ShotterMG

"You understand that you have as little as 3 seconds between 1000 ft and the 500 ft level where you yourself acknowledge it doesn't matter any more? So you must leave some margin for error there and I am curious how long you think it will really take to get stable and how much margin for error you leave yourself in the event you can't? How exactly will you divvy up those 3 seconds? And Wendy made a very good point too in this regard. " It's a fair question and worth clarifying. Don't picture someone falling away and trying to get stable. At that altitude I am talking about a tenth of a second. That is, pull right, snap body around so container is up and pull left. Very quick. And I would literally pull no matter what after about a half a second. I am sorry if this sounds like an unreasonable expectation. You and Wendy worry about some things, I worry about other things. It's not black and white. There are a bunch of trade offs. We all reserve the right to make decisions based on our individual experiences. I happen to have a ton of sub terminal experience. Does that matter? I think it does. You guys might think differently depending on your own experience. But my mind is always open. I have thought about RSL's long and hard. It's not easy. I am always willing to change my mind and I welcome the debate. But I do think it's a reasonably debatable issue and RSL'S should remain a choice. "And you believe you can do that in a consistently repeatable way?" Absolutely!

I think the seat belt analogy is a bad one. In almost all instances, at any speed, a seat belt is likely to make a big and positive difference in survivability. RSL’s are a personal choice because they are only likely to be very effective in a small window of circumstances, and can actually cause problems in many other situations. Personally, if I am cutting away low, like 1000 feet, I would much prefer not to have an RSL. It’s my last chance and I want damn well to make it my best chance. That means cutting away and rolling over, head high to my belly for a clean reserve deployment. Below 800 feet or so I might wish I had an RSL. Below 500 feet, on a standard non skyhook RSL, it wont matter anyway. The entire rest of the skydive there is no benefit in my own risk assessment to have an RSL. And in the case of a canopy wrap, a snagged or misrouted RSL, a high speed spinning cut away, or other complications it will only be a detriment. Of course, anything can happen to anybody no matter how experienced you are. I could not find my handle or I could end up crazy low in the basement. But my personal risk assessment has these fears outweighed by the other factors. I personally want as much control over the situation as possible when it comes to my last chance. And having made the decision not to use an RSL I do what I can to minimize the risk. I use an AAD. I use the one hand per handle method for emergency procedures. I practice emergency procedures every day and I maintain my gear on a daily basis. I have very strict hard decks and I have experience in cutting away low. Of course, the holier than thou DZ.comers are going to flame away. They will call me dangerous and say I have “Mad skillz”. But remember, using an RSL is a choice for a reason. I choose not to. Everybody is different. I prefer to take the risks I am comfortable with and be free to choose not to take certain other risks.

How do you know how he treats them? Just calling them a "student" doesnt make it so. I happen to agree with Gow. It's ridiculous to call these one time tandem riders students. However, when I train a tandem I always show them all of the components of the rig, I show them how it works and why. I go over airplane emergencies, I inform them how we spot, I give them an altimeter and train them to pull. I inform them on freefall skills, how to steer, control and flare the canopy. And then there is Doug, he will self righteously exclaim "they are students not passengers" and yet he doesn't even teach them to pull the parachute! He says he puts them on the creeper...unless, of course, he doesnt in which case they get"whatever" training they get. I teach AFF. Sometimes others do parts of the training. But I always make sure they get complete training every single time. If the tandems were students how could you put them up without all of the training every time? Doug doesn't. And that's because they arn't really students. Being on the Internet and hautily calling them Students and feeling superior doesn't make them students. When it comes to being a good Tandem Master the proof is in the pudding no matter what you call them.

...which is why the fars only say you need a duel parachute piggy back harness. There is no mention of what kind of training you need or that you have to jump. If you don't like the winds or get a bad feeling you can ride down. No far says you have to jump! That would be stupid.

Wrong again Chucky boy! Observer rides are a part of sport parachuting. Always have been. Observers are given a parachute, shown how to use it and put on a plane. Every skydiver and person on the plane has the choice to Jump or not once the door is opened. Nobody has to jump. Which is why nobody has ever been cited for it.

An observer is in no way engaged in the jumping process and MUST use an approved seat. I've been over it dozens of times with my FSDO and individual field folks over the years and this was always their interpretation. And have you ever seen or heard of an operation being cited for breaking this interpretation off the rule? Observer rides happen at almost every dropzone. Many dz's have FAA people on site. If this is "always there interpretation" one would think many dz's would have been cited for this violation. Has it ever happened that we know of?

You are over thinking it and being too nit picky. Not all rules and regulations in all things are written perfectly to cover all eventualities. The idea is, in a plane converted for skydiving operations, occupants not using a seat need to have a parachute on. For example, sometimes you fly to a demo planning to land with the plane at the demo site first. You secure the area or whatever and then you get on the plane for the actual jump. By your thinking the ride over to the site would be illegal. But no one would think that. It's simply industry standard for people in a skydiving plane who are sitting on the floor wear a parachute. That is the intent of the rule and it covers observer rides just as would for your ride over to another airport.

Hey Quade, You are again the winner of the "Most Hollow Threat of the Year Award" here on dropzone.com. Great job doing nothing! You're one of the best at it.

You are trying to say your experience doesn't matter and you never meant to overstate your experience. But many times you have directly implied that you are a rated instructor and have given out advice as such. If you really want to own up to your bullshit and be honest maybe it's time to explain or apologize for statements like this, " You do the job at hand and your paying me to teach you and make improvements based upon what I see. And the bottom line is I really don't have or nor can I do much if I see your eyeballs or not! " Exactly who has paid you to teach them to skydive?

