mpreil

If you're nervous about the night jump - which you should be, I've seen you skydive

I had a really interesting talk with one of the best swoopers at our DZ just a few weeks ago. I hope I can capture what he said correctly. (Iwan, let's talk to E this weekend and see if he has anything to add) It's not just the landing area where swoopers and non-swoopers need to work together to be safe. It starts a lot higher up. When a guy on a tiny HP canopy opens up, as soon as he has his slider stowed and all of the other stuff taken care of, he's got about 10 seconds to be somewhere he needs to be to start his approach. It's not just a boat doing a straight in from 1000 feet out he's worried about, it's anyone who is out of the pattern slowly crossing or spiraling through his descent . Potentially disastrous conflicts can start 1,000-1,500 feet up. Many non-swoopers (I include me) don't really consider this. After talking to E and understanding his thought process a bit better, I am now making an effort to get out of the way much earlier, get into a clear pattern earlier, and keep to the side of the DZ away from the swoopers much higher up. And even that's not enough if the wind shifts or the spot is off . And of course it gets messier if someone decides he's going for a downwind landing. I think the day is coming where in addition to declaring HP vs. non-HP landing areas, we're going to have to start marking out "pattern space" much higher up. The difference in canopy speeds and flying styles is simply becoming too great. It's just like mixing free fliers and RW jumpers in the exit (another long painful thread): It took a long time and a lot of discussion to understand how to manage the mix. Yes we're all skydivers, but we take very different 3D trajectories from the door to the ground.

Same story in Northern California. Byron was 100 degrees at 10 AM and hit a high of 114. The RW gang all hung it up at 2 PM and headed out for cold beers. How hot was it? Gareth actually took off his jump suit between loads. (Fortunately, he was not wearing the Shorts of Power).

I did this driving home from the DZ in September. Driving past the windmills at Byron, I came around a curve at 60 MPH and hit - I am not kidding - a pile of manure that had spilled on the road. I spun 270 degrees, went off the road, skidded up a hill sideways, smashed the back of the truck into the side of the hill, spun back 180 degrees and smashed the front. It cost me $1,000 (US) but I was pretty happy because as it was happening I was 100% sure the truck was going to roll over and hurt me very, very badly. By comparison, the money didn't matter. A month later I lost my job, so the money seemed a lot more important, but I'm still happy with the outcome. Moshe

The last line sounds like Gareth just got engaged. Again.

Why should it take so long? Just click on the "View Results" link at the top of the page.

You got it. The key word there is "compromise". The laws of gravity and aerodynamics work the same in New Zealand as they do here, and their economics aren't that much different either, so they aren't suddenly going to invent a new aircraft with a faster climb rate, higher payload, and lower operating cost. Something has to give somewhere - in this case, it's less room per person, an incredibly noisy interior, and a hellacious prop blast across the door, among other things. The other JP likes to say "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Well, there ain't no such thing as a cheaper, larger, faster, more comfortable skydiving aircraft either.

1) Aircraft, aircraft, aircraft. Please don't lump them into "facilities"; I'll settle for PortaPotties if we have a good plane. 2) Skydiving Disciplines (a fleet of Skyvans doesn't do me much good if there's no one doing RW) 3) Driving time (another old guy answer: I have a 2 hour radius of travel, so all those Otters in Arizona are a bit out of reach)

We went from 1st to 3rd in 9 seconds. I'd say that was pretty efficient use of our time. Regardless of how it affected the final score, I really don't think they cheated. The rules said the clock starts when the first jumper's head crosses the plane of the door. So it's perfectly legal to hang a guy outside of the plane by his neck as long as his head is inside the aircraft. Next time, you just have the write the rules more carefully. Remember - these are skydivers we're talking about. Thanks again, Mad John. It was all good. Moshe aka "Ground Rush"

"Everything happened as planned on that jump" As planned by who? I'm sure the DZO didn't plan it that way. I'm sure manifest didn't plan the jump that way. I'm sure the people he jumped with didn't dirt dive that. I'm sure the pilot, the other jumpers and everyone on the DZ didn't plan to spend the day like that. This forum is about our collective experience in the sport. It is appropriate to discuss what we can collectively observe and do for the greater good of the community. As far as I can see, no one is "speculating". I haven't seen anyone say there was any specific clue they should have observed. The comments have all been general; we need to exercise some collective awareness that this possibility does exist, and it will hurt us if we don't at least try to prevent it. I am saying specifically that acts like this have an unfortunate tendency to spawn imitators, and that all of us should be increasingly aware of the risk that such a potential imitator might be sitting next to us on the plane. So do all of us a favor: At some point this weekend, ask one person "How are you doing?" as if you really mean it. If that's not an appropriate use of this forum, I give up.

I beg to differ. In the general public's mind, these incidents "prove" that all skydivers are basically suicidal. We all have a "death wish", and it doesn't take much to make us act on it. That's what the world sees - and this hurts us. It causes problems when you apply for a job, it causes problems with insurance, it causes problems with families. How much do you want to bet that some insurance company in the world today is about to add a clause excluding skydiving related deaths because it's too easy to kill yourself and have your family collect because it looks like an accident? Look at the number of incidents in the fatalities database that are listed as confirmed or possible suicides and tell me this isn't going to make it harder to get insurance for skydivers. For those who say this discussion is pointless and hurts the family and friends of the deceased, all I can say is I'm sorrry for your loss, but this forum isn't for condolences and hugs- it's for open discussion. The rules are clearly posted. And we do need to discuss this and remind everyone to keep an eye out for this behavior. This is not a one of a kind event; it happens at least once or twice a year and- here's the key issue - there is a clear copy cat effect. Note how close these 2 incidents in the UK are to the announcement that last year's fatality waas also a suicide. Irrational behavior generates imitation. Since we can't keep people from hearing the news, our best defense of to make sure we are informed. Keep an eye out for borderline behavior to protect yourself, your friends, and your sport.

Check out this CRW attempt NASA will be trying in September. They're going to try to catch a small sample return capsule dropping in from space using a helipcopter. The goal is to bring home samples of the solar wind that the Genesis spacecraft has collected over the past 2 years. I can't wait to see the video. Maybe they need volunteers for practice runs.... http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/

This is what I love about JP. He's actually optimistic enough to think he'll live to be 59. Moshe

The weather forecast does suck, especially since I can only make it out on Saturday. But the link to Yahoo weather gave me a good laugh. They run ads with pop-over animations; the ad they were running when I checked it had a guy freefalling (in a suit and tie, no less). I was wondering how Lummy got the little skydiver onto the web site until the animation added "I lowered my cholesterol!". Turns out it's an ad for Honey Nut Cheerios.

JP took the "easy" out; the large cloverleaf on the east side of the freeway. I landed in the tiny cloverleaf on the northwest side, and it was so much fun I ended up there again the next day. It looks like a nice big area until you notice the power lines, the tractor, and the giant wood pile right in the middle. You can't see them on the video capture, but trust me, they are there. The best was watching Keith downwind it across the cloverleaf- he left a rooster trail from one corner to the extreme opposite corner. And it was all good... 2 point 60 way, beer, a DZ wedding Saturday night, more beer, great skydives with old friends I haven't seen in too long, and - despite the early spots - the pilots did a fantastic job dialing in the exits. When we left from the right trail plane, the base would be right smack in front of us. This had a lot to do with the success of the entire weekend. A great job by all - especially Bill Shipley, Gareth and Charlie as plane captains (and Mad John as substitute on Sunday), and Big Al as coach and general motivator. As Al said, it was awesome watching how well the "Tree People" and the "Hangar People" played together. Moshe