peek

Wendy, Thank you for continuing to point out why it is difficult impossible to devise a (fair) recommended wing loading document. It is not just wingloading, it is a number of variables that, when all are properly considered, would require a matrix (or chart) of numbers that would be impossible to understand. We just need to convince these jumpers that are so eager to "downsize" that they should educate themselves about what these smaller canopies can do before getting one.

First Don, now Bill. Not a good year for skydiving. When we got emails from Chris N. giving us updates on Bill's condition, he said he would pass along messages. Well, I waited about a day too long. By the time I thought of a message to send Bill, Chris said he was unresponsive. So folks, there is a lesson for us. Don't wait too long to tell your friends important things. My message to Bill? "Bill, you can't get sick and die on us now. We have a lot more drinking to do together at BOD meetings!"

Thank you for saying that before I had to. This has been discussed many times of course, but for all of you who may not have thought about it for a while, Start thinking "entertainment tax". If I were you I would call it "instruction", unless you are interested in having some government agency start wanting to collect it. carnival ride = entertainment instruction = maybe not (at least you have an argument against it) . .

A few minutes ago I read Richard Schachner's email telling me of Don's death, and I'm shocked. He is one of the last people I would expect to hear that kind of news about. I'm going to miss him. He was one of skydiving's true "characters", and he held _so_ much knowledge. Skydiving has been dealt a cruel blow today.

I don't hate them, but all of those spaces for entries sure are overkill for many applications. As you might guess, if I have recorded all of that info for someone's gear once in a particular logbook, I don't repeat it until it is recorded for the first time in a later logbook. Seems some rigger a while back was harrassed by someone from the FAA who insisted that he was not keeping complete enough records using the previous design logbook. So the rigging industry got scared and someone designed a "cover your ass" logbook with spaces for everything. (rigger Rob, something tells me you know all the details about this.)

Thanks, I guess I was thinking slider "bumpers" on the links when you said slider "stops". Yes, I recall back then some manufacturers had an "Oh, shit we forgot about that" when they used some slider stops that were flexible enough to bend and allow the grommets to get caught on them. Anyone: Are there any canopies made now that would allow a #8 grommet to get caught? It would seem not, so that is why I initially asked. But of course some folks don't learn from history....

Malfunctions? Examples please?

Well Bill, that's what I thought, but a while back I was told by someone that he thought they (the FF regulars, more or less) were doing tracking dives to "learn how to track better". (This could explain why it seemed to me like the OP was implying that FF's were better at tracking!) You and I flying in the same direction in very close proximity (tracking?) sounds like fun to me, but apparantly some people are calling it the same thing but having something completely different in mind.

See the attached picture. I was going through my large stack of business cards that I have received over the years from skydivers and people in the industry, and was both delighted and saddened when I found the card that Robin Wilcox gave me years ago. I first met Robin when we were going through an AFF course years ago, and later jumped with him and Pud at the WFFC some years later. I think it was that jump where we all landed off, and the Skydive Sebastion bus was at the WFFC that year to pick up people landing off. I remember Pub sitting on the hood of the bus on the way back with his nose into the wind. A funny sight. I miss them.

Florida jumpers-who is this guy? Over the years he has jumped with a group of us at the WFFC. His first name is Tom, he is about 50 years old, and he said in the past that he jumped at DeLand. Until the last few years he used to jump without goggles. See attached picture.

Base841: I've spoken to tandem instructors from other DZs and based on my small sample, found few who even let their students attempt to pull. Why? peek: Because they are too lazy to teach them. Usually a student will do or try to do what we teach them. It is human nature to want to learn and to perform well. Sometimes students need to be encouraged to go ahead and try to do something. Sometimes this takes a bit more work than just letting it go. This is what separates the really good instructors from the carneys. My favoraite thing about Tandem instruction is the student that is convinced they want me to "do everything" and I convince them to try to do it themselves and teach them how. After the jump they are _always_ glad they did it. The important thing to remember is that Tandem jumping has been treated as a carnival ride by so many entities that your student may expect _their_ jump to be one of those. If you don't put forth the effort to teach them how much more it can be then you are perpetuating this unfortunate part of a great training method.

OK, did everyone understand that question? I'm surprised at the lack of response! Packers? What kind of excess brake line stowage do these student rigs have, if any?

I was interested in what student rigs you all are familiar with and what kind of excess brake line stowage system they have, e.g., Velcro strap, elastic pocket, etc. I forgot to check up on this at the PIA Symposium '05, and I'm thinking I'll get more answers by asking you all here anyway.

Mark: Gary, Are you saying that there is a daily skydiver rate / visitor rate for the WFFC available? Gary: Beginning this year, yes, a daily skydiver rate. It was a much requested change after WFFC 2004. (I think there has been a daily visitor rate/band for many years. You might ask Beth M.) Unfortunately, since print ads are created many months in advance, things like that do not tend to get published in Parachutist and Skydiving magazine ads.

OK, one more time: You can "pull" at whatever altitude you wish as long as you have a fully open canopy no higher than 3000 feet.

OK, one more time folks: You can "pull" at whatever altitude you wish as long as you have a fully open canopy no higher than 3000 feet.

