the cord as long as you need (if it is as long as to your hip you can do the exit pull or the freefall lanyard option (actual name used by the USAPT, Screaming Eagles, Silver Wings, All Americans and Black Daggers). Did this help? or just confuse the crap out of you? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #3 September 8, 2005 ... be darn careful when you land,,, If the smoke is still billowing....or even if it's spent. That sucker will be hot. you can burn your gear, or burn your landing area,,, In fact be prepared for small bits of residue staining your main...... ( soot , and other nasty stuff.) this can happen real easily during your descent..... I haven't worn a boot bracket in 30 years,,,, but I never cared for 'em.... Make sure you rig a line to a point that you can reach, which will enable you to get rid of the bracket if necessary.... depending on how long the cannisters burn, they could become an issue when you land.. for sure have ground crew on hand with a metal bucket and heavy gloves, to help you remove and contain the spent cannisters... ( Hot !!!! ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TFFTM 1 #4 September 9, 2005 Appreciate your replys. I am amazed on how nervous I am about this so learning every little thing is helpful. I have worked ground crew on demos since pretty much day 1. Rigging smoke, disposing of canisters, bagging and lugging equipment. However I have never seen what goes on in the plane prior to jump. I know that generally one of our guys pulls smoke on the outside of the strut (or step if a stack exit) so the audience can track the plane more easily from the ground (Cessna 182). I was concerned that since I do not like wearing anything on the right side (Pull Side) and had a canister on my left foot, and climbed all the way out, it would pose a danger for the guy next to me. But it sounds like the best idea is to>> "pull your m-18 lanyard AFTER your clear of the A/C"<< . Thanks again for the replys. I know I will get a full briefing in the morning from our PRO folks but I was just trying to get an idea what I was in for. Thanks BSBD Home of the Alabama Gang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmchristian 0 #5 September 9, 2005 QuoteThe jump will be made using military smoke and boot mounted brackets. Dude, Be careful with that military smoke. That stuff burns hot!! I mean hot! I have watched it set stuff on fire. Someone correct me if I am wrong but it uses phosphorus (sp?) and that stuff can be hazardous. They make a skydiver smoke that heats up but doesn't get too bad. It was safe enough to tape it on to my shoe. Or you could go the flour route and strap a bag of flower on your leg (I know, "You might be a redneck if....) Chris -------- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy s#$* what a ride!'" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #6 September 9, 2005 What kind of smoke are you using? M18's have been outlawed for civilian use, due to the war against terror in Afghanistan and Iraq, the last I heard. Or you had to have a special permit according to Airtwardo. If you are military, then no problem. I remember doing a demo last year at Visionland, near Birmingham where two guys carried M18's (before the rule change) and the other two (me included) carried flags. The smoke jumpers used metal chains about 2 to 3 feet long strapped to their ankles with the M18 cartridge on the end, and they activated the smoke after deploying their canopies. I have three sets of 12 foot long steel cable lanyards with two Skydiver smoke grenades strapped on each that I had set up for a demo that I ended up cancelling at the last minute due to unacceptable winds. The skydiver smoke grenades are safer, not as hot, but don't put out as much volume as the M18s, which is why I put two on each lanyard. Personally, I would not want to jump smoke in freefall with it on my ankle or heel. It can be messy and leave stains on my jumpsuit, and I imagine it's a challenge to get them activated while trying to hang on a strut in 100 knot air speed. I like to jump from 5000 feet, low enough for people on the ground to follow the plane and the dot falling from the plane. Deploy at 4500 to 4000 feet, activate and drop the smoke on the lanyard, do some slow spirals and figure 8's or barber poles under canopy, it's a nice visual for the spectators. And the smoke should have run out by the time you land anyway. Hope this helps!"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TFFTM 1 #7 September 11, 2005 I can't remember the designator but is was not m18 (Maybe it wasn't military smoke). I jumped one white smoke and the second was red. In freefall I could feel the heat but it was not uncomfortable. The second jump I had trouble with the pin and popped it under canopy and had no trouble at all. All in all it went great and I learned alot from the Pros at the DZ. In response to your post billy: The one I popped under canopy, according to those on the ground, was better than the FF smoke. Your right it burned out about 1.5 minutes before touch down. I liked that far better than the freefall smoke because they do not last that long. Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and concerns. Its all about safety. - Thanks guys. - Daniel BSBD Home of the Alabama Gang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
