Auryn

Amen to this. If it is physically possible to shorten your loop such that ALL grommets stack PERFECTLY upon each other (no matter how improbable you think this is) you're going to die.

The canopy has about 15 jumps on it. He says he was flat and stable when he deployed. He does have a fast fall rate though, but its never been an issue before? Does he have enough experience to really know if he was flat and stable? I got slammed by a spectre 150 when I had about 450 jumps, with about 10,000 packjobs working as a professional packer. At the time I packed the rig I didn't know I was going to jump it (it was a team rig) so it was "double blind". Still got slammed "dookie happens".

They died.

There is a big difference between getting out of a jump plane at jump-run speed and an airliner at cruise speed. The latter would most likely be fatal as the recent air france crash has shown.

It's a fun thought, but the results from the recent air france crash indicate that you'd be instantaneously fatally injured by the airstream upon being thrown from the A/C at cruise speed.

My only chop was on a borrowed rig with double softs, at about 450 jumps. I've always owned and drilled on rigs with a metal reserve handle. Since I was taught "peel, pull, chop.. peel, pull, live" on the metal handle system, I didnt have any probs for the transition. As far as concerns about seeing the handles-in my mal I went 100 percent by feel and double checked it before execution.

The best performing option I've seen is the latter. What you give up is what you've already mentioned-a pain to make and install. It can be tempting at time to go with nothing, however, Ive seen tandem links side-load and lock canopies into linetwist.

Yes, it comes back like riding a bike. However, just like riding a bike, take a couple test rides before you go big. Do a currency dive, then ease back into "going big" in freeflying. Starting again after this long a layoff your "envelope" has been reset; wait a bit to push it.

Blue Skies Harry.

Update to this thread: I've installed the parasport chin cup on a hawkeye, with a bonehead cutaway system. There is one BIG advantage to the parasport chin cup that I like: Tab A locks the cup to the ratchets. Tab B tightens the chin cup along the ratchets, allowing you to level your cameras based on what your ring sight is telling you about horizontal orientation of the cameras on your head. Very Nice. BK

This is a sort of spinoff thread from the incident forum about the base jumper that went in from a helo in Cinci, OH. The question that seemed to be brought up was "are base mains safer than skydiving reserves b/c they are packed more or less the same way as reserves and are (mostly) deployed at the correct altitude, while stable, whereas skydiving reserves are (as was implied) not deployed stable?" I think the incident report, and many others from base indicate otherwise. There is a critical component missing from this post. BASE mains are by and large throw-outs while skydiving reserves are ripcords w/ a spring loaded PC. The deployment system makes the difference between the two IMO (and I've read all the skydiving fatality reports since 1998 and ALL the base reports) Bryan

Cool.. thanks. I'll give them a call and see if they take the same size ratchet straps.

since arrowdynamics is out of business, does anyone have or know where to get a replacement chin cup for a hawkeye? black preferred, but I can repaint it. Bryan

From what one of the TIs is saying, they're getting a squirrelly snivel, then "POP" versus the sigma that sort of unfolds once it's done sniveling. I don't have personal experience with a PA opening, so I can't give more of a description than that. Bryan

My DZ uses 50 percent Sigma mains and 50 percent Precision mains and the TIs are asking about improving the openings on the Precisions. Our packers use the same way to pack each, a standard pro pack. The Sigmas are opening so much better than the Precisions that the TIs are hesitant to jump the Precisions unless they absolutely have to. The sizes on the Precisions range from 365s to 400s and the DOM of all our gear is early 2007. Any suggestions out there? Thanks Bryan Klindworth

I've opened into a simple step through (straight through the middle of the line groups).. and I can understand that type of step through being packed; the only way to tell is the twist in the risers. However, your step through is QUITE UNIQUE :) that is a big nasty mess of a step through that I could not imagine ANYONE packing into a packjob. It looks like a multiple step through, the type caused by moving a rig and having it flip sideways through line groups. (which, as a packer, I've seen and caused plenty of times, but never packed) I landed mine; your's, not so much. GOOD WTF!!! :) great reaction time and decision making. No idea how someone managed to pack that without noticing. I cracked up when you looked up and said "what the..." Glad you're okay.

There are several ways to deal with line twists that have been posted on this board.. there's room for debate among all of them, but I've personally used or seen most of them work. From your twisting method, to pulling down on the most tense side to get the canopy to even out, to just pulling in your arms toward your body to increase the centrifical force re: the canopy (this was on a velo 96 in a dive... when he brought his arms in for handles, the lines untwisted) However, KISS is the best way. Like the way I was taught, which I don't even really see any more "you cutaway below 1000 feet you die. Got it?" this was in the days of the good ol FXC. Bryan

