IrishDave

Well spotted! Niamh... problem solved. PS: I did a lot of research on these guys last year (don't know why I completely forgot about them) and people who own them like them.

What I'm worried about is that it's going to be an injury or worse before people start to think about this seriously

Hi Niamh, A few FF suit manufacturers will do custom designs. Tonfly (who's suits are amazing ) do custom designs but they're pretty damn expensive: http://tonfly.com/customize-your-suit-with-our-designer_2632388.html ) However, I'd go with a "learner" FF suit for the time being. The difference in my first FF suit and the Tonfly was chalk and cheese. The new Tonfly suit is extremely responsive and I certainly wouldn't have been able for it when I started. I'd stick with a cheap(er) one first before splashing out on a custom one. I'm aware that even a starter one will be custom for you though ;) Finally, knowing you personally, I'd avoid anything that's even a little big baggy.

That's a good read DSE, thanks for that. We're venturing a little off topic though. I think what the OP and many others here (including myself) are looking for is input from S&TAs or those who have already implemented a policy at their DZ as to the position of steep trackers/angle flyers in the exit order. At your D what is the policy? @Ron, you mention that trackers go out somewhere the middle in your scenario, is that all trackers (flat and steep)? If so, what is the reasoning behind it, what order do multiple trackers get out in, and what are the defined flight paths of trackers? Thanks for all the input already.

I'm still a baby skydiver so please take this with a pinch of salt. I think this is an important conversation to have and I'm glad you brought it up. My last 50 jumps have mostly been angle tracking jumps. This is what I'm talking about here. Medium/Advanced level of jumpers. BOTH DZs I did these at, we got out first. I assumed the reason was as follows. 1) We get out and immediately turn off jump run 90 degrees. It's relatively flat and fast so we have everyone together. This gets us well clear of jump run. 2) When everyone is together, we begin getting steeper and steeper. We then turn 90 degrees right again so the remainder of our jump is DOWN the jump run. We've already got our initial distance away from jump run in the first 15 seconds of the jump and the remainder, which I think is the key part of deciding exit order, we're relatively steep and not covering much distance at all. It's almost vertical. Assuming everyone opens at a normal altitude, we're going to be down first and much further down jump run. I'm aware that wind drift will carry belly jumpers down jump run too but we'll have that compensated by the horizontal distance we got off jump run in the first half when we were flatter and faster. There is still some forward movement here but not anywhere near your typical "sunset tracking jump bigway with all experience levels and people in RW suits w/booties". The DZ that I just got back from, there were two tracking groups. The first (more experienced) got out first and tracked west of a N/S jump run, we got out second and tracked east. There was MASSIVE separation between all groups on the jump. The belly and HD jumpers all opened ON jump run where the two tracking groups opened OFF jump run to the east and west with LOTS of distance between groups. I can draw out a sketch of this if it will help. Obviously, had we been out last, we wouldn't have made the turn down jumprun (bear in mind the second turn wasn't exactly parallel to jump run either, just to be on the safe side). *** Another important thing thing I believe we need to understand is that on an angle/tracking/atmo (whatever the hell it's called) jump, the base/leader is on their belly and controls the direction. I've seen so many "flat tracking" jumps where the leader is on their back and cannot see the direction they are going at all. I still to this day have no idea why this is done. It seems ridiculously dangerous to me. I don't believe for a second that anyone is a good enough back tracker to be able to see out the back of their head and to make sensible direction decisions. Even if they can still see the plane for the whole jump. ESPECIALLY if they are the group out last. If I'm on my belly, I can direct the group AWAY from a group I can see under us, away from any dangerous deviations back ONTO jump run or direct us away from a turn back onto jump run. (Which I've seen MANY times with people on their back) *** With that said, I'm definitely open to hearing from more experienced jumpmasters and trackers (steep). Obviously, I want to be as safe as possible and from my understanding of wind drift, steep trackers getting out first seems to be the safest option. If it is not, I really want to know. If a tracking group gets out last, there's a much higher risk of landing off unless a deviation from a straight track 90 degrees from jump is flown. I'm not a DZO, S&TA or an instructor but I really want my tracking (steep) jumps to be safe. If what I'm doing now is not safe, I would love to know this sooner rather than later. Angle jumps ARE different to a traditional tracking jump as we all know it. I think it's important that we don't lump them into the same category.

If you go to Vimeo, you can do an advanced search. Simply append the following to your search string: &advanced=1 For example: https://vimeo.com/search?q=skydiving&advanced=1 You can then filter videos by license type. Some videos you can use under creative commons. More info on that here: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ Good article on it here: http://socialtimes.com/vimeo-makes-creative-commons-licenses-available-to-all-users_b17281 Here's what the different licence types/filters mean you can do with them:

This is absolutely BRILLIANT. Thank you so much for this Pops. It's helped me understand a LOT. I have to admit, I was in the "I'm falling faster HD and pulling lower so should be out first" camp (although never did as our DZ exit order is strictly enforced. At least now I understand and can actually visually SEE why I was wrong).