Haha. Wow. I have nothing to add. Your post really speaks for itself. And your depth of knowledge is impressive. This statement, "Stay within 15 feet of any and all evaluators is most coach instructors REQUIRMENTS. From exit to wave off, and thow in a few funkey moves,... " Really shows off your technical knowledge of the course. I stand corrected. You are super informed, obviously. FYI... I had nothing to do with your conversation about SNE and operating hours. I think you had that argument with yourself. Anyway, it's great you want to rehash all of your own threads but you should stick to one topic at a time, me thinks. Plus, your knowledge of the coach course is so rich and detailed I really would just like to hear more from you on that topic. We are all so lucky to have you as a resource! Thanks so much. :)

Also consider the fact ChrisD doesn't know what he is talking about. He obviously is not rated and is only guessing what a coach course is. It actually is 3 days of intensive learning about how to teach students. If you're not already a teacher you will learn a ton of valuable information. You will be tested on 2 very simple air evaluations and you will practice ground preps. But the course is 99% classroom learning and 1% test which is a given you will pass. The course is all about teaching and has very little to do with your air skills.

***Just last weekend a 60 year old dude who was drunk as eff told me he had a Mae West on a round, was trying to "flick" the line over since it was so loose as he was spiraling down , but didn't cut it away because he didn't have a reserve. This was after hanging off a Cessna strut at 1,000'. He said he landed perfectly, stood it up. Alrighty then... [/ I would bet this one is true. Sounds like typical Cessna DZ antics. Especially 20 years ago. You owe him a beer.

Yet another lengthy and entirely incoherent post from Chris D. Dude, what is wrong with you? Get off the computer and spend some time outside. I would say get a job but obviously you can't hold a job. Take up finger painting or something. Nothing you say makes any sense at all. Good grief.

I wouldn't say she messed up. Looks like she had a hard pull. She stuck with it and got it out. Good job!

You will be fine. Any monkey can throw a drogue.

DSE, you are a relative noob to the sport. You should stop padding your log book and stop acting like a skygod. You don't know what you don't know. Maybe stop talking and start listening for a change. It might keep you from getting yourself all busted up again. Your self righteous bullshit is intolerable. Having line twists on his first wingsuit jump doesn't mean a goddamn thing about his instructors or anything else. Lighten up! My God. You are a snake oil salesman and people are catching on to your narcissistic crap. Give it a rest. Please. PA removed. One warning.

The problem with checking it is the airlines will only insure it up to about 1200 bucks. That's a huge loss if they lose the bag. So I always carry the it on the plane and never put it in a gear bag. This is because it looks bigger in a bag and sometimes they will try and make you gate check it. I gate checked my parachute once and they actually lost it. Now, the big problem for me is I really like to bring two rigs. In that case I ship the gear in advance.

Haha! Yeah that's so fucked up. Balling up is likely to kill everyone on the plane, on the ground and ieveryone in the surrounding area. You yourself will most certainly die if you ever ball up! You would have to be a goddamn fucking lunatic moron to ever ball up! Everyone on the Internet knows that! Great argument you have going on her. You are saving lives! However....for arguments sake...DSE says Germain's video proves balling up won't stop a spin. Unfortunately the video never shows him balling up at all. He brings his arms in but his legs are straight out the whole time as far as I can see. Nor does Germain say he ever balled up. The idea, I think, these mis guided baby killing fools had with the idea of balling up....is to take out the propellor effect that one limb or a bunch of fabric can create. Had Germain balled up he certainly would have stopped flat spinning. It would have turned into a much more controllable and slower downward roll with an easier opportunity to get out of. At the least it's a position he could have pulled from and ended the skydive. Which is not to say the delta track they taught us in tandem training isn't a much better technique. But had Germain tucked everything in tight he would not have kept flat spinning. It would have turned into a slow roll and he could pitch whenever he was pilot chute up. I don't see how that fact is debatable. But I have a feeling the next 50 posts from dumb and dumber is about to illustrate it for me. Thanks! Great talking to you guys! Super fun. :)

Congratulations! Your simple question has drawn out three of the biggest blithering idiots on dz.com and sent them on a moron-off, idiot showdown! Hahhaa! Don't learn skydiving from the Internet!.... Should be the take away message here.

You sound like a whuffo. What do you think will happen? One of your parachutes will explode off your back and rip you off the bike in an instant? Thats ridiculous. There is no reason a handle would get pulled or a closing loop would break. But if it did not much would happen and you could pull over and stop on a bike in about two seconds. Now, getting to the dz, going up in the plane and getting out without a single gear check; that's fucking stupid. Really stupid. I would have given him the bowling speech.

Exactly how is this different then any other hybrid, or rodeo, CRW, or a myriad of other different stunts skydivers do? You sound ridiculous. You're a a relatively newb instructor ass kissing on dorkzone.com to make yourself sound knowledgable. More dangerous, are newbie instructors like you taking up students. You have no ability to think for yourself. You just regurgitate the bulkshit on here hoping Dave Lepka or Bill Vonn will pat you on the ass. , You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you should hand in your ratings because you can't fix stupid.

Get a better instructor. One who wont let you go in while you're both spinning!

Can you explain how "touching a hackey" is an integral part of your emergency procedures training? Thank you.

maybe he figures he has the same right to use the machine as some no-neck meathead cop and doesn't give a fuck if he is in your way.

I agree with what you and Doug are saying. I would never repeat something like that if it wasn't a fact. The owner knows what happened I am sure she can explain. Why dont you ask her? You should at least ask her before you excoriate me for telling the truth. I will be there sometime this summer. I like the place. I will repeat the truth in front of the owner, Josh, Don, Steve or whoever the fuck is standing there. Wouldn't you?