Now that I've had a couple of days to think about this, I still can't reconcile it. This sport is supposed to be 100 percent about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your life. It's what's taught to students from day 1. However, what kind of example can we as a community be for them, if we don't take PERSONAL responsibility for what we say and do? I see things becoming more and more like the corporate world where "the buck stops....... somewhere other than me." And how does this help the current image problems we have? People bitch about the media (which DZ.com is part of) and then only give details about some serious things with hidden identities. It's the same thing as appearing on CBS news with your face hidden, voice disguised, and then turning around and saying "TAKE ME (US) SERIOUSLY!!! WE'RE REALLY ON THE UP AND UP!!!" We tell students to take personal responsibility for their lives, which they should, and HAVE to do, yet not take our own? how hypocritical is that? Especially when people are more than happy to take personal responsibility for record swoops, record formations, etc? but not the rest? I guess I'm not "towing the party line" here, but I can't do it. I don't run around saying "I saw this, I saw that etc..." but if asked of information about something that's already in the domain of public knowledge, I will either: not give it at all; or give it and put my name behind it. I guess this comes down to two points: if you're willing to say something, say it, as an adult, with your name attached, or NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. Let some other schmuch, who doesn't know better, like me, do it and take responsibility for it. To lawyers, these troll accounts (and I refuse to call them anything better) reporting details of incidents JUST MAKES THINGS LOOK WORSE!!! IT MAKES US LOOK LIKE WE HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. That's the bottom line IMO.

This collision happened to my best friend 7 seconds after he deployed. Luckily the freefaller went through the front of my friend's canopy and not his body. However, what happened to him from the harness rebound made riser slap look like a tickle. To make things worse, the freefaller, in a panic, deployed right above him. His PC was out but thankfully, nothing entangled. this is a very real risk.

I have to disagree with you here. You should be developing your eyes as your primary instrument for altitude awareness, especially under canopy. The visual or audible altimeters won't tell you the altitude difference between you and the canopies around you. Your eyes can give you at least an approximation... Never 100 percent accurate, but it's a skill you want to start working on now, because on otter loads, boogies, etc, you're going to (or should be) paying a LOT of attention to the canopies around you. And instruments don't help you worth a damn re: such. to add: under canopy: I think, at times, audible alerts can be more harmful than beneficial. I think there is such a thing as TOO much information. I've always flown my canopy by feel, without too much planned beforehand so I can "feel" the other canopies, "feel" the air and "sense" the ground, so I can fly defensively. If someone hoses my approach, so be it; I've got 2 or 3 outs already in mind. I do continously double check w/ my alti, but "feel" comes first; it's the first reaction in an emergency. I don't want my canopy flight to be too rigidly structured unless I'm getting out alone on a low pass. The ground is but the last thing that can kill you on a skydive.

Ill bet thats because the twisting the risers hasn't been used thousands of times. Also, what could go wrong with this method? a student could then, in this process of getting creative, deviate further from their training and neglect other things like alitude and situational awareness.

I think these are viable options for a potential victim to communicate. Maybe there could be a way to make it more authoritative, something like a DNR filed at manifest? Like AggieDave said earlier, there are people that have survived accidents that later they might've wished they didn't. Online, I saw another: Although this thread is fairly old, I think that most of the information is still valuable. However, I do want to ask if a sticker such as those above on a helmet can lead to problems potentially? In a real accident aid situation, would anybody even notice something like this? By the way, there is a course presented in California on accident scene management which mentions training for those providing assistance to helmeted victims. http://www.accidentscene.net/ - David

These things have always been risks of the sport. My question is, why, just recently, are people turning to anonymity? I haven't heard of any specific event that would be a clear cause of this. How many DZ's you been thrown off for not touting the party line? Or how DZO's have you had get in your face and threaten to throw you off because of what you do or say off the dz? How many deaths or incidents have you been involved in where you could be called in to court to testify and have your words/post used in court? When you can answer that, then you'll understand why people feel the need to remain unknown. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Quote

I've not been thrown off any DZ for not towing the party line, although I have been completely chastised at one b/c of something I said online back in the days of wreck.dot for not towing the party line. They'll still take my money, but not allow me to be involved beyond that. I've been involved in one serious incident that might've ended up in court; At the time, and during my following actions, I never thought about remaining anonymous. The factors you mention are very real factors-and they are the factors that I think some people should start to think about a bit more, re: our community as a whole. I don't remember, until recently, that people were pressured to remain anonymous. re: the legal issues: and this is an honest question-how many lawsuits against DZs, or anyone else protected under the waiver, have actually been successful? I don't know of any, and if there were any, I'd think it'd be ALL over the news. So, I guess that's the next point of discussion: forget the DZ politics, what about the legal end? If you have specifics and don't want to post them, you can PM me and I'll keep my mouth shut. How many DZ's you been thrown off for not touting the party line? Or how DZO's have you had get in your face and threaten to throw you off because of what you do or say off the dz? How many deaths or incidents have you been involved in where you could be called in to court to testify and have your words/post used in court? When you can answer that, then you'll understand why people feel the need to remain unknown.

I've seen that, more and more frequently lately, the people who've witnessed and/or have first hand info on incidents are posting details under troll accounts. It's obvious by their posts that they're experienced jumpers; why do you think it is that they feel pressure to do things this way? I think this is a very valid safety and training question-why can't people come forward and say "here's who I am, and here's what I saw/obtained first hand info about...."