thomas.n.thomas

I vote not to require for both; HOWEVER, there are certain caveats. DZO can decide if he lets no-AAD jumpers jump. Remember, someone dying or getting injured doesn't just affect that person, but the DZ jumpers, staff, owner, etc. Split the insurance pools. Those who wear/use some minimum level of gear/protective equipment/safety devices and those who don't. Costs would adjust accordingly. No dragging everyone who chooses to be safer down. I'm not sure what the legal ramifications are, but I'm not sure why this isn't already done. Coverage dependent upon compliance. If you sign up with a company that says you'll wear a moto helmet every time you're on a bike and you wreck without one on, then they don't have to cover anything (breach of contract). I'm all for the freedom to make your own stupid choices, but the argument that only the person making the choice is affected is thin at best. At least take the responsibility and admit that you are making a choice that is worth the potential consequence to you AND those that care about you.

Missed out on this thread! I have been riding a few years, but now only ride track days. My recommendation for the BRC is the opposite. Pick the hottest, sunniest day you can, and get used to sweating through your clothes. You're only in a long sleeve and jeans anyways, so it's nothing compared to what you should be wearing on the street. Get quality gear when you get your bike, and wear it all the time. No sneakers, board shorts, or any of that stupid crap I see out on the road. Wear quality leather or textile gear with pads/armor. Wear real motorcycle boots, and a full face helmet. Trust me on this. Been in two crashes so far on the track, none on the street, but gear is an absolute must. For those that will rock the 3/4 helmet, yeah it's nice to have wind in your face, but not nice to have asphalt there. Look at the statistics of impacts to the chin area in street crashes. It will make you reconsider. What kind of bike are you looking to get? What kind of riding do you plan on doing? My recommendation is to avoid sportbikes unless you plan on tracking them. I rode an R6 for a year on the street and it was boring and uncomfortable. Take that same bike to the track and it's worlds of fun. My next street bike will be a Triumph Tiger or something along those lines. Oh yeah, and the box is easy so long as you remember, you go where you look. You will think you are turning your head to look through a turn but you are not turning it enough.

Jump #5, I was about 800 ft turning onto base - "way too high," I think and decide to kick out the base leg a bit. Turn in on final a bit high still but I'm a good hundred yds plus behind the treeline (small trees) and a fence. I start slowing down, point of impact keeps creeping back towards the trees. I have a good 20 seconds or so to decide to heck with this, make a braked turn and land in the wide open field before the fence. Nope. I think, "no low turns, no low turns, no low turns" from ~400 ft up all the way into one of the trees. Busted my ankle up and took me a year to get back to jumping. On the plus side, I did pick up motorcycling that Summer because I didn't have to put much pressure on my heels.

Not sure on the Army side, but unless there is a newer version out, OPNAVINST 5100.25B: d. High-risk recreational activities. This identifies those non-mission related activities that may present an elevated risk of serious injury or death to the participant and bystanders, and could receive a risk assessment code (RAC) of 1 or 2 based upon the individual circumstances of each undertaking. Examples of recreational activities that may be considered high-risk, based upon individual circumstances of each undertaking, include, but are not limited to: skydiving, rock and mountain climbing, cliff diving, scuba diving, hunting, bull riding, racing motorized vehicles, boating, boxing, bungee jumping, air ballooning, motorcycle riding, and parasailing. Operating a privately owned vehicle for local transportation purposes and routine home auto repairs generally does not fall into the category of high-risk recreational activities. NOTE: All recreational activities should be reviewed to determine whether they fall into a high-risk category. Appropriate safety precautions should be implemented for those that do. Members shall consult their command policy on high-risk recreational activities before engaging in any recreational activities that are high-risk and receive a RAC 1 or 2 per reference (j). Ref (j) - OPNAVINST 3500.39C - ORM policy This gives the guidelines for how to do ORM. While it doesn't explicitly cite an individual requirement for ORM submission for things like skydiving, it establishes commands as having the authority for requiring such. I still think it's simply a matter of submitting your ORM plan to your chain of command and then you're done. I think the CO can generally say no to whatever you are going to do, but he had better have a good reason, and a quick perusal of the instructions suggests he shouldn't. My advice - best to submit the ORM chit as your notice of intent and a "cover your butt" in case something goes south.

