BryanCampau

Heard that! It hasn't been productive. Fly what you like to fly. But most importantly, lets go fly. See you guys out there!

Haha gruezi, you seem a bit fussy. I'm sorry the "facts" you presented didn't persuade anyone. Did you really expect them to?

Haha just when you think the thread is dead we have one more show up to try to justify their preference. Gruezi, I'm wondering how you feel the results of a competition based on speed that was designed by squirrel collectively with Red bull is the only measure for the quality of a wing suit? I'm glad that you really like your Squirrel suits, keep buying them. You aren't convincing anyone of anything. I'm really not sure why you are so concerned that I have a distaste for them and a favor for Phoenix Fly.

Yep, what he said. People who do both will attach an s clip so they can quickly undo the bungee for when they put the wingsuit on the rig.

Haha the feeling is mutual.

Skow, you're quite the comedian.... You're probably one good post away from getting a free Vietnamese flap flap. You should post again. Keep buying your Squirrel suits and I'm going to keep buying my Phoenix fly suits. I don't really care how you justify buying from them. We live in a world where we all don't have to agree. Arguing brands is about as fun as arguing religion. No one is convincing any one here.

Haha it says something about both me and manufacturer. At the time I only had the i, t, and r to compare to. And those were rentals. I knew there was quality issues but thought it was the norm among wingsuits. I was wrong and found that for me - Phoenix Fly has what I want in a suit. I don't mind waiting. I always have enough wingsuits around to fly. Try brands and put your money with the one you prefer. And if possible try before you buy. And try different brands if you're feeling up for it.

Haha fair enough!

Only one brand is buying athletes. Haha it's not hard to see. The good pilots are going to win if they fly and train in equivalent sized performance suits. The data you refer to is misleading to any kind of superiority. You're clinging to it to justify your brand preference. That doesn't make you right or wrong. You like what you like. But if you want specifics as to why they are referred to as Vietnamese flap flaps. Every suit I ever owned from squirrel (hatch, funk1, funk2, freak, colugo, aura2) all either kind of fit or fit well when I first got it but then 40-50 jumps in the material relaxed too much and became more of a baggy fit. Freak has major inflation issues on its back. I emailed them asking if there was a design issue or something maybe forgotten on my suit. They told me no, I just don't know how to back fly and that the tail inflates perfectly. The funk1, slow as all hell. The funk2, normal speed but it flaps just like the freak does if it's not maxed out. Epicene, went out of symmetry in less than 40 jumps and had a built in turn. Multiple others at the dz had the same issue. Squirrel claims no fault and blames container fit. Rigger inspected and lines were in trim but said it's an issue with poor quality f111 canopies. I do refer to them as Vietnamese flap flaps, and that's what they are. I've been disappointed by every suit I've owned from them. Had 500+ jumps on their suits before I tried and loved Phoenix Fly suits. Again I say, we all prefer different things. You can justify your preference any way you want. We all have different perspectives. Buy whatever you want to spend your money on. I don't like the brand you fly - and that's why I quit buying them.

Yes, yes. We should take away all the credit from the pilots that bust their ass and say it was the brand. Wingsuit technology is close amongst brands in terms of the performance suits.

Point of view is everything. I've had multiple serious quality issues with squirrel. And I've had zero quality issues with PF. And I've had late orders from both.

quality issues vs. lead time issues. I'll wait a little extra time for the Phoenix Fly product which I enjoy flying the most. And you guys can get your vietnamese flap flaps early. Have fun! :)

I've never had a check made out to me by Phoenix Fly or received anything from them I didn't pay for. A rep isn't an employee nor a sponsorship. But I'm a proud supporter of their products. :) The comical thing is you comparing them to Boeing and being aeronautical. It would be comical if you said that about any brand. They have all earned a place in the market. Competition between brands is healthy and ultimately we all benefit from the improvements made to suits.

Hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha god damn their marketing is incredible.

flying steep is probably what is getting them into flat spins to begin with. haha

That's some good information and it appears to be much safer than I thought.

Isn't that more correlated to wing loading? I've only had canopies dive on me if i load it 1.4 or higher. I'm not saying the profile of the canopy is excluded. For example a storm 120 for me takes off in a dive when i have line twist. A storm 135 will fly straight. Heck a reserve will dive if your in line twist and you load it around 1.4. I think the benefit of the f111 low pack volume wingsuit specific mains is to get your wing loading to something more manageable for wingsuiting. I hadn't heard anything bad about the Pilot 7s but haven't flown one yet. They seem like a good option on the market.

Yea, neat concept and i'm sure the benefits in performance are there. Just as others have said, i'd be worried about my handles getting sucked in.

My last post on this thread since my responses are obviously just fueling your antics and no one is benefiting from reading this. Keep drinking the kool aid, here's the top of all three classic and both FAI verified listings. Where's the validation for your ego in this data? Well...it doesn't exist. There is 3 aspects that make up performance. Anyone can find a piece of data to support a different argument. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and everyone elses stinks! No need to get bent out of shape over it.