OK, it looks like we've decided to start in New York and have a tentative plan. Boogies are no longer a necessity. Unfortunately, we can't start from Boston (don't ask!) so we have to make our way north then west. From New York we intend to hit: Sky's The Limit The Ranch Jumptown Pepperell SNE Then we need to make it to Chicago from there. Can any of you guys recommend any good turbine DZs, open during the week and have a good group of people between SNE and Chicago? I've checked the map on DZ.com and can't seem to decide. You've given me some pretty awesome advice so far so hopefully you can help me finalize this. Thanks so much for all the help so far guys, I don't know what I'd do without you :) PS: We totally would have went the other way, I've been to Tiki and the suckiest thing about this whole thing is that we MUST be home the day before tiki starts :(

This is actually some excellent advice. Thanks GreatGazoo. I'll look into planning something around this route.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Just sorting our dates. It's looking like we'll be starting July 17th and we can actually stay for ~4-6 weeks. (Gutted to be missing the 4th of July boogies, but I might be convinced to head over myself first early to make one.) I really want to head back to SNE and probably will at this rate. It's one of my favorite DZs that I've been to in the US, but I haven't been to many. I've actually only been to Z-Hills, SNE and Clewiston. Don't have to hit boogies, but summerfest is an essential so things will have to be organized around that. When I have proper dates, I'll figure out some events and DZs that we could potentially pass through and get your opinions on those. The time limit rule (3 months I believe) for posting events on the forum for that time frame is nearly here so that will probably help a lot. Thanks again for all the replies. You guys rock.

Thanks Everyone! NWflyer, after Nicaragua, I promised myself I'd get to LP one day in the next two years. This might be my chance :) Tiki boogie is out of the question as it's too late in August (back to school and work) So it's looking like a start off from NY (the ranch)>Ohio (for LP) /Chicago (for summerfest) then onwards to MO looking for places to jump (non Cessna DZs please) on the way. Does this sound reasonable within 3-4 weeks? Again, my geography is pretty bad, does this sound logical? Thanks for your help and advice guys, PS: We're low jump numbers. I'm only (going to be) on 400 jumps and my partner with an A license. Maybe B. Not sure if that factors into the boogies.

Hi guys, Myself and a friend are going to attempt a one month road trip from either Boston or New York to Missouri. We'll probably start mid July but dates are flexible. I'm not from the US and my US geography is a little sketchy so I'm hoping you can help. On our trip, we're trying to fit in as many DZs and/Or boogies along the way. Summerfest is going to be an essential in late July. Can anyone recommend an itinerary at this stage? Start in NY (The Ranch), drive up to Boston/Main (SNE) then across to SDC for Summerfest? Any alternatives you think would be better? Any boogies in the July/August time frame that are absolute must attends? Finally, is there ANYTHING around Missouri? Last time I was there, I called the "local" dropzones and there was nothing even remotely close to Springfield there. The goal is to squeeze in as many boogies or different DZs in ~5-6 weeks. Bear in mind, we'll be driving, not flying. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Have to agree with the others here on their "into the wind" approach. I've only put about 300 jumps on mine (lightly loaded) and have found that "balling up" (reducing body drag) and a slight tug on rears along with a little breaks gives me the best glide into wind. Wind behind me, I'll go into 1/4 breaks and "get big", that includes holding my arms out wide to catch wind and to combine the breaks as well as turning my booties "sideways" if I'm in my RW suit to catch as much wind as possible. Sometimes, I'll leave the slider open too. However, in the past 100 jumps or so, I've started to open higher and higher so I don't have to deal with this so much. ~400 jumps is nowhere near experienced, but I've seen enough stupid shit now to only jump in smaller groups and to open higher. The more jumps I do, the more I realize I don't know as much as I thought I did. Finally, I've done two intermediate and advanced canopy classes which really showed me how to get the best out of my particular canopy. I'd HIGHLY recommend doing the same. You'll be VERY surprised at what a Spectre can actually do when given the right advice and some altitude to experiment with.

Some excellent advice there. My FF coach gave me pretty much the same advice. He explained that (in as nice a way as possible) that the 618 was a very technical suit and that as cool as they look and as much as I wanted one, it's too technical for my skill level right now. I'm so glad you backed that opinion up. I was already struggling to fly at lower speeds in the tunnel, a 618 would have made it worse. Last weekend, at a tunnel in the UK, I saw a REALLY thin and small girl wearing one. She was learning to sitfly and she was really struggling. Thanks for the info. VERY much appreciated.