Ray, Recurrency isn't that big of a deal - I'm stateside and I have probably a dozen recurrency jumps in my total of about 65 now. I just don't get down to the DZ as often as I'd like, but it's good having a coach/instructor jump every once in a while anyway. As for keeping your A-license, pay your USPA membership every year and you keep it for good. As far as talking to your command, my recommendation is to be above board and notify your command of your intent. I simply sent in a memo up the chain of command that was my ORM plan. It said that I intend to train under instruction to earn a license, will follow the USPA regs, and avoid jumping in hazardous conditions. I highlighted some risk factors such as weather and equipment failure and stated that the above plan mitigates these risks appropriately. Never had to do anything more and never heard a word to suggest I shouldn't go jump, even after I hit a tree on #5 and had to go get seen multiple times, including an MRI to make sure I got fixed up right. If they tell you no, you can always ask why, and it may be due to some misinformation. I'm not suggesting to buck the system, but oftentimes a statistical comparison between skydiving and motorcycle riding does the trick. I also put up my chit for riding a motorcycle and never had issues there either. To me, it's worth covering my butt in case anything bad happens. I wouldn't want there to be some reason that my family has to get into an argument over SGLI payout while they are dealing with the fact that they have to bury me. Thanks for your service, V/R Thomas

Have you seen how awesome the world looks from up high? In the words of Ferris, stop and look around once in a while. Canopy flight lets you take a respite and just look at things. Yes, be watching for traffic, make sure you aren't drifting too far away, etc., but also appreciate that you are dangling from a piece of fabric thousands of feet up in the air. That's astounding. Go back a thousand years and someone would have killed for the chance to experience it the same way we do. My best canopy ride was the last jump (sunset load) in a flight-1 course. We were running two loads low-pass, but the pilot didn't fly level for the second load - instead he kept climbing so we got about 10,000 ft. It was cloudy all day, raining in the morning, and the gloom would not go away. When I exited, I saw a hole in the clouds near the horizon with purple and orange sky shining through, with rays of light piercing clouds at the bottom in 6 or 7 distinct shafts. It was amazing. I was the last one out, so I deployed around 6000 and turned towards that sight and just sat in brakes for a while. Nobody above me, plane was already heading down. It was just me and God. A minute of heaven.

As I recall, Stukas sometimes were equipped with sirens on them as well to augment the sound, for psychological effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCB8ZVxKqyI Now I really want one, but I'd probably get too involved in pretending to divebomb the enemy airbase...err...runway and then become a real hazard rather than just an imaginary one.

Newer Pulses (ones with the "landing upgrade" - really just some changes to a few line attachments) are much easier to land than the old ones. Don't let someone give you misinformation about how you can't flare them. My openings with a 210 are generally on heading, fairly soft, and quick - I wingload around 0.85-0.9 depending on average monthly doughnut consumption.

Well it sounds like you got the hardest part out of the way - first couple had me scared (well, every jump has me a bit scared, I won't lie). It does get a lot better. 3500 would still probably make my eyes go big, but I feel plenty confident about being able to jump out even a bit lower and having no issues. After a while, you've been practicing your poised exits enough, sometimes you just have to make the brain relax and let the body do what it knows how to do. I heartily second talking with an instructor. They can usually come up with one or more variants of making you look at the plane, like counting how many fingers they are holding up after you exit, or telling you to stare into their eyes after you are out the door.

Edit. Failed to see pg 2 on my phone. All is well.

How sensitive are you to lens-induced distortion? If you throw on a $5 pair of sunglasses from the gas station, is it a problem? I can't really notice much distortion on the G3 - it probably is there, but I'm never trying to call out azimuths or declination when I'm jumping. The only time you will likely notice anything is when using your peripheral vision, but in that case your vision is only really good for motion anyways and not accurately establishing location/distance. I haven't jumped other full face helmets, but I like the G3 and haven't had any issues with vision. Having tried on a couple others, I think the G3 has a great field of view and I don't feel as constricted as I do in my motorcycle helmet. Be sure to check sizing. I am a 7.5 hat size and run an XXL G3.

I've had no issues deploying the main subterminal with the full/normal fit combo, but I'm now questioning how reserve extraction would be with this setup. I'm assuming your comment about needing the larger PC is for the main. I am up for a repack soon and plan on going over this with my rigger and asking him to do a little testing.