There's no way in heck i'm gonna downsize my container and fill it full of small, low bulk canopies to get a drag reduction to very slightly improve my performance. Base F111 canopies are a completely separate topic....the sizes are no where near comparable. I think we just have very different priorities in wingsuit flying. The Squirrel line up has significantly more large profile suits than Phoenix Fly. So how can the median be very revealing? Also there is more to performance then just glide and the posted tracks may be pilots going for speed or time. If you look at the top rankings in each category there is a healthy mix of PF, Tony, & Squirrel. I don't think your numbers are an accurate or impressive assessment of an entire brand. - I think you just really love Squirrel. And that's okay...brand wars are ugly and we are all free to fly what we like to fly. :)

0584 - I can tell you are very proud of yourself and I'd like to thank you for a good laugh. I won't get involved in the brand war discussion on this thread. GPS data is great and all but winds make or break the data. In comps they jump in close conditions to minimize the wind affect and I don't see only one brand on the podium. If you want to take wind out then take a look at who's dominating time. But regardless - the data is not conclusive. I say throw them all in a wingsuit wind tunnel with a non biased pilot and have them max out the suits in all three aspects. That would be an accurate test. We all fly what we want to and it's a good thing. All manufacturers push to improve and the sport evolves. But back to the subject of companies. I have to agree with you. I suck at landing f111 canopies and I'd say most people do. F111 is going to land like f111. There is a reason f111s are only used for low bulk and the modern non WS canopy pilot flys ZP. Sure....if you have a tiny container and you need a canopy you can squeeze in there then it is the choice for you. Now excuse me....I've got to go clean my leg straps. Haha! Never mind, I jump a storm with a low wingloading. :)

Also good questions and I can't pretend to know the correct or best answer but i'm happy to give my two cents. We must be going to different dropzones as I see more mid size suits than anything. And if you fly a mid size acro suit well then i don't see why you couldn't fly with the large suits as long as they aren't playing with the top end of their range. i'm not suggesting they fly folded in half either. And you wolol You may get more out of the flock then you would a solo but that's really asking for a slow progression in skills...and i'd be curious to hear more opinions. The second questions can be related to in the sense of asking what the downside is to going smaller with your canopy. It's significantly harder to learn on a larger suit if you skipped the steps in between. They are more significantly more sensitive. Lets say a canopy pilot wants to land down wind on a strong wind day with his sub 100 Velo but he never did it with any other canopies. For him it's probably not going to end well but think of the odds. He is far more likely to learn this quicker on a larger canopy. So how much extra time would he waste and potentially be reckless trying to learn the skill? So if you try to learn belly to back transitions in this large acro suit it may take you 50 jumps to REALLY stick them, for example. But in those 50 jumps you lose a lot of altitude and lose heading. Well then do you REALLY know where your mates are? Do they know you are coming? Oh and you may have just ended up on a solo jump as you lost a ton of altitude in the mistake. Smaller suits are more forgiving to bad body positions but you can still feel when you nail the right transition or body position. It's easier to negotiate the suits in the sky. Learning is much faster. They are safer to learn on when flying with others. Less likely to lose tons of separation from the group. Not that group jumps are the time to play with learning transitions all willy nilly. lol There's lots of things that can be said on the subject and i'm sure there is many that will chime in.

I would consider Hunter, Strix, Freak, Psycho...etc as the large acro class. Funks, Havocs....etc as mid size acro. And how quickly is too quickly is really up for discussion. I have around 700 WS jumps at the moment and i feel comfortable in the large acro suits but i probably wouldn't have felt as comfortable as I really should of if i had around 300-400 WS jumps. I had several hundred in the mid size acro suits before trying the large acro suits. I don't think going up from a Swift or any other small acro suits is adequate.

There is a massive focus on jumping to large suits quickly (particularly the large acro suits) and i'd like to open the discussion on it. I think the newer wingsuiters in the community could benefit from it and reflect on their own experiences. Yes, the new large acro suit platforms are fun...of course they are! But I would say 75%+ of the people i know that own them shouldn't be flying them. Most of them don't know how to back fly a smaller suit and are worried about getting the larger suits on their back. These aren't suits to learn on...they are suits that you should be adapting your skills from smaller suits to. Of the suits that I own/have owned - I spend more time jumping my Shadow and Carve then I do any other suits. I still set goals on my jumps and learn on both of these suits. I'd like to see a larger focus on these suits and people really learning to fly them. It would be cool to see wingsuit acro be a common thing. People forming teams and working up their skills together. Setting goals and learning fast. Less focus on hopping in a 15 way to fly a slot and more on 2 ways with more movement and lots of docks. But who cares what I think - let's get some more opinions in here and really fight about it. :)

Biting my tongue so hard....