Jeth: Even though I live not far from there, I didn't go to WFFC cuz I was scared. Peek: Dear, where are you getting your information about the WFFC? What have you been told about: J: With the low minimum opening altitude P: What were you told that was? J: the frequency of jump runs, P: How often have you been told they occur? J: the number of canopies in the air P: How may have you been told are in the air at once and landing at the same time? J: the unpredictable landing patterns P: I saw a few. I did not see any collisons or even close calls. I did see someone snag a fellow jumper's canopy after landing (in the same direction) but they were both in the main landing area. There are plenty of wide open landing areas, for example, where the AFF students land! J: the potential for people to be doing crazy/stupid things in the air (especially after boozing all night) P: True, they could. But I must say that it is far more dangerous at the Convention at night! J: and the opening over a town P: Quite true, but with gigantic landing areas nearby. J: Why can't they do a daily rate or visitor rate or something like that? P: Did someone tell you the WFFC didn't? Misinformation about the WFFC abounds. We have even experienced bad-mouthing by DZO's who do not want you to go to the WFFC and have fun because they will lose a (small) amount of your business, and even go to the extreme of telling you how "scary" it is to keep you away. Please consider your sources. Anyone with common sense and a good attitude about saftey will do quite well there.

I'm sorry you have misinterpreted the maximum opening altitude, so I feel like I need to state it properly so others reading your post understand it. Maximum altitude for a fully open canopy is 3000 feet, which means you select your deployment altitude to take into account how quickly your canopy opens. Taking that into consideration there is no need to ever "pull" at 2500.

That is exactly why it was changed, because we got questions from people just like that who wondered why they could not attend as a Skydiver when they had that kind of experience. Also, those with a license but not 50 freefalls (called "Novices") were required to jump one-on-one with an instructional rating holder, treating it just like any other "coached" jump, meaning _complete_ supervision, including procedures commensurate with the Novice's experience. A detailed guide for the supervising instructional rating holder was given to those doing this. As it turned out, we had few "Novices" registered like that, so we won't have an answer to how well it works this year.

PJ: This was a big problem last year, due mostly to the fact that there was one tiny windsock out in the main landing area. Peek: This is the second posting I have seen you make about the "tiny" wind sock situation at the WFFC. When we first had the Convention at Rantoul I made the TWO (not one) windsocks that are in the main landing area. I did this because I was not sure whether the airport windsock would be suitable for skydiving and I did not know if there was a tetrahedron. I also thought that getting a windsock for skydiving might be overlooked by Staff due to all of the other work required in changing airports for the Convention. Since I have done that each year I suppose everyone has made the assumption that the WFFC has done that and not me personally. The windsocks I bring are "small" compared to an airport windsock which does not need to inflate at as low a wind speed as does an airport windsock, but they are not exactly "tiny". I can see them easily from 3000 feet. I have also determined that yellow is the most easily seen color, and that is why I changed the orientation of the red/yellow windsock so that the yellow is toward the sky. (The pretty red/yellow deal is visible from the ground.) There are something like 15 flags along International Blvd., and too many windblades to count. I use them ALL, and suggest that everyone take into consideration all available wind indicators when skydiving anywhere.

Bill, Just in case you save that list...... 5. Make everyone practice PLF's from a high platform until they are experts at them, then make everyone do a PLF on every landing that is not expected to be a tippy-toe zero speed landing.

"We don't need no stinking pre-registration" OK, so the WFFC web site took (or may still be taking) a hike and pre-registration has not been (is not) available. (I've never seen such bad timing!) So some of you might need to stand in line a bit longer at Registration, and I'm sorry. Oh, well, once you get that out of the way I promise the fun will begin. I sure got a lot done today, getting all the Load Organizer documents updated and printed (later than in previous years I must admit!) Tore open all the boxes of LO stuff, and was amused at what I found. (I store it after each Convention and don't look at it until a few weeks before the next. It's kind of like a one year time capsule.) Todd's weights he conplains about losing (every year), several pairs of sunglasses, old load sheets, a formation notebook and rubber stamp that has been in there I swear for 5 years, the night jump manifest!!! No, I have no idea whether we are doing that again, but if you are even thinking about it you had better have your own strobe light. The funniest thing to me (I'm easily amused sometimes) is that some of the ink pens we have had tied to some of the sign-up clipboards for 5 years still write. After all that time in the heat. The reunion begins very soon.

In your locked car. For anyone else that is worried about having to walk a long way- There are so many people riding around on golf carts at any given time that all you need to do is ask and someone will give you a ride.

plowdirt: !! KEEP YOUR HEAD ON A SWIVLE !! peek: always excellent advice. plowdirt: ... OPEN HIGH. peek: Please do not do this! From WFFC documents: At the Convention there will be multiple aircraft dropping loads of jumpers over the same areas at short intervals. In order to insure that jumpers from an earlier load have descended below the opening area for the later load, you must not open high! You need to plan your deployment altitude so that you have a fully open canopy no higher than 3000 feet AGL, and you are expected to be familiar with the opening characteristics of the canopy you will jumping in order to do this. If you are jumping a demo canopy, you should consult the supplier of the canopy for advice on its opening characteristics. If you experience a premature deployment or other situation that places you above 3000 feet under canopy, you must either quickly descend below 3000 feet or fly your canopy away from the jump run in order to provide clear airspace for the later jumpers.

Jen: Though with a whopping 80 jumps, it doesn't really matter what I think. Gary: Well of course it does! I made this post hoping for many responses from jumpers with experience like yours. It just happens that the first few responses were from people with a lot of experience. Folks: I ask this question of everyone. Please don't let another person's response keep you from responding or make you think there is anything wrong with your distances.