Spiffy, I was in a similar range to you - flew 220s by the end of my time as a student. I opted for a Pulse 210 and an Opt 193 reserve in a V350. No kidding about the full fitting description - the main is tough to pack in, even though it's a hybrid canopy. If I could do it again, I'd probably go for a slightly bigger container, but as it is now, I can pack it reasonably well and I love the pulse. As for sizing the main, I wouldn't have started on a 170 from the 220s if someone gave me the canopy. I just finished the B-lic canopy course and was one of the guys who was standing up each landing without any problems. Some of the others were on canopies that were smaller and they were all over the place with flare timing, dumping themselves on the ground. I got comments from some of them about how I was making it look easy. Not once did I get ragged on for flying a boat, and I'm doubting anyone even noticed how big my main was. Personally, I really like my 210 and don't think I'm going to downsize anytime soon. I love canopy flight and the larger sized pulse lets me float a lot longer than everyone else. I am usually the last one to land. In fact, I have to talk to the TIs on each load to let them know I'll be in the area and have no issues with staying out of their way. I figure I'm paying $25 either way, so I might as well get the most of it.

This place is awesome - second week in a row I've had a particular question and there is already a discussion ongoing that I can jump into and start asking questions. I normally jump in Aasics running shoes. I've been wondering lately about the sole and how good it is for jumping. The cushioning is relatively good, and there aren't very prominent ridges. I normally go out to the LZ before a jump and slide my feet around on the ground, just to check that they aren't grabbing too much for some reason. Lately, I've been wondering if there aren't even better choices for footwear. It seems the hip thing to do these days for walking and running is to go to a minimalist type shoe. Admittedly, I actually like them for cruising around town (about to get a set of merrel trail shoes), but I started thinking about how it would be jumping in them - my conclusion was, fun, but not prudent (especially at my level of experience), considering there isn't much benefit other than novelty. With the potential compressive forces on a bad landing, it seems like more cushion = better, and skate shoes have been mentioned in many circles. Is there a consensus on which shoes or shoe types offer the utility for jumping? One thing I don't hear much about is ankle support. Skate shoes don't offer much, and any non-hightop tennis shoe isn't much better. It almost seems like a set of chucks with a fatter sole would be ideal. Thoughts?

Good perspective on the permutations - and that's just an illustration without including all the variance each element adds (how many different ways can something significantly change the way you fly?). I am very interested in this topic, being an aspiring camera flyer. I'm still very new, so not even to the 200 jump minimum to start considering it. I'm not sure I'll even have the requisite skills by the time I get to 200, and then what the progression is that I should work on. Obviously, I will be talking to camera flyers at my DZ, but I would like to start understanding all the different aspects of jumping the different camera types. Ultimately, I would like to run a DSLR and try to take photos of other people under canopy on flocking jumps, but my thought was that starting out with a much smaller action camera doing simpler stuff would be the way to go. It sounds like the safety precautions for both should be roughly the same. At the very least, even if not quite as necessary for the small camera, it would be good to get into the practice/training for the larger camera.

Andy, forgive me, but I have to join the dogpile. For full disclosure, I am a new jumper - 3 years and 50 or so jumps. I am by no means someone who knows much about jumping. Now consider, when you are cruising through the landing pattern, there is someone like me out there on a 210 trying his best to safely float down and just hit the LZ without any bumps. How do you think it affects my ability to do what I want if you come crossing through the pattern, fly in, near, or around me going much faster and a higher descent rate? It scares the crap out of me, and I don't know you from Adam. I don't know how much control you have, whether you see me, and then I go into panic mode because there is a canopy near me. Maybe you plan on me continuing straight and slow, but I make a quick avoidance maneuver, and now that space you had picked out is closing down because I just turned into where you are going. Remember, I'm new and stupid, and maybe my decision is the wrong one to compound the problem, or maybe it's the right one as far as I know it because I have no idea where you are really going to end up. At the very least, my pattern is now screwed up and I'm forced to try and correct, which makes my landing that much more difficult. At worst, well...I think we all know... So, hopefully things have changed since the initial posts. Just consider that you can't have the mindset that things are going to go according to plan with those other canopies around. Remember there are guys like me out there just trying to get by, doing our best to be safe and predictable, and trying to get better despite our ineptitude, weakness, fear, etc. Give us a break and sit your place in line in the pattern or go hop and pop if you want free reign of the LZ. Now, as for the F/A-18 analogy. I'm no flight instructor, but I'm pretty dang sure that the guy in charge would go follow NATOPS, and he is not going to short cycle some guy and dump the manual all because, "this guy is really good, and he doesn't need those pre-reqs." The pilot either has the required training or he doesn't. If I'm going to put him in charge of a $50M aircraft, I am not going to worry too much about a few $100K extra for training. Might be that he learns something. Fact is, much like in Naval Aviation, the rules and best practices in the skydiving community have been developed over many years by many people with much experience. To ignore the benefit of these rules and best practices is foolish. Choosing your own way over conventional wisdom may work sometimes for some people, but not all the time for all the people, and not even all the time for some of the people. Success-based planning kills.

Altitude awareness - it's a common term but a complex concept. I was reminded last weekend how very simple differences and things you aren't used to can really change your perspective. I am accustomed to having clouds, checking their altitude on the way up so I have some simple reference points to have in the back of my mind during the dive. Sunday was completely clear. Not a cloud in sight. I had my usual gear - analog hand alti and audible. At about 8k ft I started getting ground rush. It felt like I hadn't been in the sky very long. I hadn't heard the audible at all yet. And I start panicking, seeing ground coming faster. Things still looked pretty darn small, and I tapped my altimeter a few times and saw the needle was moving, but I was stuck in a moment of indecision. As I went through 7k, I was questioning how high I really was and at what point I'd just go straight to reserve if I did end up really low. I figured the chance of my analog and audible both failing unconservative at the same time was very small. But, staring at the ground, I thought, why wasn't I pulling already? Well, I didn't want to actually be pulling at 7k and end up with AFF/tandems falling through me. Was basically locked onto alti at this point and checking the ground, making sure things didn't look too close. All these thoughts were going through my head in about 5 seconds. Finally at 5k, I deployed the main, then heard the audible for the normal 4.5k tone. Turns out everything was working just fine and I was freaking out over nothing but a misperception. Without the sky looking the way I was used to, I was focusing, probably staring, at the ground, and noticed changes in scale a bit more than I usually do. It really distorted my normal altitude awareness. I imagine it's even easier with gear distractions. There's a reason you don't want to change too many things too quickly and keep things as consistent as possible. Your brain relies on pattern recognition for a lot of its decision-making, and when something doesn't match the expected pattern, you can get all sorts of confused

Thanks for the replies everyone, and thanks for the correction - I felt a bit of a dunce realizing that my naming error probably causes confusion. I have decided after some more research and some info from here that I will forgo bringing my rig. If the weather is nice, I will rent and try a jump there, but more than likely I will decide to see other sights. That means I will have to return in Summer '15 while my parents are still there and bring my rig then. That or I can figure out a way to do some leave without pay from work and go there this next Summer. Why wait, right? Anyone know about running video? If I go in Summer '15, I should have enough jumps, experience, training (if all goes according to plan), but I guess I should email them to ask about the local rules.

I read the 6 reviews here on DZ.com - sounds like a nice spot, and I will have an opportunity to go there over the winter. My question is, who here has jumped over there, and do you think it's worth bringing your rig for only a day of jumping (maybe 2 jumps based on how busy it sounds)? Additionally, I'm wondering what the weather will be like in late December / early January - I will be there for two weeks, not sure if it's jumpable there at that time. Last question - what's the LZ like? I'm used to having a relatively open area to land in (nothing so enormous as Elsinore), so I'm a bit tentative about going somewhere unfamiliar where I have to land on a postage stamp.

Cutaway: Reset button (can do some kind of iconic text or image if well known or one you like) Reserve: Power button (circle with the line through the top - (I), or Hourglass symbol) Or do simple block red Nintendo text on gray pillows, to make them look like this: http://www.lifewithoutpants.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nintendoreset.jpg

Debbi, I'll second what has been said here quite a bit. 1. Nervous is ok (even good) - I am newly licensed, but jumped enough that people still laugh when I tell them I'm scared of the door. All my exits have been spot on so far - those nerves keep me sharp and focused. 2. Almost = didn't. You almost died when you crossed the street this morning, but you missed the car that came through at 25mph 10 seconds later. You almost died when you drank that water, but it narrowly missed going into your lungs and drowning you. You seem to have faired well, and much better than I did in a much less difficult situation where I ran into a tree. Consider how, in a difficult and scary situation, you performed adequately to get to the ground safely. Now, could you improve on your skills? Sure, so then in a similarly difficult situation (i.e., if it happens again), you definitely have the ability to cope. "Almost" should be your reminder to focus on doing well, but it shouldn't make your decisions. While past performance doesn't guarantee future success, consider this a great experience in making you better able to handle whatever comes your way. 3. You've had a unique experience seemingly tailored just for you - you overcame a significant challenge without major injury. Make the most of it. Firstly, take away confidence in yourself. Secondly, and equally important, sit back and do a thorough evaluation of why you do or don't want to continue skydiving. Really ask yourself what the cost/benefit trade-off is. Your experience is a good instigator for this kind of self-reflection. Make your decision after reviewing all the factors, and not based only on any one emotion, action, event, or thought. Put everything on the table and figure out what it all means to you. I did that, and still do, on a regular basis, and after all the reflection, I keep coming back to kiss the air.

At what point would you say that the initial "this must not be right" feeling from inexperience becomes the "this must not be right" feeling because it's not right? So far, I have jumped my own packjob 5 times, and each time I had this lingering unease, mostly about grouping the lines and flaking. Never had a problem so far, but I did have one harder than normal opening because I think I didn't get the slider all the way down to the stops. I'm definitely of the mindset that if something feels wrong, stop and reset (e.g., pulled myself off a load when I didn't feel all together one time), but how much of the general nervousness vs specific concern are you talking about with this particular incident?

This argument can be made for any safety device - they are all unnecessary so long as everything goes according to plan. They can even sometimes be dangerous. Airbags can kill you. So can seat belts. Would you drive a car without either one? To me, it depends on the circumstance. When I am just moving the car from the driveway into the garage, I don't bother to buckle up, because the risks are small and the safety device is mostly irrelevant. I'm sure I could find some people who refuse to even start up a car before they have belted up. It doesn't mean they're necessarily a worse driver or should not operate a vehicle. They just have a different judgment when it comes to risk mitigation. When cruising down the highway, I will definitely have my seat belt on, because it increases my odds of survival if things go terribly and unexpectedly wrong. Do I expect to get in a horrific accident? No, otherwise I wouldn't get in the car. But, to help my odds, I will not go cruising down the highway without a seat belt. Same reasons I won't ride my motorcycle without full gear (full face helmet, jacket, gloves, boots, pants). I don't expect to crash, but if I do, I want the odds to be slightly more in my favor. I passed up a couple of fun rides last year because I had crashed a couple days prior on the track and had concerns about the integrity of my helmet. I opted to send it in for inspection and wait to get it back instead of throwing it on and going out with friends. I didn't expect to need a helmet because I didn't expect to crash, but I wouldn't ride without having one in which I had confidence. Because someone is more cautious does not necessarily make them less capable, but instead may simply be that he has different priorities. By the way, I won't jump without an AAD. I also won't jump when my blood sugar is way off, or if I'm too tired. I also won't jump when it's too windy. So there are a lot of factors that I depend on to make my decision to jump. I think the ultimate question is, where do you draw the line on what you depend on?

Thanks - it sounds like my concerns are justified, and I agree with you that I should stick to the goggles for some time. Already don't want to change much if anything at my level of experience. I'm kind of surprised about people jumping with no eyepro at all and not being bothered by it. Maybe my eyes are just sensitive. I can't really imagine tracking my motorcycle doing 120 mph with the face shield up. I admit that it would be really nice at some point odwn the line to be able to use the M-frames with a VR28 lens on overcast days.

I have only ever jumped skyeyes or similar soft plastic goggles. How do the non-gasketed sunglasses work if flying belly with the head up. I feel like wind would be whipping across your eyes and cause some serious discomfort/tears. I am very interested, though, if it's not too bad, to know if Oakley M-Frames with a strike or hybrid lens work well. I have a bunch of pairs and tons of different lenses (mostly clear) from my other hobbies. What are some things to look out for using sunglasses vice goggles? What straps do people use? Is it something that I'd want to try in a tunnel first (provided they allow it)? I'm already getting a full face for at least the winter time and won't be using that until I have some tunnel time on it. I would also like to try the sunglasses there as well if it's going to be significantly different from the cheapie goggles. Thanks!